User talk:Juve2000

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[edit] Welcome

Hello, Juve2000, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Wikipedia Boot Camp, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Kukini 07:21, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Terry the dog

Hi there. No problem. By the way, you can sign messages on Talk pages by using four tildes like this: ~~~~. Thanks. —Whouk (talk) 12:33, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serie A

Why have you reverted changes and stated that Juventus won the last two titles? They have just been stripped of them and the champions for those two season is not decided yet. Either way it's not gonna be Juve. Jimmmmmmmmm 21:02, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Message you left for Jimmmmmmmmm

Hi Juve2000 - Please leave messages for other editors on their talk pages rather than their main user pages. It's more polite, and they're more likely to see a message on the talk page because a notice will pop up for them. I moved your message for Jimmmmmmmmm onto his talk page. Thanks, and see you around. - Tapir Terrific 23:25, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Re: your message: No problem! I just noticed it while going through the Recent Changes log - I tend to pay attention to user pages being edited by others because that's often a sign of vandalism, so it caught my eye. I figured it was just a mistake, though, so no worries! - Tapir Terrific 01:30, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coppa Italia

I changed the table of contents to the way you want it to be, with the '2006/2007 Italian Cup Season' being the 4th heading, and the quarters being subheadings of it, I also changed the Arezzo-Perugia game to its previous state, where it would let people know that the game ended 0-0 after 120 minutes. --- Tha Eastsydah 19:38, August 20 2006 (UTC)
We could use the Champions League style chart for all the games from the Round of 16 until the Final, it's a good idea actually, but we will see what we are going to do after the 3rd round. --- Tha Eastsydah 20:34, August 10 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bracket

Good catch on the home/away detail on the bracket I added to Coppa Italia 2006-07. I had used the PDF bracket released by the Lega Calcio and copied it exactly. I went back and redid the bracket so that the top team in each pairing was the home team in the first leg. I don't know if brackets will be feasible for this next year's Coppa; I suppose we'll have to wait until the Lega Calcio releases more information. —Ed Cormany 01:00, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Municipalities/Communes/Comunes/Comuni

Hi Juve, It’s curious that none of these terms feels quite right and that each one of them is felt to be absolutely wrong or silly to at least some people. (It’s actually ‘municipality’ that I find really awkward, which I imagine has something to with my being English.)

As I said to Carlossuarez46 (whose message you will have seen on my talk page above yours, and whose preference is for ‘comune’ with anglicised plural ‘comunes’) it might be worth reviving the most recent discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(settlements)#English_form_of_the_Italian_word_comune. I imagine that would be the best place to attempt to achieve a consensus. You might need to mention to people who were involved in the discussion that it had been rebooted.

However, there are a few similar discussions scattered around and they tend to end up half-agreeing on a different word each time. Personally I tend to use ‘commune’, because that’s the word my Collins Concise dictionary recommends for such municipalities in France, Belgium and Italy.

Good luck! It would certainly be useful to standardize the names of the various categories and lists; and, indeed, to standardize the structure of the category trees across the various regions: the Italian Wikipedia has them much better organized than ours.

By the way, I am curious to know which of my edits led you to my talk page. I tend to imagine that what I write in article space will remain unread for years.

Cheers! —Ian Spackman 22:10, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
P.S. If we were starting from scratch, I’d be rather in favour of taking a more unstructured approach to writing about places in Italy. After all, outside of the info boxes we don’t write much about local government; and probably the last thing a reader wants to know about Pollenzo is whether it’s a comune, a frazione, a località, a municipio, a vocabolo (that’s new one on me—I’ve just found it in it:Frazione comunale), a rione, a municipalità, a circonscr… |falls asleep|.

