User talk:Kafka Liz/Archive 2

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 Talkpage archiving 2 Kudzu 3 re your "welcome" 4 Hi 5 Fascinatio 6 Question 7 Sivas massacre 8 Ataturk's religion 9 Thank you 10 Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Franco-Mongol alliance 11 Dispute? 12 Barnstar 13 Evidence 14 Veganadam 15 Thank you 16 Valley View Ferry 17 St Anne 18 "non-event " 19 Thank you

Talkpage archiving

Hiya, FYI, I went ahead and deleted the accidental redirects of the talkpage archive. Also, as a tip, though you're welcome to create an archive at User talk:Kafka Liz/Archive 1: August - December 2007, a shorthand way of expressing that would be /Archive 1: August - December 2007/ (with both leading and trailing slashes). Although, most people would probably just choose a name of "Archive 1", since that will work better with other systems if you end up having a lot of archives in the future. But it's your talkpage, you can name your archives anything you want. :) --Elonka 20:08, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, Elonka! I'm still learning how to archive, as you can see, and much appreciate your help. I may well change the name at some point for simplicity's sake; I just thought the dates would be handy for figuring out what was in them. I'll try to read up on it some more so I don't screw it up again next time! :) Kafka Liz (talk) 20:20, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Chartophylax Liz: Thank you for the help archiving my talkpage. Yours, Aramgar (talk) 20:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

You may not want to thank me too soon... although I think I did better with yours. Kafka Liz (talk) 20:20, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Kudzu

That's certainly a good description of the issue! I'll try to take a look at the proposed rewrite when I can, I'm trying desperately to actually get some work done, and not get drawn too much into the kudzu vines. I have to admit that the Crusades are not an area of history I favored in my studies, except as it impacted Anglo-Norman and Angevin England, so I'm not too sure how much help I'm actually being. Thanks for the encouragement! Ealdgyth | Talk 03:52, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

(groans) I knew I didn't want to step into this minefield, I knew it I knew it I knew it...It'd help if I had access to more of the sources, I might be able to actually contribute more on the sources then. Ealdgyth | Talk 17:37, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Here we go again... And I notice my source issues are still unadressed. If i hadn't spent all day actually writing content... I'd be more aggressive about it. As it is.. my brain is fried. Will we ever atually discuss the article instead of watching it switch back and forth? Ealdgyth | Talk 06:14, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

re your "welcome"

I disagree with your edits but I did not attempt to undo them. Rather, I put my reaction in the talk section of the page in question. Isn't that where debates about content are supposed to go? But - correct me if I'm wrong - but you seem to feel that my initial contribution to the page was advertising and my comments in the talk section are also advertising? I may be a beginner, but where exactly should I make my case? Only on your talk page?

In terms of the self-promotion charge, I agree in principle with the Wikipedia policies, but just because something is allegedly self promotion does not mean that the original assertion (i.e. the assertion of notability) is not true. Is the concern my alleged bias or the links? The links to the off-site music sites were solely to prove the notability of the musician, not to sell product. I think over 100 songs on iTunes speaks for itself that, factually, the artist is notable. Yes, I can see now how those links seem like promotion, but when I put them in, my attitude was, if I'm trying to make my point, I ought to provide real links instead of having you/others simply trust my assertions.

So, I would submit to you: ignore or delete the links and instead Google "The Freeze" yourself. I would suggest that since "the freeze" produces many results referring to crop freezes in the south and west, that you add "punk" or "hardcore" or "Cape Cod" or similar to the search terms. Judge the notability question yourself.

Years ago, (1986) when I drove across the Sagamore Bridge, the very first highway sign on the Cape was defaced with "The Freeze" grafitti. Just a small example of Mr. Croce and his band's counter cultural impact on the Cape for almost 3 decades. "Notable" should not refer merely to people who are "established" i.e. scientists and university presidents.

Thanks.... sorry I got the tilde's wrong on the last one. Downtownboston (talk) 03:41, 22 January 2008 (UTC)Downtownboston

Hi, Downtownboston, and welcome again to Wikipedia. The "welcome" was not intended sarcastically; rather it comes from a template intended to alert relatively new users that their posts may not be entirely in keeping with Wikipedia etiquette.

First off, if you disagree with my edits, no one is stopping you from changing them: that's part of what Wikipedia is all about. In terms of explaining the reasons behind your edits, users usually put this information either on the article talk page (as you did) or in the edit summary box that appears above the "Save page" button. Please forgive me if you already know this; it can be hard sometimes to judge how familiar newer users are with Wikipedia procedure.

Regarding your initial contribution to the page, my comment was "non-notable," not "advertising" or "self-promotion." In retrospect, the "non-notable" comment may have been a bit hasty on my part -- I have been upstairs in Mr. Gorey's house and seen the work he produced for the album. I would suggest, though, that if you and Mr. Croce are one in the same, it might be wise either to leave decisions of notability to your fanbase or to consult WP:AUTO. In any case, I won't quarrel with you if you want to revert my edit. The problem with the links you provided is that they are all links to commercial sites -- sites selling the music of the band in question, and so it looks like advertising. So I removed the links but, you will notice, not your comment.

