Talk:Katatonia

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[edit] death metal

I could say that the first albums are considered death metal because they got growl vocals and because too many people consider Sweden a "death metal land" (and it's wrong), but IMHO we should however discuss the thing. I repeat, for me we could write in the article that first two albums are often considered doom/death, but death shouldn't stay in the genre box. Connacht

Their early works are doom death metal, not simply death nor doom. --Dexter prog 23:13, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I never said in the edit that they were simply death, I separated the two genres because if you want "death" in the genre box, it must be specified that it is referred only to first albums, and not those of mid-career ("death doom (early and MID)"). So I wrote "death (early)", that with "doom (early and mid)" means that in the first albums there are both death and doom, then only doom (but, I repeat, imho death is wrong) Connacht (sorry for bad English)

[edit] Alternative metal

I'm not sure I agree with tagging their music as "Alternative metal" I don't believe this genre exists. I feel that "alternative metal" was a genre created by a annoyed nu-metal fan to justify their taste in music, Katatonia is not and has never been Nu-metal I propose that "alternative Metal" be changed to "alternative Rock" and "Doom Metal". That describes their current music style much better. -CatLikeThief 17:39, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Alternative metal is a heavier form of alternative rock. So what's the point in changing it from metal to rock? --Dexter prog 18:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Even if "Alternative metal" is a genre, it does not represent Katatonia recent genre very well. I mean going from what it say on the Alternative metal page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CatLikeThief (talk • contribs) 11:50, 13 January 2007 (UTC).
Their recent genre isn't metal or even a "heavier form of rock" I'm unimpressed you have changed this back please tell me how actually are Katatonias last 2 albums "alternative metal". -CatLikeThief 08:38, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Thier last albums are a combination of alternative metal and doom metal (not simply doom because they have fast rythms, not only alt metal because they have depressive lyrics). Instead of saying what they are not, why don't you try to explain what you think they are? --Dexter prog 15:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
There is no such thing as Alternative Metal, it's a media catch all & clearly has no set sound judging by what it says on it's page. --Diabolical 17:54, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

The recent albums aren't metal by a longshot. Alternative rock is the best description.Ours18 02:20, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

They are too heavy to be considered rock, come on.... --Dexter prog 02:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Being heavy doesn't make a band metal. Especially when the band in question often bears very strong resemblances to mallcore (nu metal), which is not metal. Ours18 06:29, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
MAllcore?? Dude, Katatonia is one of the most important doom metal bands, and they still play doom metal with a more influence in heavy metal. You can not say they are mallcore... --Dexter prog 15:43, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Yep, definatly not Mallcore. Diabolical 16:12, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems that most people are happy with calling their later works Alternative rock in this discussion, unless their are anymore people to defend Katatonia's genre as "alternative metal" I will be changing this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CatLikeThief (talk • contribs) 21:03, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

They were never particularly important, although they are popular, and nowadays bear no resemblance to doom metal. Alternative rock is fine with me since it seems no one else here has ears. Ours18 21:12, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Alternative Rock makes as much sense as Alternative Metal (i.e. none). What's wrong with just having it as Metal/Rock? Diabolical 21:47, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
That should be okay. Ours18 22:18, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I'd love to say say metal/rock would be ok. But Metal/Rock is VERY vague. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CatLikeThief (talk • contribs) 22:28, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

Yes but I don't think the term Alternative is very helpful either, everything is an alternative to something and Katatonia's music is much more like late 80's/early 90's rock (Shoegaze/Indie ect) with a much heavier sound. Alternative rock/metal is usually just a phrase that the media uses to say that something doesn't have a lot of mainstream sensibilities, it's been used to describe bands from The Stooges to Slipknot, so hopefully you'll understand how vauge that is. --Diabolical