  • I always forget how to respond to these things. Does me editing my own 'user talk' end up on yours, or do I have to create a new heading on your 'user talk'? If I get no response from this, I will know its the latter. I will take your advice and open the discussion on the word 'commune'. I guess I dislike it because I associate the word with communist collective farming or hippy retreats. In my view, an Italian 'comune' is no different than, lets say, a Canandian municipality or city for that matter. They both have mayors and a city council. A frazione, to me, is an italian town that doesn't have its own government, and is dependent on the 'comune'.
  • As for how I found you, I noticed you edited my revision of the Serie D (italian soccer) page. I have no complaints, but I'm curious how you came across my changes. I would have expected those that had recently edited the same page to be the first to make any improvements to my editing.
  • I still have so much to learn about Wikipedia. Talk to you soon. Juveboy 00:04, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Ah, Serie D. I would have been watching that because I have made a few edits to Italian football clubs (either because they belong to places that interested me, or because something random took me there) and when one of them, A.S. Casale Calcio, got relegated from Serie C I thought I had better find out how significant a drop that was. (Interesting that the word Serie entered the English language so quickly, when we could quite easily have translated it as ‘Division’.)
As for the C-word, a problem for British English speakers is that all of the alternatives are pretty alien or technical. We don’t commonly talk about English ‘municipalities’. I think that when writing about a settlement it’s usually better to use terms like ‘city’, ‘town’, ‘village’ or ‘hamlet’, when it’s clear which of those applies. But quite often, even when not talking about the (fairly dreary) subject of local government, you do have to use an equivalent for comune. For instance when its used in the territorial sense—to describe the permitted production zones of a DOC wine or a DOP cheese, say. To talk about sheep grazing in a municipality seems very weird to me, though it may well be perfectly idiomatic in Canadian English. Sometimes here, too, circumlocutions are possible: ‘the vineyards surrounding the seven villages A,B,C…’. But it’s not always that simple.
By the way, I do think that you editors of Italian football articles are doing a great job. There’s an extraordinarily wide coverage, even of very minor teams. And the social-historical aspects are often fascinating even to lapsed fans like myself. (My own team, Swindon Town, got relegated last season, too.) Cheers! —Ian Spackman 10:37, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject:Italian Football

Hi ya. I see you add to Italian Football articles from time to time. Just wondering if you want to check out Wikipedia:Italian Football. We are just hoping to organise our efforts towards improving articles better. If you want to sign up just put your name down under participants on the project. You can do as much or as little work as you like and any ideas on improving pages would be great. Niall123 19:10, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't mind signing up, but I do not know how to 'contribute' to the project. What exactly is done here? Juveboy 18:19, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serie B 2006-07 goalscorers

Hi JuveBoy. Certainly I remember you: you’re a Canadian aren�’t you? I don’t know whether I am a good person to ask, but here’s what I see. If I’ve understood the page history, so far only one anonymous user on one occasion has removed the club totals. You then re-inserted them because you thought they were useful. So nothing you could call a problem yet. Just a minor disagreement. But obviously you don’t want it to spiral out of control. (And skirmishes between just two editors can be the hardest to resolve because neither can be outvoted and walking away can look like bottling out.)

The first question to ask yourself is: which style do you think is the best? Does including club totals add to the article, or does it detract from the article by overloading it with extraneous information? There are arguments on both sides and be absolutely open to changing your mind! Also, is there really a standard? (There’s no rule to say that every article has to be formatted in the same way, but if lots and lots of similar lists are formatted in one way there is reason to follow that convention.)

If by then I had decided the anon was right I would change the format of the article to ‘his’ (or her) style along with an edit summary saying ‘Reformatted: on second thoughts I agree with [whoever]’.

But if I still thought I was right I think I would put a short note on the article’s talk page explaining why I preferred to include club totals, but adding that I was perfectly open to persuasion and inviting people to give their opinions. Then if the anon changed it again I would revert him, but include a polite note asking him to put his arguments on the talk page before changing again.

Another good approach would be ask for comments on the WikiProject Italian Football talk page. I am sure there are people there who would be happy to express their views.

(My view on the substantive issue, by the way, is that including the club totals is useful because it strikes me that it must be easier to score a lot of goals for a high-scoring team.)

Finally, the brilliant thing about this from your point of view is that it proves that someone is actually reading the page you have put the work into! I am sure that that is not always the case. I did quite a lot of work recently on a List of Italian Cheeses (it takes all sorts!). I imported it, following a pointer from an anon user on a talk page, from the Dutch Wikipedia and then went through it formatting, turning all the red-links into sensible red-links for the English-language ’pedia, starting to get sources for the cheeses (it is such a long list that it looks like a prank, especially when it includes cheeses with names like Bastardo di Grappa), adding a few new cheeses, etc., etc. I plan to do more work on it—adding or expanding descriptions, finding sources, clarifying which names are actually synonyns, reformatting (though I keep changing my mind as to what format would be the best. But: no-one else has edited it. Not even a robot!

Sorry for rambling. But keep up the good work, and enjoy doing it. —Ian Spackman 21:33, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serie B

I agree that this page should be kept. I think there are a number of users who called for the Serie B detailed page to be deleted yet called for the Football Championship results to be kept. If you get maybe another vote or 2 to retain, the page won't be deleted on the grounds that no concensus was reached. Niall123 16:24, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serie A deletion