In any case, you are completely correct that notability is not restricted to "scientists and university presidents." As a short-lived roadie for the The Real Kids, I probably ought to have remembered that. Unnotably yours, Kafka Liz (talk) 04:32, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. No, this is not Clif Croce. In terms of reversing your edits, I didn't want to get in a tit for tat of edits being reversed and reversed again, so that's why I made my case.

In terms of the links, I'll repeat that I can see in hindsight how they appeared. My motivation was "what could be more mainstream than Best Buy?" In the case of eMusic, last I heard they're the #2 online retailer after iTunes, so that was also making the same argument, i.e. the band is notable enough to have 5+ albums on a site that is by no means obscure. Amazon, as many have recognized, has become the de-facto "card catalog" of published works. And iTunes, it goes without saying, is the standard for digital music by sheer market share. If anything, like most punk bands, the band would probably prefer that fans buy their music from independent retailers instead of the ones I listed, but I won't mention those indie retailers here, of course.  ;-)

Thanks again. Downtownboston (talk) 15:34, 22 January 2008 (UTC)Downtownboston

Entirely understandable. Happy editing. Kafka Liz (talk) 16:18, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi

Hi Kafka Liz, please refrain from deleting my messages, even if there is a photograph attached to it. Regards. PHG (talk) 12:10, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Since you ask, I will not. I've never seen pictures added to talk page discussions, though, and didn't think it was appropriate. But you are correct in this regard. Kafka Liz (talk) 12:15, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it's fine to condense someone else's messages, per WP:RTP, to "improve readability while retaining meaning." As for images, it depends how distracting that they are, and/or whether they're of a size that is making the page more difficult to download. Sometimes I have reduced other users' images to thumbnails for that purpose. But it's really a judgment call. --Elonka 17:09, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Fascinatio

Res maximi momenti et ponderis
This user is protected

Kafka Liz: I liked your userbox better when it was bigger. You have upset the balance a little by resizing it. Can you please change it back? Moreover, bigger probably is better when it comes to warding of fascinatio Aramgar (talk) 21:45, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm still working on fixing it. I can recreate the old one for you if you would like, but I prefer the size to be more uniform. Kafka Liz (talk) 21:47, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I couldn't repair the old template. So I totally recreated the template, but the look did not change. If you should want to make it bigger, you only have to change the size of the picture.--Thw1309 (talk) 22:34, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Question

I noticed that you supported the non-administrator rollback proposal, saying that you would like to revert vandalism more easily. I would be happy to grant you rollback, but you do know that rollback is intended to revert vandalism only and not for anything else? Acalamari 00:25, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Acalamari, and thank you for your offer! I do indeed understand that rollback is only for vandalism, not for content disputes. I was holding off requesting rollback primarily because of my current involvement at the Franco-Mongol alliance: I didn't want the cloud of anything even remotely resembling an edit war to overshadow my request. The dispute there is not the type of situation rollback was created for. That said, if you are still comfortable granting me rollback, I would be more than happy to accept it. Please let me know, and I will post a request on the appropriate page. Thanks again, Kafka Liz (talk) 14:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Rollback granted. I'm glad you understand the correct use of rollback, and for more information on the feature, see Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback and Wikipedia:Rollback feature. Good luck. Acalamari 17:21, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome! I'm sure you'll use it well. :) Acalamari 19:29, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Sivas massacre

Hi,

Well I've looked around a bit and it seems indeed he never translated the whole work, merely parts of it which he subsequently published in his column. I've edited the page accordingly. I've found numerous sources for this but as I'm not familiar with wiki source policies(i had numerous posts edited-deleted because of this) I'll leave it up to you to insert one. You might wanna look at the following:

www.juancole.com/2003/03/midnights-other-children-reading.html

New Media in the Muslim World: The Emerging Public Sphere by Dale F. Eickelman, Jon W. Anderson, p.185

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/despatches/35444.stm

Cheers kfeto —Preceding comment was added at 18:21, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for responding to me. I'll check the sources and see how we can work them in. I've had some difficulty finding good English language sources on this, so I really appreciate your help! Kafka Liz (talk) 18:29, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Ataturk's religion

Well acording to various types of articles and theories over the net many have claimed that Ataturk was actually a Jew rather than a Muslim. Quote: "It's My Secret Prayer, Too," He Confessed, when read Shema Yisrael. Have a look at the website, I wont change his religion but just have a look mate, thanks. http://radioislam.org/islam/english/jewishp/turkey/ataturkjew-1.htm Moshino31 (talk) 15:56, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Moshino31. I have heard this particular rumor before, but the sources you've provided, particularly Jew Watch, are not considered scholarly or reliable. I'm not going to speculate on why Jews or Muslims might wish to claim Ataturk was Jewish, but it's not something that's been mentioned in any of the available scholarly biographies. Kafka Liz (talk) 16:51, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

		My RfA
		Thank you very much for your support in my RfA which I really appreciate. It closed at 83/0/0. I was surprised by the unanimity and will do my best to live up to the new role. All the best, --ROGER DAVIES talk 16:49, 5 February 2008 (UTC) The patio at the Partal Palace in the Alhambra, Andalucia.