Then how about if we leave it as "doom metal" or maybe "heavy metal"-"Doom metal"? --Dexter prog 00:07, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
....except they haven't released a doom metal cd in quite a long time. Their recent albums must be covered honestly, which means one these things: mallcore, which no one will agree on; alternative rock; or alternative metal. The Encyclopaedia Metallum lists their latest albums as depressive rock, alternative rock is the closest thing to that. So that's what it should be named.Ours18 02:46, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I listened to the last album just now - well half of it, that's all I could stand - and I'd pretty much say it was s bit like Nu-Metal but with better singing. Very disappointing from the band who made Dance of December Souls, a very boring album. Diabolical 03:54, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps you should know the band split up in 96 and got back together in 97 with a different sound, more of an alternative doom metal sound. Have you listened to Viva Emptiness? That album is a masterpiece --Dexter prog 16:56, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I'd suggest alternative doom metal or post-doom metal then ... --Dexter prog 17:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Dexter prog, please stop inventing genres. -CatLikeThief 09:45, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
The band has nothing to do with Gothic Metal. Peraps youd like to read the articles on subjects and learn about them, before cluttering up Wikipedia with misinformation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.157.80.136 (talk) 16:32, 21 January 2007 (UTC).
Actually bands that sound exactly like Katatonia are discussed on the page, Paradise Lost, My Dying Bride & Anathema, so you're point doesn't stand. Diabolical 17:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
All of which are ironically, not Gothic Metal. Again, read the gothic metal article before making such stupid statements. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.43.135.121 (talk) 03:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC).

IMHO you could say that mid-career albums are goth rock/doom metal, but gothic metal maybe should be removed; oh, I agree with alternative metal (btw I hear many influences from Tool and Korn in TGCD, don't you?), metalheads that thinks that "alt is another name for nu" and "nu = rap and pop melodies" can't understand that music is in constant evolution and bands and genres change, evolve, introduce other influences in their sound etc.; I disagree with words like "alt doom", "alt post doom", "ultra symphonic vedic doom with jazzy melodies and acid riffs" etc., too confusing, imho we should put only 3 genres in the box, not 6, so that it will be easy to consult. Connacht 17:49, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] they changed

if all of u old fashioned metalheads believe alternative metal doesn't exist I understand why discussions like this are very debated.... you don't recognize that genres change and evolve and you want to put in a thousand genres to remain tied to the past, and when a band changes you always reject new musical waves and cast away with fear labels such "alt metal" or "post metal" or "crossover rock".... and the last album (tgcd) is also a bit influenced by nu metal, a specific subgenre of alternative that doesn't mean Linkin Park/Evanescence, but some ignorant people always think of that band and start to grunt...

-80.105.197.143

Why aren't they supposed to be metal anymore? The last two albums (Viva Emptiness and The Great Cold Distance) have double bass drums, heavy distortion, many riffs, guitar solos, lower tuning, some growling, and dissonant chord progressions. Discouraged Ones, Tonight's Decision and LFDGD are certainly not metal but rather rock with occasional heavy riffs. Anders would certainly be pleased to read how difficult is to classify Katatonia. Therefore, I think Alternative Metal or any other vague term fits the band much better. Kain 09:11, 22 April 2007 (UTC) http://www.metalreview.com/ViewInterview.aspx?ID=30130

[edit] reclassification

judging by the past few releases (which have polarized fans), i think it's time to reclassify this band, as they aren't really doom metal anymore (or metal, really). I vote for prog metal. does that work? Deutschebag17 22:39, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

No because they're nowhere near progressive, if anything they've regressed into a straight forward rock band. Diabolical 15:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Wealth, In the White, Walking on a Wire and Follower have asyncopation and not 'obvious' chord progressions (as most of the songs in the last two albums). The band may not be a progressive rock/metal act, but they have clearly been influenced by those genres. User:RedKain 08:29, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Gotta agree with RedKain here, there's nothing straightforward about Viva Emptiness or The Great Cold Distance. They took the streamlined sound they created on Discouraged Ones through to it's logical conclusion on Tonight's Decision and Last Fair Deal Gone Down, then started experimenting more with unusual textures, song structures, polyrhythms, etc, etc. I wouldn't say they're 100% prog metal, but there are progressive elements for sure. Onesecondglance 15:27, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Too much contradiction goes on here...

Katatonia had experimented various genre until their last album and the progression still continues.

First of all, Jhva Elohim Meth and Dance Of December Souls can be considered as Black/Doom Metal, because they are heavy, slow, Black Metal-influenced albums. We cannot find Death Metal riffs at that much. Compare it to Brave Murder Day and you will see the difference. Brave Murder Day is totaly a Doom/Death Metal album. From riffs to vocals, everything is based on Doom/Death.

