Talk:Kano Jigoro

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Good article Kano Jigoro has been listed as one of the Everyday life good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
June 28, 2007 Good article nominee Listed

Contents

[edit] Kano & Competition

Also a member of the International Olympic Committee for Japan, Kano dreamed of including judo in the Olympic Games.

Although a member of the International Olympic Committee, wasn't Kano totally opposed to competition in Judo, including Olympic Games? The bios I've read about him totally contrast with what is said in the article.

Fixed this information in the article. As many sources suggest (e.g. http://www.bstkd.com/JudoHistory/HistoryKano.htm, http://www.afma.upcsites.com/judo.html), Kano's interest in the olympic games was not related to a wish to have Judo included as a discipline.

IMO, he wasn't "totally" opposed, he just didn't want it to become the be-all and end-all that it became in the colleges, where the elite athletes got scholarships and the rest of the kids got to ride the bench. Also, in fairness, judo was slated to be an exhibition sport at the 1940 Olympics (alongside kyudo and kendo). The people who were pushing for the inclusion in the Olympic Games were the Germans before WWII, and the Europeans and Americans after WWII. From a Japanese standpoint, inclusion was a good thing, though, as it significantly inflated national medal counts. People say those don't matter, but for funding sources, they do. Joseph Svinth 01:53, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Doctor of?

So what did he study to earn the title of Doctor? Fred26 19:51, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Man, he studied a lot of things. He was a scholar in the first place. He graduated from Tokyo Imperial University: From this external biography you can read: At the same time that he was developing his notions of a reformed jujutsu, Kano was a student at the Tokyo Imperial University, studying literature, politics and political economy. He graduated in 1881 and the following year became an instructor at the prestigious Gakushuin, or Peersí School, in Tokyo, a school for children of the nobility. Kano continued his lifelong involvement with academic education, earning a doctorate and eventually becoming Headmaster of the Tokyo Teachers' Training School. The same year that Kano became an instructor at the Gakushuin, he was ready to begin teaching his brand of jujutsu. [1] . Regards Loudenvier 02:17, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright Flag and restart

The whole article comes from judoinfo with unclear permision. I've started over on a temp page.Peter Rehse 05:26, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I think too much people added content to this article so it seems a litle too drastic to lable it as a whole copyright infrigment, which is very unlikely given the number of contributions. A lot of content may come from judoinfo. But a lot of info, for example the facts about his possible assassination aren`t even mentioned on judoinfo. This tag must be taken with a grain of salt. Loudenvier 23:23, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at the article that it comes from - it was almost word for word until I changed a bit near the front. It was copied wholesale from the Judoinfo page. There is no question about it being copyright infringement.Peter Rehse 00:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


There were organized competitions in Japan for quite some time - the first competition in front of the emperor was in 1929 - I don't think it is correct to say that he was against that entirely. Also Japan was fighting in China and elsewhere before it went to war against the US - militarization was a serious problem for at least a decade before WWII. The way the article was written these points were confused.Peter Rehse 08:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Also once again there is a copyright issue http://www.iydk.com/history.html. Lazy or what - well at least its relatively short so I'll see what I can do.Peter Rehse 08:29, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unassigned references

I have changed some titles in the article: footnotes should read References, since that's what they are. The References section I've changed to Unassigned references because all those references aren't assigned to a specific place in the article by means of a 'ref' tag. Now the authors who used those references should correct that by properly linking to each of them using the ref tag, this way the article will be on its way to a better grading. Regards. Loudenvier 14:52, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed Mr. Svinth added greatly to the content of this article however it is hard to know which pieces of information are supported by the numerous references. If we link them up in the way of footnotes I think the article would be much improved. For my part I will try to do the same in places where I have contributed.--Mateo2006 16:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Directions

I forgot to thank you and other contributors for improving this article so fast after it was tagged a copy-vio a few months ago. With a little patience and some effort we could even dream to make this a featured article in wikipedia. Kano is a very important historical figure for Japan, the world and specially anyone practicing Judo. Thanks! Loudenvier 18:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Kano is definitely deserving. A great contributor to the Japanese education system in addition to his work in promoting judo and physical culture. I'd like to see the article fleshed out a bit in this direction as well. Mr. Svinth also mentioned the lack of personal details like family history etc which need to be filled in. Anyone? --Mateo2006 04:13, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moving sections to Kodokan Page?

- I added another quote describing his views on Olympic judo. A thought here. The article is getting long. What do you think of moving the section on the Kodokan's development to the Kodokan's own page? I think that might be more appropriate, and shorten this up. Joseph Svinth 10:07, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, currently the Kodokan page mostly focuses on the building and the organization if memory serves so we could put in the history of the development. I don't see a problem with the Kano article getting long, in and of itself however a more appropriate location for the material is a different matter and worth considering. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

I'm not so keen on the idea as it will require 'tweaking' in order to have anything like a consistant narrative flow with the Kodokan article ...and that sounds like 'work'. :)

However I'm happy to let it go that way if others are.--Mateo2006 19:21, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I moved text about, and added sources to the Kodokan section. Joseph Svinth 00:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good Article Candidate

