Talk:Kambojas

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Kambojas is part of the WikiProject Afghanistan, a project to maintain and expand Afghanistan-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.

???

This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.

[edit] Handling citations

As I try to clean up this article, the one thing I am not sure how to handle is the numerous citations. They are sprinkled in within the overall narrative which makes it very difficult to read. Does anyone have a good example of how to do format this best?

Also, there doesn't seem to be an accepted style to present a sanskrit shloka, so I have adapted a style I have found elsewhere and expanded on it. Please comment.

Finally, I may have actually found an error in the first shloka I tried to style. The text of the article states that it is from the Mahabharata, book 12 (Shantiparva) page 207, verses 43 and 44. However, based on http://www.hindunet.org/mahabharata/txt/12.txt, the actual reference seems to be page 200, verses 40 and 41. I have changed the citation accordingly. Would anyone confirm that this is correct please? SpikedZebra 00:23, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

- Thanks SpikedZebra

Actually, there is no error.

The verse number (MBH 12/207/43-44) which you are refereing to I have based it on the Gorakhpore edition of Mahabhara.

You have changed it in accordance with online Critical Edition of Mahabharata.

To be noted here that there are some discrepancies and differences between Gorakhpore Mahabharata and the online Critical edition.

I have mostly relied on verse-references from the Gorakhpore edition.

KLS

P.S.

I'm also thankful to Bluemoose for sectionalizing the article.

[edit] Editing & Wikifying the article Kambojas

hello everyone interested in this task - actually here main problem is that the article size is very big than the size desired by wikipedia. A lot of references will have to be made compact. With all the materials avaiolable here a book may be prepared and placed along with the article. The size of the article may accordingly be made more compact, containing all the materials. No doubt, it is a challenging task, if not daunting. We all who are interested in this work must continue to work and exchange views. --Bhadani 16:33, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

I'll take a crack at it. Bubamara 15:28, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
- sorry - I went away for a week and didn't do any work. I'll try to pitch in with the cleanup effort, but it's hard to keep up. Bubamara 00:51, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Clean up

A massive clean up is required - language will have to be made simple and duplicate references and free flow style of presentation will have to be removed. Sections will have to renamed and several other things.... I am trying for one or two smaller sections. In case, any one donot want me to do cleanup in the manner I shall be doing, plz drop a message here. I will stop and step aside. Thanks.--Bhadani 14:27, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Bhadani and other good friends who voted to keep the article, but suggested a clean-up and wittling it down to a reasonable size.

Also I greatly appreciate your and PHG 's efforts in cleaning up the article.

I can cut down the artcle to anysize the Wikians want it and also remove all secondary source references if suggested, but I have suggestion that the pre-clean up full-size article be preserved at some site in the Wiki-domain so that someone interested in full details of Kambojas may have an access to that.

Thanks KLS.

[edit] VfD

On May 13, 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep. See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Kambojas for a record of the discussion. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 14:59, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

To All suporters:

I am very thankful to the friends who have expressed interest in this article. This article is indeed based on original research on Kamboj people, and all the information presented here is based on primary sources or else on highly creditable secondary sources. If any reader finds some thing which he/she thinks goes against established history facts, please do write. It should be our endavor to improve this article further. Important thing is that if all vital information about the Kambojas is to be presented here, the article size could be a bit longer. If some friend can creat sub-artcles based on the sections of this article, please go ahead. We would appreciate the initiative.

Thanks again.

KLS

[edit] Cleanup request

The references in this article don't have enough context to be useful. They need to be turned into footnotes that give full citations, or at least that use intelligible abbreviations. The talk page also contains a gratuitous amount of information. It should probably be moved to one or more subpages, and someone needs to check whether or not any of it still needs processing of some kind. -- Beland 06:29, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

I cleaned up the talk page; the article itself still needs work. -- Beland 03:17, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ashoka Column picture removed

This picture was removed because of possible copyright violation. The copyright notice on Wikipedia incorrectly stated that the picture is from buddha101.com and used with the permission of the author of that site. The picture is not on buddha101.com and no permission was given.

[edit] Cleanup

It is quite clear from the two V/AfD's that the subject matter of this article is needed in this encyclopedid but it needs a lot of work. It needs a huge ammount of work. What I sugest is that we try to rewrite the article here. What we should do is slowly develop an article that wikipedia readers who do not know anything about this subject will be able to understand. Any objections? Anybody willing to help? Andreww 11:17, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Looks interesting I will take up the cleaning --Vyzasatya 07:58, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! I think we should can the rewrite idea and just go with a major clean of the page. Andreww 09:08, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

This article needs some work. Looks like lot of talk and no work. (no wonder talk page needed formatting too).

sorted references of Modern kambojas section and placed in References section in the bottom
some of the sections seems to have disjointed pieces of random Information. I guess bulleted formatting is the way to for those
Lot of one sentence small paragraphs. Pieced some of those together to make more free flowing logical paragraphs.
Made a kambojas template to be able to access all sub articles from one place. Think it would be more useful to have in the top right corner. (right now it is in the bottom) what do you think?

--Vyzasatya 03:10, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

I deleted this sentence from physical appearence section. Where do you think this should go?