You better have a look at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/La Liga 2006/2007 results December 2006. Basically a non footballing wikipedian has nominated the detailed results sections of Serie A and La Liga for deletion. I'm personally totally against them being deleted. I've voted to keep the pages and I just thought I'd highlight this as you might want to vote either way on this. Thanks Niall123 18:38, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Basically a few non footballing guys with Administrator ambitions went around looking for things to delete. They saw the results and goalscorers pages and thought they were prime material for deletion. One guy even went and changed the rules of wikipedia just to strenghten his case for deletion. Add in a group of guys from the Football wikiproject who don't seem to add anything to wikipedia and all they seem to do is constantly vote of deletion pages in regards to football. NO real concencus was reached in reality, in fact, the majority vote in all cases was to keep, yet they all still got deleted. Niall123 18:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I too found it very unusual that no reason was given. As I've said, the guy who nominated it is a wannabe Administrator and I think he's on a mission to show everyone how he's a marvelous wikipedian. I'm going to keep an eye on him. If he runs for admin, I'll vote against him. Niall123 19:30, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Juventus F.C. 2006-07 season

You might want to see if you can expand the article to more then just an article. Maybe something about the scandal. Kingjeff 00:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

But that is very relevent to this season for Juve. Kingjeff 00:54, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Serie C

Thanks; however, it was User:Daddy Kindsoul who splitted Serie C into Serie C1 and Serie C2. I just set up articles for the current season for all divisions from Serie C1 to Eccellenza. --Angelo 22:45, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Serie D playoffs

The answer is: the two playoffs finalists, and only these two ones, are placed at the top of the special table of replacement teams. So, in case three teams are cancelled by the federation, the first two to be elected for admission to Serie C2 are the two Serie D playoff finalists, and the third is not necessarily a playoff semifinalist. It's unclear if they would be admitted to Serie C2 in any case (there's a difference of views between the Serie C League and the Italian Non-League Association). --Angelo 17:07, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Serie B 2006/07

Hi! In every other 2006/07 season articles the participating clubs are placed before the classification. Why should we change it? CapPixel 13:00, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I moved the 2006/07 clubs from the general Serie C1 and Serie C2 pages to the specific seasons, as it has more sense. Anyway, during the season, also in Serie B the clubs were before the calssification and that was changed a couple of months ago, I think. Anyway, on the Italian Football project talk page we had agreed to take the Serie A 2006/07 season article as a model for the other seasons articles. I think the team details should be first for basically two resons: the participating teams are decided before the start of the season and the final classifications and ususally the "protagonists" are presented at the beginning of the "story".

Anyway I agree to move the discussion to the task force talk page, but I think it's not a major issue. CapPixel 13:50, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Serie D seasons

How far back does Serie D go? I can make the template quickly if you like. пﮟოьεԻ 57 15:40, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry - I've worked it out: {{Serie D seasons}}. пﮟოьεԻ 57 15:48, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I'd prefer to leave them as redlinks, as even if they aren't filled in, it shows how far back the league goes, plus someone might be tempted to find out! пﮟოьεԻ 57 15:57, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
By current format, I assume you mean the other Italian ones. As far as I'm aware, they and a couple of others are the only ones which do not conform to the standard version. And if we don't have standardisation within the same topic, where are we left? пﮟოьεԻ 57 18:27, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I assumed it was standard as it appears to be well laid out and appears in the largest templates, e.g. {{The Football League Seasons}} and {{FA Cup Seasons}}. You're more than welcome to bring up the issue on WT:FOOTY if you're unhappy. пﮟოьεԻ 57 18:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
If anything, the onus is on the people reverting. If someone makes a change and one doesn't like it, you have to have a decent reason (beyond not liking it) to change back to the original, especially when you consider that people might have spent a good amount of time coding such changes. If everyone reverted every time they saw an edit they didn't like, we wouldn't get very far. пﮟოьεԻ 57 18:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
PS. Although the ones I gave an example above are only a year old, I reckon they are probably the oldest ones around. The whole "seasons" article phenomenon only took off fairly recently. As you can see from the history, the Serie A one was only created at the end of April. пﮟოьεԻ 57 18:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Serie B Template

I think he's using a standard for other wikis, not for the english one. And telling the true, I don't really like the "new" layout. I think we should take the issue on the football project page. CapPixel (talk) 17:14, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Then, ok. Anyway the alignment that Number57 is using isn't the one agreed there. CapPixel (talk) 18:39, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
The main problem with Number57's version I feel is in someways specific to the Italian articles. The way its aligned looks messy mostly because lots of the Italian leagues start in a season with "9" on the end, so it leaves an entire row with just one season making it look wrong. - Ordinaria (talk) 07:47, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Serie A template

I think the way you left it (here) was fine. It would appear that User:CapPixel also agrees to this now (along with all but one editor on WP:FOOTY, so can we agree to use the decade alignment, but with 100% font. I don't really fancy any more edit warring :) пﮟოьεԻ 57 14:26, 7 June 2008 (UTC)