Talk:Kaliyan

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Who is Kaliyan?! This article makes no reference to its intended subject. Steven McCrary 17:35, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Raja, as I understand it, Kaliyan is evil incarnate. In the Christian beliefs, Adam is not evil incarnate, Adam is a man, like you and me, but the first created. Steven McCrary 15:07, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Steve, Here in Ayyavazhi Adam is told in such a way. Likewise the (first) human birth is personifiied in such a way (Kaliyan). You told that Adam is not a evil incarnate. But there in Bible at the very first moment Adam ate the forbidden fruit, the sin starts for him. From than he is a sinner. But here in Ayyavazhi, Human from the very biggening is a sinner who incarnates.

In other words, Kaliyan is the fragment of Kroni the primordial manifestation. Kroni, as per the lines of Akilam was the first life on earth. According to Akilam all living beings have their own individuality and that is the sin which seperates them from the feeling of oneness. And Human is the being which had that more seriously. He struggles for existance and comfort than any other lving things in the world. This was ment as one sort of materialism. He works to earn for himself. This was told as evil and hence Human the foremost evil and the most cruel among the six fragments. But no doubt he is similar (perhaps the same) to Adam since he (kaliyan) was human himself. By here it was told that humans by eradicating their individuality could be able to became a part of the ultimate oneness(god) and so overcome their sin. This could only be possible after one's death (i.e) after dropping off his body which is a major sign for his individuality. So sin could not be thrown out as long as one remains as human. Hence the human form of individuality is personified as the fore most evil(kroni).

Then other point it was also told that kali came as mayai (illusion) to the world. In this connection here the individuality of humans is told as mayai. - Vaikunda ^{(<.^.>)} Raja

I am unclear about the statement: "As the time is close to the ascendancy of Kali Yukam, a sage named Guru muni told Sivan that, ..." Isn't the Kali Yukam the current yukam? Also, how can a yukam ascend? would begin be better? How about this: "As the time gres close to the beginning of the Kali Yukam, a sage named Gurumuni told Sivan (Narayana),..." Steven McCrary 15:15, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] TWO EVILS FROM THE VEDIC WORLD ...

Although the Kroni myth is relatively young (created in the 19th century), I have come across two evils with very similar names:

(1) Kaliya or Kaliyan - In the Mahabharata, Sri Krishna battled this poisonous "100 hood" Naga (serpent) as a mere child, eventually exiling him to the sea. It is all connected with the myth of Garuda, Lord Vishnu's mount and King of all Birds. I won't go into great detail about said myth, but Garuda was the son of the “Tortoise Sage,” Kashyapa, and his wife, Vinata. Because of a fixed bet, Garuda’s mother became the servant of her sister, Kadru, other wife of Kashyapa and mother of all Nagas (making them Garuda’s half brothers). Garuda saved his mother by obtaining Amrit (Nectar of the Gods) for his brothers. But in the end, the Nagas were cheated out of the Amrit, Garuda became the mount of Lord Vishnu, and the two celestial races became potent enemies.[1]

The Garuda myth then runs into the Kaliya myth. Because Garuda came to the Naga Isle to kill and eat his brothers so much, the Nagas prayed to Lord Brahma, who granted the boon that Garuda would stop his annual slaughter ONLY if the sacrifice of one Naga was left for him to eat. This sacrifice forged an uneasy truce between Garuda and the Nagas, but Kaliya, King of the Nagas (on earth), began to eat the sacrifice for himself. When Garuda came to kill Kaliya, a fierce battle ensued, which drove the Naga into the holy Yamuna River. Because of a curse enacted upon Garuda by the Sage Saubhari, he could not enter the river or he would instantly die. There Kaliya lived under the protection of the bewitched water.

From this point, Kaliya’s black poison began to kill off everything in the surrounding environment – i.e. fish, alligators, trees. Everyone in the nearby village became sick from the black clouds of poison billowing out from the holy river. So, Sri Krishna dove into the water and beat the crap out of Kaliya. Using his supernatural strength, Sri Krishna wrestled the Naga into submission, “milked” all his poison, and then exiled him to the bottom of the ocean.[2]

AND MOST IMPORTANT

(2) Kali (Demon) (Lord of Kali-Yuga) – According to the Kalki Purana, Kali is the great-great grandson of Lord Brahma. Kali was the son of Krodha (Anger) and his sister-turned-wife, Himsa (Violence). He was the grandson of Dambha (Vanity) and his sister-turned-wife, Maya (Illusion). Kali is the great-grandson of Adharma (Impropriety) and his wife, Mithya (Falsehood). Kali’s family is created by Lord Brahma in an effort to speed up the dissolution of the cosmos.

It says he is a huge being, the color of “soot,” and carries a bone as a weapon (much like Samson fought with an ass’s Jaw-Bone). Kali’s sister-turned-wife (unnamed) gave him two offspring: a son named Bhayanak (Fear) and a daughter named Mrityu (Death). His son and daughter gave him two grandchildren: a boy named Niraya (Hell) and a girl named Yatana (Torture). His entire family assumes “human form” and opens Pandora’s box, if you will, on earth. This is the onset of Kali-Yuga.

At the end of the Kalki Purana, Kali dies in battle from wounds inflicted by Satya Yuga and Dharma personified. Kalki’s generals kill all of his children and grandchildren and Kalki himself kills Kali’s most powerful generals, Koka and Vikoka (similar to the Gog and Magog of Christian Lore).

The Kaliyan of the Kroni myth is actually based upon the Kali of the Kalki Purana.Ghostexorcist 02:25, April 28, 2006

No the two are considerebly varriable to each other. But the only thing is two are similar in some aspects. ==> _Д=|Ω|=_{Д Paul}^Ỹ 18:37, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I did not mean to offend anyone when I originally posted this almost a year ago. However, Kroni's main article says he is “the spirit of Kali Yuga”. The demon Kali is mentioned in several Puranas, including the Vishnu Purana, Bhagavata Purana, Markandeya Purana and the Kalki Purana, all of which were in existance long before the coming of the Ayyavazhi religion. All of these sources say Kali is the embodiment of Kali Yuga. I think the similarities are too great to deny the possibility that one was based on the other. Since Ayyavazhi is an offshoot of Hinduism, it makes the possibility that much greater. (Ghostexorcist 22:53, 7 March 2007 (UTC))

I agree that Ayyavazhi's Kaliyan and the Hinduism's Kali (Demon) are the same evil spirit of Kali yuga. But the personofiation of that in Ayyavazhi as in a male (Kaliyan) and female(Kalicchi) resambles theAdam and Eve in Juedo-Christian Tradition. - Paul Raj 15:56, 29 July 2007 (UTC)