Discouraged Ones, Tonight's Decision and Last Fair Deal Gone Down are the albums of Depressive Rock era. LFDGD is also Stoner Rock influenced. But this is a detail. Viva Emptiness and The Great Cold Distance show their return to metal roots, but abandoning the "doom" influence. The music is still dark and depressing. These albums can be Dark Metal. You can say that Dark Metal is more harsh, brutal etc... It is not a "well-fit" genre, too. We can consider Avec Tristesse as Dark Metal, but on the other hand, Madder Mortem is a Dark Metal band, too. Alternative Metal generally involves Nu-Metal, Rapcore, Funk-Metal and other mallcore genres. But Katatonia is still metal. This is not about being old-fashioned metalhead. Katatonia don't play Doom Metal since Discouraged Ones era.

My suggestion will be

first era: Black Doom/Doom Death Metal or just Doom Metal mid era: Depressive Rock now: Dark Metal

I also changed the Turkish page similar to this offering.

By the way, Katatonia had never experimented Gothic Metal or Gothic Rock.

And there is a mistake about the band's hiatus, it is between Dance Of December Souls and Brave Murder Day, not after the release of Brave Murder Day. So it is between 1994-1995. If you think I'm lying, get the remastered Brave Murder Day and Anders can tell you what is real. :) Enslaved 18:42, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Your comment sounds asinine, since you consider alternative metal only as a genre involved with "MALL"core and genres like nu metal and rapcore that probably you consider as shit and since you say "Katatonia is still metal" (maybe because you don't consider these genres as metal genres?). However, alt metal is not equal to nu metal or similar (but it is a subgenre, and TGCD is also lightly influenced by nu). And finally... "dark metal" doesn't exist, "dark" is an attribute that could be referred to a lot of different stuff, goth rock, death rock, gothic metal, doom... sometimes even death or black, or many industrial bands that sound "dark". Yes, an album could sound "dark". But like it could sound "harsh", or "happy", or "gloomy", or "melanchonic" etc. and "dark metal" doesn't exist. Sorry for my English.

Katatonia are in no way influenced by nu metal (NOT even lightly like you put it), and "alt metal" in my humble opinion has plenty things to do with nu metal, as it is one of it's premier derivative forms. And BTW i believe that these comments wich sounds asinine are JUST your own ones. You didn't make the sense even in that one in discussion of Sentenced's page. Stop making more nonsensical claims, you know obviously NOTHING about metal music.

[edit] Early katatonia

Jhova Elohim Meth revial and Dance of December soouls are dark metal albums. - Doom metal.com

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Katatonia Logo.png

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[edit] Katatonia at Metal Archives

this is what Katatonia is described as being at www.metal-archives.com

Doom/Death Metal, Depressive Rock

Death/doom is already on Wiki and "Depressive Rock" could be referred to as gothic metal or dark metal. Just a suggestion.

These guys has NOTHING to do with gothic metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.112.23.138 (talk) 20:52, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The miniature break-up of Katatonia.

There is something inconsistant about this wikipedia article. In the introduction section of this page, it says that they broke up from circa 1996 to 1997. But in the infobox, it says that Katatonia was broke up from 1994 to 1995. I'll try to fix that contradiction as soon as possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Backtable (talk • contribs) 22:58, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I've removed both items for the time being. We should really have a reference for such a detail. If you can find one, great. ×Meegs 23:39, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I think I will go to their metal-archives.com page to find this stuff out, and maybe their metalstorm.ee page as well. Backtable 23:47, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

For those who want reliable source for the departure of the band,I got the remastered edition of Brave Murder Day and there are new lineer notes in its booklet.There,Anders implies that they had broken up in autumn 1994 and hadn't contacted until autumn 1996.So,the this little break-up was in between 1994-1996.I am now changing that information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Enslaved (talk • contribs) 18:17, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Genres

Sorry if the question of genres may have already been discussed, but I insist on the fact that dark metal is not a genre, and that Katatonia's early career is best represented by the term death/doom (in the same seas as My Dying Bride and Anathema). Any objections to changing "dark metal" to "death/doom" ? Zouavman Le Zouave 16:38, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disease

What about adding something like

This as an article about music band Katatonia, for the disease see Catatonia

to the top of the article ?

I just did that. Thanks for the idea. BTC 01:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)