Talk:Karate kata

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[edit] Pov

This article was adapted from a series of kata articles found in Shotokan; naturally it gives a lot of weight to Shotokan karate right now. - JustSomeKid 01:44, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Format change

Anyone have objections to making this article list all of the kata (in one list), and then link to the Comparison of karate styles page with the differences between styles? The comparison page would have a table of kata vs style, with cells as {{yes2}}, {{no2}}, or {{some}} (some meaning some schools within the style teach it). This should make for a better layout with easier reading and comparison. --Scott Alter 06:17, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Why not put such table right here, in Karate kata? On Comparison of karate styles it would totally overpower everything else, and here it would be just on-topic. Oh, and to see just *how* overpowering it would be - check out the list of Shito-ryu katas on my web page, it shows which katas are recognized by three organizations within the style (that's three out of at least a dozen) --Cubbi 06:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I think it would go better on the comparison page because the table would be comparing the styles. The comparison page currently does not have much content, and how better to differentiate styles than by the kata practiced? The table need not mention all possible names of the kata in all languages or its origins (this would be in the text). It would just be a table of kata in rows with narrow columns of yes/no for several styles. It would be placed beneath the existing table on the comparison page, as to not obfuscate the existing information. I envision the article about karate kata as one that mentions each kata and the history behind it (with links to its main article - something equivalent to the list of kata/weapons at Okinawan kobudo). Whether the table (which can easily be moved) would be on this page, the comparison page, or a page of its own, I would like the formatting to be one heading for each kata (or series) not broken down by style, and a separate table for comparison. --Scott Alter 06:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I think the comparison page would be better served by naming one or several kata that are truly representative of the style. Some kata ( Seiyunchin, Seienchin, for example ) are practiced by ( for example ) both Goju Ryu and Shito Ryu but ( for example ) in WKF competition, Seienchin is a shitei ( compulsory ) kata only for Shito Ryu. For structure, I think both the kata page and the comparison page should link to pages describing the individual kata. jmcw 13:34, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
On the Comparison of karate styles page, I just changed the # of kata column to representative kata. Please fill in what you know to be representative of each style. This should be more helpful, rather than an arbitrary number. I will not begin to work on reorganizing this article into a table for at least another week. --Scott Alter 22:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Using both WKF and WUKO competiton rules about required kata, I suggest the following:
  • Goju : Seipai, Saifa, Gekisai Dai
  • Shotokan : Heian, Jion, Kanku Dai
  • Shito : Pinan, Bassai Dai, Seienchin, Saifa
  • Wado : Pinan, Seishan, Chinto
  • Shorin : Pinan, Naihanchi, Fukyu
  • Uechi : Kanshiva, Kanshu, Sechin, Seryu
  • Kyokushinkai : Pinan
  • Budokan : Heian, Taikyoku
I do not know all these styles/kata - it would be nice to involve someone from each style.jmcw 19:19, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Shito-ryu is about right. Bassai-dai and Seienchin are the shitei (required) kata for our style. In fact, here is the "SCHEDULE OF W.K.F. COMPULSORY (SHITEI) KATA" as copied from http://www.wkf.net/WKFRulesENG2005.zip
* Goju: Seipai, Saifa
* Shoto: Jion, Kanku Dai
* Shito: Bassai Dai, Seienchin
* Wado: Seishan, Chinto
as for Pinan aka Heian.. everyone has it. On the other end of the spectrum, there are kata absolutely specific for Shito-ryu because they were created by the style's founders, but they rarely appear at tournaments, so are hardly recognizable (Aoyagi, anyone?) --Cubbi 20:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I just created the table of styles by kata. To do this, the order of kata in a particular style had to be lost. The order of kata should probably go on the page of the specific style. Also, I merged series into one row. The articles on the kata series can go into detail about the individual kata in a series and variations between styles. Some of the rows of kata may be the same, but with different names in different styles. I tried to combine all of these, but if I missed any, please merge the rows. Also, I used {{some}} if the kata is not standard for all schools within a style. If there is a {{yes}} that should be a {{some}}, please change that as well. --Scott Alter 16:32, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reliable sources for the term dharmic religions?

Where are the reliable sources that use the term dharmic religions in the context of this article? Dharmic religions is a now deleted obscure neologism and should not be used throughout Wikipedia. Andries 15:55, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

It is not an obscure neologism. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 17:02, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
If it is not an obscure neologism then it would be easy to provide multiple reliable sources books, peer reviewed articles etc. I am waiting. I am also waiting for use of the phrase in the context of this article. Andries 17:07, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
I propose to use the alternative phrase Indian religions. The number of google scholar results for "Indian religions"+"Indian religion" is (45.600 + 84.200) while it is only (492+475) for "dharmic religions" +"dharmic religion" (492+475). See Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_September_8. Andries 19:21, 9 September 2007 (UTC)