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Franco-Mongol alliance

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Franco-Mongol alliance/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Franco-Mongol alliance/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, — Rlevse • Talk • 22:16, 5 February 2008 (UTC), note User:Thatcher is the clerk, not me, I'm just opening for him. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:16, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to use my name in the ArbCom case. I'm still on the fence about submitting, mainly since most of it is content related, but have no issues with someone else using examples involving me. Ealdgyth | Talk 02:00, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Ealdgyth, I'm sorry - I hope you didn't feel I was treading on your toes by mentioning you! I tried to limit my initial presentation mostly to my direct experience, but there were a couple of places where your comments were part of that. Kafka Liz (talk) 02:07, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Heh. They were so unobrustive that I didn't notice them and was scared you were limiting your evidence by trying to NOT step on my toes! Go ahead and step. I'm not that concerned. I've just been REAL busy this weekend and haven't had a chance to do anything with the kudzu patch.Ealdgyth | Talk 02:09, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, then. There's certainly more I can add -- just have to hunt out all the diffs! :) Kafka Liz (talk) 02:20, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Dispute?

At the Aïbeg and Serkis article: to put a "Disputed" tag in, please describe what you actually dispute. This is getting quite ridiculous to see such reactions everytime more info is brought forward about the Mongols... Regards PHG (talk) 14:49, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, the phone rang before I got to post on the talk page. :) Regarding the Latin of the texts, there are several Wikipedians who read Latin, so perhaps you could find one you trust to confirm the letters' contents for you. Kafka Liz (talk) 14:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar

You're welcome! :) Acalamari 20:14, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Evidence

Hopefully what i just posted helps. Let me know if I botched something terribly? Ealdgyth | Talk 03:45, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to post this! I've been too swamped this week to do much on-wiki, so I haven't had a chance to add to my evidence. Yours looks ok to me so far. One think I noticed was that the link about Edward I makes it look like Stijn Calle inserted the text about the Mongols. Can you find the earlier diff where PHG added this information? Apart from that, you might consider breaking it down a little and condensing it to make it easier for the ArbCom (who both really busy and also not as familiar with the case as we are) to digest. Your concerns do come across clearly though, so it definitely helps. Thanks again, Kafka Liz (talk) 13:15, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Veganadam

HALP!!! - CobaltBlueTony™ _talk 20:55, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for the nice words. :) Acalamari 00:17, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Valley View Ferry

On 20 February 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Valley View Ferry, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 20:27, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

St Anne

I'll have a look around in the next few days. User:MishaPan is an Orthodox priest & may be able to help. Johnbod (talk) 02:32, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

"non-event "

Hi Kafka Liz. Sorry to bother you again, but as far as I know the expression "non-event" is not used by Sylvia Schein in relation to the Franco-Mongol alliance in general, but only to the very specific event of the capture of Jerusalem in 1300 and its supposed remittance to the Christians. I am confident you would pursue me to the end of the world with claims of "distortion of sources" if I myself did something of the sort :). Best regards PHG (talk) 14:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi PHG. I am aware of how she uses the phrase. My use of it was merely a sly reference to the subtitle of her 1979 article. My apologies if this was unclear. On a side note, I am touched by your confidence in my dedication to pursuing you. It attributes me a stamina and single-mindedness I did not know I possessed. :) Kafka Liz (talk) 14:48, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

No problem. But are you sure it is quite legitimate to reference Schein to qualify the Franco-Mongol alliance as a "non-event"? Regards. PHG (talk) 14:51, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I repeat, I wasn't referencing her to that end, merely borrowing a phrase. Kafka Liz (talk) 14:55, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, but isn't it distorting what Schein actually writes? I don't known, but it might be interpreted as a bit abusive, playing with sources like this... As far as I know, nobody ever said the alliance was a "non-event". On another note, would you happen to be from Turkey? PHG (talk) 14:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll add a note to my statement to clarify my intent. I don't believe I was playing with sources, abusively or otherwise, as I was neither writing an article nor making an argument. I am not from Turkey, but I have travelled there quite a bit and am studying the language. Kafka Liz (talk) 15:07, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! No big deal really. PHG (talk) 16:09, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you, Kafka Liz, for your support in my RfB. I appreciate your trust. Acalamari 22:02, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, RfA/Bs can be very hard, even if they're going extremely well (my second RfA, despite its huge success, was still a rough experience), but they do provide good advice. With the RfB though, I felt it was best to withdraw this time around. I'll see what happens next time though. Thanks again. Acalamari 19:54, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.