Talk:Kara-Khitan Khanate

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

WikiProject Archaeology (Rated start-Class) Archaeology Portal This article is part of WikiProject Archaeology, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to archaeology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. Start This article has been rated as start-Class on the assessment scale. ??? This article has not yet received an importance rating on the assessment scale. WikiProject Central Asia     (Rated Start-Class) Kara-Khitan Khanate is part of WikiProject Central Asia, a project to improve all Central Asia-related articles. This includes but is not limited to Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Xinjiang, Tibet and Central Asian portions of Iran and Russia, region-specific topics, and anything else related to Central Asia. If you would like to help improve this and other Central Asia-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome. Start This article has been rated as start-Class on the Project's quality scale. Mid This article has been rated as mid-importance on the Project's importance scale. After rating the article, please provide a short summary on the article's ratings summary page to explain your ratings and/or identify the strengths and weaknesses. Former countries WikiProject    (Rated Start-Class) This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former Countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of now-defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project. Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. (FAQ). Add comments Additional information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- 3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- 4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no WikiProject China     (Rated Start-Class) This article is part of WikiProject China, a project to improve all China-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other China-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome. Start This article has been rated as start-Class on the quality scale. (add comments) More information about this article... ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale. WikiProject Khitan:Khitan Khitan Portal This article is part of WikiProject Khitan:Khitan, an attempt to improve content and create better coordination between articles related to warfare, cultural practices and customs of Khitans. Please participate in improvement by editing Kara-Khitan Khanate and related pages, or visit the WikiProject Khitan main page for more details on the projects. Khitan Proposed naming conventions: Ketuyu (可突于, d. 734) such as Pinyin name (Chinese caracter, b. date of born-d. date of death, r. date of reign) ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the Project's quality scale. Please rate the article and then leave a short summary here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.

	This article is being improved by the Cleanup Taskforce to conform with a higher standard of article quality. It is likely to change frequently until completed. Please see its Cleanup Taskforce page for more details.
Cleanup Taskforce page → Edit | Purge ==Kara-Khitan Khanate== Kara-Khitan Khanate needs copyediting, verification and general help from someone familiar with Asian history and/or Chinese characters. Added to User:Njál/Desk Kerowyn 02:33, 28 December 2005 (UTC) I can copyedit and attempt to verify, but someone else will need to check the Chinese. Njál 22:43, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

previous contents blanked for reasons of meaninglessness.

[edit] Move?

I think this article should be moved to the Kara-Khitai empire, or similar variants. Their administration was primarily imperial, mixed with some Central Asian practices. Khanate doesn't really describe the empire that well--Confuzion 23:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I would find Western Liao preferable -- and I don't believe doing so would be Sinocentric. The reason is that there is no real evidence that the state ever referred to itself as Kara-Khitan. --Nlu (talk) 02:47, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

The term Kara-Khitai is likely a post-historical invention, at least in reference to the specific state. The state never referred to itself as Kara-Khitai or Kara-Khitan, as recorded in any official documents from contemporary sources. The term Kara-Khitai came into popular use after the Mongol conquest, and was probably later adopted by Muslims to differentiate it from Khitai/Khitay, since the meaning of Khitai/Khitay had shifted over time to mean northern China. There is only one reference to the term "Kara Khitai" in any historical documents. The document, discovered by archaeologists, is attributed to the Liao Dynasty and is written in the Khitan small script. It's unclear if Kara Khitai was used to refer to the state or to the people.

Calling the state a Khanate is incorrect for many reasons, so moving it to anything else would be an improvement. Since the Khitan of Western Liao did not adopt Islam, the modern Central Asian states have tended to ignore their history; most research on their history have been conducted by the Chinese, thus the inevitable Western backlash against Sino-centrism when it comes to such topics. I agree that Western Liao is the clearest term for naming this state, since they were initially known as the Western Liao (from the Chinese), the Dashi (from the Jurchens) or Khitay/Khitai (from the Persians/Arabs). For whatever reasons, Chinese historians had traditionally considered the state to be a proper Chinese state, probably due to its adoption of Confucianism in government, among other things.--Confuzion 04:01, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

It is called Kara-Kitad in the Secret History of the Mongols. So it's no invention. Where is the evidence that they called themselves "Western Liao"? The ruler of Kara-Kitai was called had the title of Gur-khan, meaning Khan of a great power. Perhaps this is an equivalent to an emperor. Gantuya eng 09:07, 14 October 2007 (UTC)