Talk:Kabir

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[edit] Possible additions

  • Amarkantak
  • The followers of Kabir are called Kabir panthi.
  • Kabir panthi and organisations across the world. See religions among Fiji population.

Npindia 15:38, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Kabir is claimed to be Sufi and Hindu. He can't be both. Let's take his word on the issue: He's Neither. --LordSuryaofShropshire 18:31, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC)

I added a few hopefully useful facts about Kabir, with a comment on his current popularity (M.K.)

Please stop implying that Kabir borrowed ideas from Sufi Muslims. Hinduism and raja yoga pre-date Islam by many, many years. Its far more likely that Kabir's ideas arose from Hindu ideals. --Palwan 18:34, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

What's "more likely" isn't always true. The fact that "Hinduism and raja yoga pre-date Islam by many, many years" does not mean that Islam could not have influenced Kabir. Although the dates for his life are uncertain, he did live during a period that came several hundred years after Islam came to South Asia. Kabir himself would probably scoff that his ideals arose from Hindu ideals, just as he is likely to scoff at the suggestion that his ideals are Islamic! Sarayuparin 21:16, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Birth and death years

The article currently says Kabir was born in 1398 and died in 1518, which means that he lived to be 120 years old. Only two other people in recorded history have been shown to have lived that long, so if this is true, then it needs to be sourced (by a RELIABLE source, not just any old source). --Hnsampat 20:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Image

Does anyone else find the image on this page to be utterly ridiculous? Why in the world is that included? Algabal 01:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't like it either. Ironically, too reverential for Kabir. There is an image at [1] that might be public domain. It might be worthwhile to contact the professor who manages that site to check on permissions and copyright data for the image. Sarayuparin 21:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't see what's wrong with it, Jesus has some pretty reverent images as well. Zazaban 21:48, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

It's just really bizarre looking. It's from a magazine cover. Just totally inappropriate. Algabal 18:16, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible problem

Regarding the Robert Bly "versions," and "fabulous" comment, I came across a claim that Bly plagiarizes the R. Tagore translation of 1915: www.suite101.com/reference/underhill

Robert Bly's Folly- The Ward Churchill of poetry: Robert Bly's so-called translations amount to little more than plagiarism of the authentic translators' works. This article focuses on Bly's misrepresentation of Kabir through Bly's revisions of the far superior translations of Rabindranath Tagore and Evelyn Underhill.

I edited out the "fabulous" comment as inappropriate, but I'll try to look into this before any further editing. N.B. Miller 03:03, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

How is "most interesting personalities" NPOV?

[edit] Origins

Why is Kabir's origins not in the articles. from what I know, he was born or placed in a river or a pond. No details are there regarding his life, parents.--Agεθ020 (ΔT • ФC) 21:28, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Then why not check some reputable sources and put some in? Rumiton 11:19, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Kabir was probably born out of Muslim parents. The repeated attempted of Hinduisation of different sects and religions by Brahmins in India might have been reason behind claiming Kabir's hindu origins.- Joe

"was probably" is not factual, and what is the meaning of "repeated attempts of Hinduism"? Forfathers living where Kabir was born say he was born to a Brahmin lady and was adopted by a muslim potter's family. If using such religious references is disputable, it is better to not mention it all and just state that he was adopted by a potter's family, till it is factually established. His guardian parents were not weavers but makers of pottery. He was found on the banks of Ganga in Varanasi, was illiterate and grew to be revered as a saint. This is similar to Sai Baba of Shirdi whose birth and parental origins are unclear, but their reverence and works are. I hope these corrections are accepted.--Girish.shukla (talk) 12:35, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kabir and Nanak - not neutral

The reason that Bhagat Kabirs bani was included in Guru Granth Sahib, does not mean he was a major inspiration behind Sikhism. His verses were included by the fifth Guru, some 100 years after kabir or Nanak. The fifth guru also included the verses of another fourteen saints.He included Only one verse of a Saint.While doing so he rejected verses of many saints such as Mira Bai.

Does that mean that all of fifteen saints were a major inspiration behind sikhism? NO. The reason their verses were included because they were similar to the philosophy of the Gurus of Sikhs.

About Kabir , only those verses of Kabir were included, which taught the similar message being taught by the Sikh Gurus, and many of his verses were rejected.

Kabir was a great Saint and is reverred by Sikhs, but only because his verses are in Guru Granth Sahib.If he would have been a major inspiration , than Sikhs would have been known as Kabirpanthis or something similar to that.Ajjay (talk) 05:18, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

You make an interesting point, but the claim that Kabir was an inspiration for Sikhism is backed up by a reference. If you have a reference for your counter-claim that Kabir was not an inspiration for Sikhism, please mention it. Otherwise, it unfortunately can't be included, because it would be considered original research. -kotra (talk) 21:47, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] DOB entirely wrong

The date of birth of Saint Kabir is 1398 and not 1440.The reference in this article for 1440 as dob is encyclopedia britannica, i don't know the source of that encyclopedia, but it is certain that they have gotten their facts entirely wrong.It would be interesting to know their source of this wrong information.

It is certain that the dob of Kabir is not known with certainity , as is his early life history.It is however certain that he flourished during the fifteenth century.Therefore assumptions have been drawn to his exact date of birth.

Kabirpanthis hold that he lived for 120 years and was born close to the end of fourteenth century or the beggining of fifteenth century.Historicaly , in India, the country he was born in and lived in, he is held to be born in 1398.This date is accepted by majority or almost all of Indian historians.Ajjay (talk) 06:44, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

It's possible that Encyclopedia Britannica is wrong, but WP's policy is verifiability, not truth. On the other hand, this means that if you have a reliable source that puts his DoB as 1398, then you're perfectly welcome to change it. -kotra (talk) 21:54, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wording changes

I made some changes to the wording here because the previous version had incorrect spelling and grammar, and to avoid plagiarism of the source. I tried to keep the meaning of the sentences the same. These edits were reverted, so I thought I should explain my edits further. The meaning is still the same, I merely corrected the spelling and grammar, and switched out some words (that had the same meaning), to avoid any question of plagiarism. If there are any specific problems with my changes, please describe them here so they can be addressed. Until then, I'm reinstating my version (but keeping "mistakingly" which was added later). -kotra (talk) 19:47, 17 January 2008 (UTC)