Talk:Kappa Upsilon Chi

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Fraternities and Sororities WikiProject Kappa Upsilon Chi is part of the Fraternities and Sororities WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Greek Life on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to International social societies, local organizations, honor societies, and their members. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, visit the project page, where you can join the project, and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Why is this page inappropriate?

  • fixed what I felt was inappropriate (should have done this myself instead of marking it, my apologies)

Contents

[edit] Efforts to delete references to Beta Upsilon Chi vs. Efforts to add references to Beta Upsilon Chi

Though it seems that someone is determined to erase the influence, Kappa Upsilon Chi (as is obvious from the history of the organization and its present traditions) was heavily inspired by both Beta Upsilon Chi and its sister sorority Sigma Phi Lambda. The attempt by some to erase this influence seems rather petty. The information can be corroborated by officials in all three organizations.

Diezba 18:22, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Response

I do not know who it is that insists on including this content in the wiki regarding BYX influence, but I currently am on the Board of KYX and would be interested in knowing where you are getting this information. I have heard many "stories" about KYX from BYX brothers (my own siblings) and many of them are untrue after we have investigated them.

I have heard that KYX influenced BYX traditions as BYX has revamped its activities over the years. You do not see a KYX member trying to impose that "rumor" as a thread on the BYX wiki.

It is easy to accuse us of being petty, but this BYX influence thread is a thread that only you are insisting on (Vanderbilt BYX). There is no need to throw in subtle insults when we are trying to get accuracy, and at this point, merely pointing to corroboration in KYX officials corroborates nothing and gets us no closer to accuracy.

[edit] Simple Logic

[edit] Regarding the influence of BYX on KYX

I have decided not to go back into the KYX article and point out the influence of BYX on KYX, becausey ou seemed determined not to include it -- but I challenge you to explain where certain things in the Fraternity (like the name, for starters) came from. And, it seems obtuse to say that KYX was influenced by Phi Lamb, but not by BYX. Let's be honest, here: Phi Lamb is the female BYX, and they directly attribute much of their early tradition to BYX.

I am not saying that KYX is not unique and one is any less worthy or influential because of its origins. In the IFC world, many strong national fraternities were started as off-shoots of others and it did not hurt either. Neither does it hurt them to acknowledge their origins. BYX and KYX have become separate and distinct groups, but for accuracy's sake, it should be acknowledged that KYX was at least influenced by BYX in its early years. As a Board member, and therefore Christian leader, one would hope you would seek to make sure you were being honest with yourself, your membership, and the world-at-large through Wikipedia.

[edit] Regarding the influence of KYX on BYX

It is difficult to say, let alone to show, that KYX has influence BYX in the very fundamental way that BYX influenced KYX. To say that "over the years" KYX influenced BYX is difficult to understand, since KYX was founded in 1993, and BYX was founded in 1985. By the late 90s, BYX already had a coordinating national structure in place and by 2000, there was already a paid staff organized under the incorporated Fraternity. It is easy to point out "rumors", but it is difficult to pin down exactly how this "influence" is conducted.

And even if you can show that there is influence by KYX on BYX, it is not in the nature of the fundamental, foundational influence that BYX exerted on the first chapters of KYX when it was in its infancy. No rationale observer could urge that neither organization has influenced the other -- since competition itself is premised upon an understanding that each side will try to to as well or better than the other (and therefore must know what the other is doing). But BYX has, by no means, changed its core identity, ritual, or traditions based upon the influence of KYX. Certainly KYX has not changed its constituent identity because of BYX since it was founded, but that is my point: it was in its founding that BYX, as the 800-pound gorilla of "national Christian fraternities" in Texas at the time -- exerted on the KYX founders' understanding of what doing "Christian fraternity" even meant.

I believe KYX is a brother of BYX, and that we should work together to continue to pursue our common mission in challenging college men to stay fixed on Christ. There is room for friendly competition in that common mission, but there must also be truth and accuracy -- especially on Wikipeida.

Diezba 19:23, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Response

At no point did I say I desired to be dishonest as you have inferred. Instead, in my earlier response I said I desired accuracy. Your original BYX addition to the KYX wiki basically inferred that we copied BYX, but you did not corroborate it. All you have done is point out that our names are similar. In that sense, you can say that BYX influenced KYX. Beyond that you have not shown any so called "corroborating" evidence that you influenced our traditions or our ceremonies or anything else at our core.

As for KYX's influence on BYX, I appreciate your diatribe, but I did not set out to debate how much influence KYX had on BYX because it would turn into a "he said, she said" debate with no end. (I think you missed my point of mentioning "rumors") In the same manner, beyond Kappa Upsilon Chi and Beta Upsilon Chi being similar in name, any debate about how much influence BYX has had on KYX would also turn into a "he said, she said" debate, with no end. From what I have heard and understand there are countless, conflicting stories floating around about both organizations, and since the organizations are so big, and have been around for many years now, it is hard to iron out the exact details of the origins of our traditions without interviewing every founding father of each organization.

It has been clear from the beginning that you have had an agenda to add BYX references in the KYX wiki page, and I can understand wanting to advance your organization. I do not fault you for that, nor do I have any problem with BYX. I encouraged my own siblings to join BYX and I think it is a fabulous organization. However, I do not think your wording of how much influence BYX had on KYX is accurate. (Or honest--however you would choose to phrase it).

[edit] Compromise Language

See if you agree with the language I have just added as "compromise" language, as follows:

, briefly considered establishing a chapter of the then-new Beta Upsilon Chi, but instead

This language is confirmed by a KYX Board member above. As such, it should not be challenged by passers-by. After all, if it is ok to mentioned Fiji, it should be ok to mention BYX.

[edit] Response to Compromise Language and Disagreement as to Confirmation

For the time being, I do not have a problem with the language you have chosen in the compromise. I do think the compromise is not complete, and I hope to interview the founding members of KYX within the next couple of months to get the story from the horses mouth so that the whole truth can be discovered. (I'm new to this wiki thing, so maybe we can get their interviews transcribed or something a little more concrete than rumors). Hopefully this section can become more developed than it is right now.

It is important to point out that my language does not "confirm" the compromise. I said,

"All you have done is point out that our names are similar. In that sense, you can say that BYX influenced KYX. Beyond that you have not shown any so called "corroborating" evidence that you influenced our traditions or our ceremonies or anything else at our core."

That does not confirm that we considered establishing BYX. I was simply acknowledging that when looking at your "corroborating evidence" alone, that evidence made a strong argument for your claim that the name of BYX influenced the name of KYX. To say that my statement is confirmation of the point that the founders of KYX considered establishing a chapter of BYX is a big stretch.

Diezba 20:18, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

User from Hereford, Texas feels the need to vandalize this page constantly. Please edit back and ignore.

      • Please cite reasons for Neutrality dispute if you are going to put it here. Thanks! ~jczup

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:KYX Crest small.gif

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:20, 5 June 2007 (UTC)