Talk:Karađorđe Petrović

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The reason for "kara" (=turkish 'black') is probably not his dark complexion, but rather because of a certain Turkish medieval vasality system.

Nobles were "white" (turkish "ak"), while common people or vassals were "black" (turkish "kara"). See List of Vlachs for many family names starting with "cara"/"kara" (Caragiale, Caragea, Caragiu, Caramitru, Karajan, Karaiskakis). Bogdan | Talk 20:17, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Was Karadjordje chosen the leader on February 2nd or 14th in 1804 ? First Serbian Uprising says it's February 14. Can someone confirm this date, please ? -- PFHLai 17:18, 2005 Feb 14 (UTC) That could perhaps be yet another Julian calendar/Gregorian calendar ambiguity...

Can someone (preferably a Turkish source) please check and clear the notion "dahi" (Dahija in Serbian) Allegedly it is Janissary higher rank, but there is no mention of them on Janissary page, elsewhere there is only a footnote. for all we know, it may actually be something completely different and an unofficial title.

[edit] jumpy runny fighty POV adventure article

Is this article supposed to read as something like 'the amazing adventures of...'? If not, why are the Ottomans villified and Karadjordjic made into a semi-deity? So if anybody knows enough Srb history to rectify this, please do. Unsigned by 81.206.75.104. Hedley 19:30, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I can't see any of that. It's historical fact, dear friend. He was an exceptional man. he was the only one who could unite bickering Serbs and lead them to military victory. Knez Milos only succeded in buttlicking the sultan for autonomy. --Belgrader 30 June 2005 11:36 (UTC)

Ok, I gave my best to rewrite it, so now it should be both more accurate and certainly not as POV :) --dcabrilo 22:10, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] beheaded by...

I was under the impression Karadjordjic was ordered beheaded by Mehmed II?

No, he wasn't. --213.244.195.213 30 June 2005 11:31 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

D, I see that you deleted a lot of text from the article as unverifiable. Could you return it and only delete POV? I translated the article from Sveznanje which is a reputable source, so when they say that he killed a Turk before joining Freikorps or that he was tipped about Dahias' intentions, it probably was so. Nikola 10:13, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I consulted other sources while writing the stuff. I'd rather have us here dissect all of it because I removed stuff which I couldn't verify (and Sveznanje version didn't look good). According to sources I consulted (I did it from a library, so I should be able to find those books again) there was no mention of killing a Turk before joining Freikorps. I'll try to consult more sources and see if I overlooked it. As far as the tip goes, sure, that seems valid. Sveznanje obviously isn't that reputable, as their version was rather POV, so why assume factual accuracy?

Maybe current historians don't consider that bit interesting or important. As Sveznanje was written during Karadjordjevic's rule, it could be expected that there will be some POV. But I don't see what would anyone gain from writing that Karadjordje killed a Turk if that didn't happen. Nikola 13:03, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Also, it's not just about deleting POV stuff, it's also about making the article read NPOV and balanced. --dcabrilo 10:23, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I added the stuff about killing a Turk as well, but will double check. --dcabrilo 10:26, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Look, that was just an example. You deleted more. For example that he distinguished in an attempt to capture the Kalemegdan. Nikola 13:03, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Date of Death

At the begginning of the article it lists his death July 13, 1817 while at the end of the article it states July 24, 1817. Is this an error or difference in the Gerogian vs Julian calander?

[edit] Murder of George's father

M. E. Durham writes in "Twenty Years Of Balkan Tangle"

...In 1787 a panic seized the peasants when an Austrian attack upon the Turks was expected. To save themselves and their flocks from the approaching Turkish army they fled in crowds, hurrying to cross the Save and finding safety in Austria. George's father was very reluctant to go, and on reaching the river would not cross it. George, in a blind fury, refusing either to stay himself and make terms with the Turks, or to leave his father behind, snatched the pistol from his sash and shot the old man down. Then, shouting to a comrade to give his father a death-blow, for he was still writhing, George hurried on, leaving behind him a few cattle to pay for the burial and the funeral feast.

This amazing account is most probably well-refuted, but shouldn't it be added to the article? With refutation, of course. -- Tiphareth 02:33, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually no, the story is true (except that it was his stepfather). Nikola 09:18, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Apparently there are many concurrent

versions (stepfather, patricide because of father's

betrayal, and also a patricide due to George's

mother's insistence upon his betrayal). Fratricide

on top of it as well. Some of these are due to a

character assassination campain by Russian envoy

Rodofinikin.

Here is a good account of some versions (in Russian):

"РАЗЫСКАНИЕ ОБ ОТЦЕУБИЙСТВЕ"

I expect that adding such lurid

details would incur patriotic wrath and speedy revert

(at least that's what typically happens in Russian and

Polish sectors of Wiki in such cases). --Tiphareth 11:19, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I think not if it's done in thoughtful way. Information about character assassination might be especially interesting, as I never heard of it, it's apparenly not being paid much attention to in our history. Nikola 09:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Czerny

If anyone is interested, there is a citation for usage of the "Czerny-George" version (currently unreferenced), albeit under an altered form: the Romanian writer Ion Ghica refers to him as "Cerni-George", which is basically the Romanian alphabet rendition of that name. See [1].

More interesting stuff about this and other characters of the period, and very valuable secondary context is provided by Ghica, so, in case you want more details, please feel free to elaborate on my talk page. Dahn 19:49, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How do you spell that again?

I'm sure that there are articles in English in books and encyclopedias about this person, but they're not going to be in this fashionable Romanization. Yes, it's thrilling to have the Serbian government, or whoever, officially prescribe a Romanization from the Cyrillic, and to try to impose it upon all peoples who use the Latin alphabet, but there surely are articles in English about this person that can't be accessed because they couldn't possibly use the remarkable characters used in his name. (I'm sure that that's not the letter eth.) This article, and all others trying the same trick, should include the standard terms in English -- or just keep to the Serbian Wikipedia. 64.69.127.105 (talk) 19:51, 8 May 2008 (UTC)