I'm nominating this article for GA status. It needs some significant work, yet, to make FA class, but as it stands now, this article is at least as polished as Shinto Muso-ryu. I have only one problem with it, as follows. Bradford44 15:44, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Comment The page needs to be moved to Kano Jigoro. The rule regarding this is clear: he was born prior to 1868 (the first year of Meiji), so his surname goes first, both in the article title, as well as every instance his name is written out (see WP:MOS-JP). Bradford44 15:44, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
    • In case anyone's wondering about the edits I made they are mostly minor, dealing with wikifying, rephrasing, formatting references and word choices. Good luck. Chensiyuan 20:40, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA on hold

This was a tough review, but I enjoyed reading the article and found it informative and generally well written and researched. However, I'm putting it on hold for the following reasons:

  • The one unfree photo, John Dewey, must have a fair-use rationale.
The fair use rationale is that the picture illustrates the object in question. I haven't had to deal with this before, though, so I'm not sure where I'm supposed to put that rationale. Bradford44 00:23, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
The rationale itself goes on the photo's description page, Image:John Dewey.jpg. Rationales must be handcrafted for each specific use of the photo, even though the use of that particular image is likely the same rationale in every instance. You only need to worry about its use in Kano Jigoro for the purposes of the GA review. I'm not sure why this particular photo can't be replaced by a public-domain image, but that's not really an issue that we need to deal with right now. For more details, see Help:Image page#Fair use rationale (don't know why it's buried there), and Image:Vichit.jpg for an example of a fair-use rationale in action. — WiseKwai 13:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Done. Bradford44 14:01, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Citation templates must be used.
    • Just a comment, but I don't believe there is any guideline that says that citation templates must be used. In fact quoting from the link you give: "the use of Citation templates is not required by WP:CITE and is neither encouraged nor discouraged by any other Wikipedia citation guidelines." Lack of citation templates would not be grounds for failing this article, although if the editor wants to make use of them then he may find them useful. Cheers. 4u1e 10:04, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
      • Fair enough. I keep forgetting that there are no rules. However, I would still strongly encourage that the citation templates be used for the simple fact that it makes it easy for the references to be presented in a consistent manner. Initially, they can be tough to switch to, but once the changeover is done, the way will be smoothed for the article to progress. If it comes up for FA, there will likely be some editors thumping on their desks, demanding that the citation templates be used. So let me say, it would be nice to see the citation templates be used. In articles I've worked on that were promoted to GA, the reviewing editors pretty much made the citation templates a requirement, which is why I thought they were required. Now I know better. Thanks! — WiseKwai 14:54, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
  • The introduction inadequately summarizes the body of the article. It introduces material about Kano's involvement with the Olympics that is not later expanded upon or discussed in detail. A bit more about the rapid growth of judo could also be included in the intro. See WP:LEAD for more details.
The lead was revised, can you offer offer an opinion on whether it is better now? Bradford44 17:21, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
The intro is headed in the right direction, hitting on why Kano was important and what his accomplishments were, but it needs to be at least a couple paragraphs longer, in order to summarize the weight of the article. Can you add a few more specifics about his legacy, judo's importance, his educational theories and role in the Olympic games? — WiseKwai 19:22, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Okay, take a look at the next iteration of the introduction and also the current revisions to his educational philosophy. Joseph Svinth 03:52, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
  • "Kano pursues" section, fifth paragraph: "Reportedly ..." is weasely sounding. Just get rid of it.
  • "Professional life": It's okay to restate that he attended college at Tokyo Imperial University (wikilinked) at this point.
  • At what point exactly did he first get involved with Olympics organizing? It's mentioned in the introductory paragraphs but hardly mentioned in the body of the article, except for the quoted passage from a letter in the "Kano's ideals" section.
  • "Establish Kodokan Judo": You need to introduce Iikubo again. Who is he? There was a break there as Kano's professional life in academia was discussed. Now we're back talking about martial arts.
  • "Death": I don't quite follow this section. Are the bullet points there to argue the conspiracy theory around Kano's death? I would suggest rewriting this section in prose, without the bullets, and clearly explain what the conspiracy theories were, and why they were false.
  • There needs to be a closing section, to explain his legacy. You mention in the introduction that judo was finally made a demonstration sport at the Olympics in 1964, but it is never followed up on.
  • "Video footage" should be moved to flush bottom of the article and renamed external links. Are there any other meaningful external links that could be added?
Moved "video footage" to "external links". The only other meaningful external links that I can think of might point to specific judo organizations (such as the Kodokan), but my experience editing martial arts articles has taught me that once you add one martial arts organization, its a rapid slippery slope for the list to be filled with every organization or individual school for that style on the planet (frequently organized by country, city, etc..., with dozens of entries). Also, revised the "see also" section, by removing the two links (which were alreadly linked to in the body of the article) and adding several for some judo-related concepts that were strongly influenced by Kano. Bradford44 14:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Can these issues be addressed in two weeks' time? If you need more time, let me know. Once these issues are addressed, I see no reason why I wouldn't promote this to GA status. — WiseKwai 23:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good article promotion

I have promoted this as a good article, because I believe it meets the good-article criteria.

I encourage this article's contributors to continue improving it.

Furthermore, I encourage the primary editors to consider reviewing other Good article candidates. — WiseKwai 12:46, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Auto-review

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

  • Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.[?]
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    • apparently
    • might be weasel words, and should be provided with proper citations (if they already do, or are not weasel terms, please strike this comment).[?]
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You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Nate1481( t/c) 11:29, 31 August 2007 (UTC)