"During the reign of terror in India (18th/19th century), it was the Kambohs (Kamboj) only who were most trusted by the rich bankers for carrying their cash in the disguise of faqirs^[16]

--Vyzasatya 03:46, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

It is not obvious where to put that text - I can not see anything of simmilar date. Let's keep it here for the time being and sort that out later. I like the new template (top right) - this is where it belongs. Andreww 09:26, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

I have just been and got all the footnotes so far into the "recomended" template. A pain. I had one left over:

16. ^ Glossary of Tribes, p 444; Panjab Castes, p 149; cf: Census Report of India, 1880.

but it looks like it belongs to the removed text above so I'll leve it here. What we need is some proper wiki markup for references and footnotes - then we could write a proper encyclopedia. Andreww 10:51, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

You are right Andrew we need some solution for this. Imagine reorgnizing the notes in order everytime the text in the article gets reorganized. just like # system for numbered lists there should be a markup for notes numbering too. Anyways thanks for sorting out the order for now --Vyzasatya 13:42, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

The method fails to scale to an article of this size... I sugest we inline references to scripture with footnotes for secodary sources. We could then add a footnote for the first apperance of each priamary source saying what it is and what the numbers mean. But that may not be a good solution. More thinking needed. Andreww 10:16, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kambojas or Kamboyayes

Dear friends,

The term Kambojayes is used for Aryan people who settled as Scythians in modern Afghanistan and Tajikistan, including parts of the ancient Marakanda(Sogdiana), Margiana (Merv) and maybe as well for Khwarezmia (Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan), Pakistan and North-West India. This people were subordinated in three groups. Their names were Kambuji or Kambojayi, Ashvakan and Kambohs. The Kambujis spoke Avestan language and were located in modern Afghanistan, the Ashvakans spoke something like Vedic (Sanscrit) and later their language developed or picked out an own stock of the indo-iranian group of the indo-iranian languages which are today known as south eastern iranian languages like Shughni, Wakhi and Pashto (Afghanic). This people were unlike their neighbours neither Hindus nor Zarathustrians but Pagans till today. The great Al-Biruni wrote about these people, including Afghans who were one of those people who were not islamized.

the term Kambuji or Kamboja was used and today is used for Persians (Tajiks and Iranians) who spoke in modern Afghanistan the Avestan language. Later some moved to west like the historica Persians of Sistan from the Aratti region (between Iran and Afghanistan) and moved to Pars.

Nuristanis belong to Ashvakans of the Kamboyayes like Afghans and Chitral people and Ormurs while Kambujis(not Kamboyayes!!) of the aryanic Kamboyayes were zoroastrians.

The Kambohs were Hindus or they converted to Hinduism because first they were mithraists like all Aryan people.

Therefore, plz. change or correct some sources here on the article. It is important to make diff. between Ashvakan Kambojayes and the Kambuji Kambojayes or Kambohs. Nuristanis do not belong to Kambujis but to Kamboyayes.

With best Regards --84.59.4.1 14:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Give Evidence in support of your statements

Dear contributor with IP address 84.59.4.1, your statements on Kambuji/Kambojayi, Ashvakan and Kambohs are quite new, confusing and also lack evidence. Please clarify and cite sources in support of your assertions. In future, please also attach your full signatures and not the IP address.

Satbir Singh (talk) 01:20, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup per MoS

A cleanup is required here. For example, why are there over a dozen citations for one small sentence in the beginning of the second paragraph I'm not sure if it even requires one citation! Cleanup per MoS is needed. Cheers, ask123 16:51, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Heads Up - Fringe Noticeboard

There is a cadre of know-it-all editors who ~~gadfly about~~ frequent Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard, a moderately scary project that, according to the noticeboard's talkpage, prefers to operate as a "private" discussion among self-styled "fringe" experts (one admin in particular) of whether or not all mention of entire subjects should be sent to the memory-hole en masse on grounds of being "fringe"; despite multiple calls for greater transparency, their policy remains not to inform the editors on the article talkpages concerned.

I have been lurking on that page, just waiting for them to stick their heads in way too deep. It appears they have now done so, someone has just proposed all Kambojas-related pages and templates for the usual dissection / merge job, which appears to have started already. They determined it was fringe, simply because none of them have ever heard of it, and they know nothing of the subject, therefore it must be "fringe". The great mass of cited historians and sources on this page suggests to me otherwise, however. Now I will sit back again and lurk to see how you all deal with this ~~neanderthal~~ "I know nothing about this, so it must be deleted as fringe" mentality. Blockinblox (talk) 19:19, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

so you know all about Kambojas then, eh? Then feel free to help us clean up this mess. I assure you I have heard of Kambojas, I have background knowledge of the field, and I certainly have an interest in transforming this unreadable dump of OR cum literature snippets into something encyclopedic. dab (𒁳) 19:27, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I responded on my talkpage. I also struckthrough 'gadfly'; after looking it up in the dictionary just now, I see it has a worse meaning than I intended. Sorry, I should be nicer too. Blockinblox (talk) 21:30, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

no problem. --dab (𒁳) 16:02, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article scope

This article is supposed to be about the Iron Age tribe. The kingdom is discussed at Kamboja Kingdom. The name itself at Kamboja (name). The tribe's appearance in Sanskrit literature at Kambojas in Indian literature. The modern tribe at Kamboj. All are duly linked. Avoid redundancies. See WP:SS. dab (𒁳) 16:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] some order please

Satbir, please read WP:SS and WP:CFORK. There is a full article on Kambojas in Indian literature. Feel free to develop that. Do not replicate the full topic of "Kambojas in Indian literature" here. The same goes for the other sub-articles of this one. dab (𒁳) 10:37, 21 February 2008 (UTC)