Talk:Karen people

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Contents

[edit] rm of History section

I removed the following passage, whose expression is rather too POV for inclusion here; the information contained therein needs to be sourced, referenced, and re-written in a more encyclopaedic tone:

During WWII the British approached the Karen and proposed that in exchange for their assistance and aid against the Burmese, when the war ended they would be named as a specific tribe people who deserved an area (state) of land for themselves. However, when the war ended, the British made a list of native people along the Thailand/Burma border who deserved land named specifically for the tribe, yet they forgot to name the Karen as one of the peoples. Therefore, the Burmese turned their anger against the Karen for their betrayal, so the Karen sought protection in across the border of Thailand. The Thai, however, do not see the Karen as people deserving of Thai citizenship, so when they are caught, they are sent back to the center of Burma... where the Karen villages are pillaged and the people brutally murdered by the Burmese Army. As of now the Karen people attempt to survive in the remote areas on border between Thailand and Burma, struggling to survive the attacks by the Burmese Army and evade discovery by the Thai border police. They live lives haunted by murder, rape, and replacement. They do not have a country to call their own, as the Burmese will kill them if they are found and the Thai will not accept them, and there are too many people to count hiding, establishing horrible negotiations with the Thai border police in order to survive. There are thousands of people whose births have never been recorded and whose deaths have never been documented. There is an entire race of people living in rancid conditions without any real evidence that they even exist.

--cjllw | TALK 06:45, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Suppression of religion

Since ethnic cleansing had already been mentioned without objection, I've added a sentence referring to the suppression of religion by the Burmese government, with citation. I also added to the external references links to reports by the State Dept.

[edit] Language classification

While some older groupings had Karenic as its own branch in Sino-Tibetan, it is now considered to belong to the Tibeto-Burman group. Also, the claim that Karen and Bai are the only Sino-Tibetan languages with SVO order is false on its face—see almost any SInitic language for a counterexample. Ergative rlt 00:44, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SVO and influence

While an independent innovation of SVO order is possible, all sources on the Karen languages that I've seen give either Mon and Tai contacts as a likely source for that order, or do not speculate at all on its origin. A source for scholars of Karen who support independent innovation would be useful. Also, note that traditional histories of a language do not necessarily have anything to do with the history of the language as theorized or determined by linguists. Ergative rlt 01:34, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 23:12, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Thai Karen" or "Hill Tribe" silver

On eBay, there is a flourishing cottage industry selling "Thai Karen" or "Hill Tribe" silver jewelry and silver beads. If deemed relevant, I would love to see a brief mention of this phenomenon and ensuing details, within this article. --Peri1013 03:38, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Karens and the British Colonial Policy

This may have to take under consideration when describing the relations between the ethnic minorities in Burma. " A demand by the Burmese government for a higher proportion of Burmans in the ( then British controlled ) armed forces caused the Governor Sir Reginal Dorman - Smith to form two territorial battalions. But this did not satisfy Burman aspirations, and consequently Burman companies were formed and included in the Burma Rifles, which had previously been recruited solely from Chins, Kachins, and Karens - generally considered more martial races. " As told by Late Brigadier Sir John Smyth Bt, VC, MC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.112.92.186 (talk) 20:32, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Does it even seem plausible, a dead colonialist's opinion notwithstanding, that a less martial race has waged so many wars of expansion in the region, established empires over the centuries and above all ended up as the dominant race of a modern nation state? Wagaung (talk) 21:01, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
There have been some academic studies of the British concept of "martial races" in relation to India. It was basically a rationalisation for keeping certain untrustworthy groups away from guns - the Bengalis were regarded as the non-martial race par excellence, largely because they'd been so much trouble to the East India Company in the 18th century. It was part of the larger "divide and rule" strategy - put minorities into the army to keep the majority down. In the Burnmese situation, it didn't hurt that the Burmans had managed to get themselves hated by all their neighbours, Karen, Shan, Rakhine, even Thai and Manipuri.PiCo (talk) 13:42, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rambo

Obviously Ahoerstemeier was correct to remove the reference to the Rambo film. Films are not references and shouldn't appear in the reference section. But I do think it would be good to include a section about the Rambo film in the article. Ryan Albrey (talk) 02:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe that a section on 'Rambo' would be appropriate. The Karen are a specific ethnic group with a distinct culture and history, neither of which include Rambo. The fact that an American action movie includes the Karen as a plot device does not have any relevance to the actual Karen or their plight... This actually reminds me of the situation that arose after Borat came out, when a number of editors wanted to add a section about that movie to the article for Kazakhstan which was also deemed inappropriate. The inclusion of a section on Rambo would set a precedent for including sections for any movie which has specific ethnic groups in it on that ethnic groups article, which would be ridiculous. --The Way (talk) 07:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Population figures don't add up

If the Karen represent 7% of the Burmese population of 47 million then they would number about 3.3 million not 7 million. If 7 million then this would be closer to 13%, or 1 in 7.(not the same as 7%). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.66.79.208 (talk) 00:37, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tibetan?

"The Karen people's ancestors ... were Tibetan refugees." I don't think so. PiCo (talk) 08:43, 20 May 2008 (UTC)