Talk:Justice Commandos Against Armenian Genocide
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[edit] Comments
[edit] Guerilla organization?
I realize that the definition of the organization was changed from "terrorist" to "guerilla". Do not guerilla organizations operate on their own territory? JCAAG operated all over the world. Is the attribute "guerilla" correct? CeeGee 10:53, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
You are right, it is definitely not guerilla. We can use militant for now. If you have references, we can also say that it is/was in the terrorist organisanitions list of country X (until year Y). deniz 16:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] ARA
I deleted some part of text related to ARA cuz: 1) ARA and JCAG are not the same organizations. 2) the only reference (MITP Ter. Base) is false- there isnt any text in this page about current functioning of ARA organization in Karabakh or in Azerbaijan. --User:Andranikpasha, 1:08, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- This link takes me to a page to buy an article http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F40711FE3A5D0C728FDDAE0894DB484D81 Does anybody know whats the title of the said article or have the text? If not I'm going to remove it. VartanM 04:35, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Denizz I actually don't see the need for Comparison to ASALA. What does JCAG has to do with ASALA? besides the fact that they both were Armenia. --VartanM 08:07, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Denizz terrorist is one of the words in WP:words to avoid. It doesn't matter if your talking about them here or in ASALA article you should avoid that term As I mentioned above. Whats the point of having a a comperasion in this article? and the sources supporting the claims are invalid --VartanM 00:53, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
- Designated as terrorist is not WTA, just like claimed by X is not, where as 'claim' is. 01:35, 28 August 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Denizz (talk • contribs)
[edit] Merge proposal
I have suggested a merge from Dogan Turkman because I feel that Turkman, who was barely injured in the attack, is not notable in his own right. Jlittlet 16:54, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
- I'll support a merge but this article already has that information. The rest is unsourced text about a living person and must be deleted unless it can be sourced with reliable sources.
- "February 6, 1980 - Turkish Ambassador to Switzerland Doğan Türkmen was attacked in Bern, Switzerland. Türkmen escaped with minor wounds.'"
- --VartanM 17:07, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
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- Surely, especially as I see the article "Dogan Turkman" is repeated the text here and its importance is dubious! Ill suggest its deletion! Andranikpasha 17:51, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
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A proper AFD is needed if you think that the notability is not satisfied. DenizTC 07:00, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Refrence #8
The MIPT website source ueses the following sources to support its claims.
"Armenian Terrorist Groups Said to be Planning Actions Against Azerbaijani Diplomats," Zerkalo (translated from Russian), (Baku, Azerbaijan)
"Turkey's Delegate Writes to UN About Continuing 'Armenian Terrorism' Threat," Anatolia, (Ankara, Turkey)
"The Tashnak Terrorist Organization," Republic of Turkey, Ministry of Culture
Patterns of International Terrorism: 1982, U.S. Department of State
"Azerbaijan Profile," CIA World Factbook, Central Intelligence Agency
"Armenian Lobby Collects Donations for Release of Arikan Assassin," Turkish Daily News, (Ankara, Turkey)
Patterns of Global Terrorism: 1987, U.S. Department of State
Patterns of Global Terrorism: 1988, U.S. Department of State
Patterns of Global Terrorism: 1989, U.S. Department of State
How is this a neutral source? I have no problem using the U.S Department of State source but the rest are not neutral. VartanM 06:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
- I removed the part about ARA targeting Azerbaijan. The source was referring to "Zerkalo" newspaper speculation. No reliable sources support this idea. There is no indication that the group still operates. Its pure speculation. VartanM 22:45, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
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- I also tagged the NY Times source as dubious, I find the whole section about comparison to ASALA as Original research. I will gladly reconsider my position, if someone provides me with the text of the said article. VartanM 22:51, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
I removed the Comperasion section because it contained OR and unverifiable sources. VartanM 04:37, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
- Just remove OR, and statements supported by those 'unverifiable sources' then. DenizTC 11:06, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Denizz, the comparison of JCAG and ASALA is a fully OR, its why it must be deleted. There isnt need to compare JCAG with any other organization here! Why to compare JCAG with ASALA (even I dont know a source which is comparing them)? then why to not continue OR and compare JCAG with ARA, New Armenian Resistance etc., or f.e. with RAF? The original comparison of 2 organizations which never contacted each other is not OK.Andranikpasha 12:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
You can't have an unsourced section comparing the two, that's original synthesis. It isn't up to us, the editors, to draw these comparisons. El_C 12:21, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- [1], [2] (to a lesser extent) Google is a nice thing. By the way, the section was not an unsourced section. Also Andranik, did you pay attention to my message about the images? Thanks if you did. By the way, we can get rid of the section header, if that's the one you guys think that causes the OR. DenizTC 13:30, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- I stand corrected. But those refs are not readable, please see my note. El_C 13:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- Incidentally, "The ARA has reportedly formed cells in order to attack Azerbaijani diplomatic corps in South America and the states of the former Soviet Union"[3] [4] is a copyrights violation. You can't lift whole sentnces without attribution. Please dont do that again. El_C 13:50, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Denizz, again you added the same original research of comparison just by deleting the name! I cant understand why we need a description and comparison with ASALA? the two sources you asked are surely unreliable [5] (so called "Ethnic Terror Information Center"- no any descrition on the site, seems to be a biased personal page) [6] ("This is the look of my original home page, very dated and full of nostalgia for the pioneering days of the web."). Denizz, as I know you're an experienced user, so pls for future aware of using personal pages to prove something. Sorry but this section must be deleted as we cant to compare all the organizations even existed especially if they never have any relations and co-operation (both were Armenian- nothing more, but as I asked earlier, we have more Armenian organizations which we can also to compare as an original research). Andranikpasha 15:13, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Denizz, also without any explanation you readded the source [7] cited:
- Zerkalo (translated from Russian), (Baku, Azerbaijan)
- "Turkey's Delegate Writes to UN About Continuing 'Armenian Terrorism' Threat," 05/14/2001, Anatolia, (Ankara, Turkey)
- "The Tashnak Terrorist Organization," 01/01/2004, Republic of Turkey, Ministry of Culture
Do you know what means partisan, unreliable sources? And do you remember, that we already discussed in the same talk page and then deleted the readded by you quotation earlier?Andranikpasha 15:38, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- WP:V Also, of course they are reliable (don't know about Zerkalo), even a 'reliable' site deemed them reliable. If you think like that (partisan stuff), go delete 90% of the content of many Armenia related articles. Read WP:NPOV. Please revert, I don't want to revert again. This is probably my last reminder about your images, please resolve those issues. I will probably not edit (much) for a few days. DenizTC 16:05, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Denizz, thanks for the links to WIKI rules (I already knew them). Do you mean this quotation from WP:V - "Self-published material may, in some circumstances, be acceptable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications." This all is against unreliable and OR addings by you which must be deleted!
This is not a simple Armenian or simple Turkish article, its related to the conflict acvtivities, so we must aware of using extremely partisan sources. Imagine if we start to use Zerkalo, Turkish Weekly or a partisan Armenian paper at f.e. Nagorno-Karabakh.Andranikpasha 20:04, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
I reverted the (unsourced) "terrorist" term per WP:WTA. Andranikpasha (talk) 16:55, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
