Talk:Kalimantan

The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Result of discussion is to Merge the content of Kalimantan into the article Borneo Gnangarra 14:19, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
There is a proposal to merge this article. I've raised it at the Indonesia project board. Do you know anyone who might be interested and can contribute? There was a German editor interested in the topic, right? Merbabu 09:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I totally and passionately agree. But I don't know who is that German editor you were talking about, sorry.... Matahari Pagi 09:06, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

That might be me (User:T.woelk). More on the roads between Hamburg and Berlin at the moment than anywhere near a place with internet access and I fear these may be so for most of the summer. If the articles are merged though I do think that the usage of the words "Borneo" and "Kalimantan" ought to be thoroughly explained. Not only the history and the origin but also the political issues these names might have today. I will try to keep an eye on the article (and related ones) but my contributions may be only few in the next weeks to come and what little time I have for the WP might be mostly spent on translating between German and English. --T.woelk 10:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Wow - finding this conversation on my talk page was well found. Anyway, can i move this to the relevant article talk page rather here for a wider audience? Yes, a thorough explanation of the terms would be required if merged. There is no official admin or political identity known as kalimantan (but there is say 'East Kalimantan') so maybe a merge is OK. Merbabu 10:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

There is a proposal to merge Kalimantan and Borneo. The articles are not clear on whether the term 'Kalimantan' applies only to the Indonesian part of the island, or whether it is the Indonesian term for the whole island of Borneo. But is not, 'Borneo', simply and old colonial anachronism? Merbabu 09:34, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's too unclear: Kalimantan is the Indonesian name for the island known to the rest of the world as "Borneo". Thus, for outsider the meaning of "Kalimantan" is simply the Indonesian part of the island of Borneo. I believe that fairly represents how I've heard the word used in English. Borneo, whatever its origin, is certainly the most common name for the island in English, and I wouldn't say anachronistic. I oppose a merge, even if the articles are somewhat redundant, just because it clarifies what it means and then goes on to say some things about (Indonesian) Kalimantan. If somebody encounters the word "Kalimantan" and wants to know what it means, it would seem clearer if they read this than if they were simply redirected to Borneo. Rigadoun (talk) 16:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know the etymology or the origin of the word "Kalimantan". But the name "Borneo" is derived from "Brunei". Personally I like Kalimantan better. Not because I am an Indonesian but because the name "Borneo" gives too much credits to Brunei. Meursault2004 17:34, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not really sure, but my teacher used to say that "Kalimantan" is Indonesian part of the island of "Borneo". The whole island which contains three different countries (Brunei, Malaysia, and Indonesia) is called "Borneo", and the Indonesian part is called "Kalimantan". He could be wrong, who knows. I'm gonna find some info from history books, hopefuly I will get some clarification. HoneyBee 18:07, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree on the merging of these articles. Borneo=Kalimantan. I still think that "Kalimantan" is the most appropriate term for the island, because my ancestors, the natives of this island, have been using that name for the whole island for ages. But I do know that "Borneo" is a more popular term for non-Indonesians, and we can't force them to use our term. Especially for English-speakers who are just plainly stubborn. Hey, if we can't force them to call Greenland "Kalaallit Nunaat", how can we make them use "Kalimantan" rather than "Borneo"? That being said, I agree with Meursault that "Borneo" is a derivation of "Brunei", when even in its golden era only covered a small part of Kalimantan (the northern part). Matahari Pagi 09:53, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Support - Rigadoun - on the basis that no one is actually citing sufficient information that sounds as if it is coming from citations or references but only personal experiences and POV issues - if the merge was done on personal experiences of editors rather than someone coming up with good clear refs/cites - we could wait for thousands of editors offering their personal experiences as well their POV linguistic prejudices. Simply making sure that good - well explained disambigs and redirects are in place can avoid most of the issues that are occurring in this discussion so far. SatuSuro 12:40, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Agree, there are no reliable sources to suggest the two are different, in fact there is very little to say at all about it that is not said on Borneo. Appropriate disambigs, etc should handle any conversion. I say 'merge'. Merbabu 13:05, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Merge Regardless of the distinction, it only makes sense to have one article for the island and separate articles for the states occypying it, i.e. Indonesia, etc. There's just too much overlap. Bendž|Ť 16:25, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Don't Merge I say - Kalimantan is an Indonesian-centric name for the island - Borneo is Bigger than Indonesia, many Malaysians, Brits, Aussies, Bruneians and Kiwis among others fought to keep Malaysian Borneo from becoming "North Kalimantan" - In Malaysia the Island is most commonly referred to as "Borneo" I also have encountered many Bruneians who call their island Borneo. The Island is Borneo, Kalimantan is just the Indonesian part. To avoid offence to Bruneians, Sabahans and Sarawakians and in the spirit of internationalism - keep the article Borneo use Kalimantan when referring to the indonesian sections of the island. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.52.80.242 (talk) 09:17, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.