Talk:Juneteenth

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Very glad this article's here: we don't have this in my home state (Michigan) so I was introduced to it once I came here to Texas. Edited the line, "Juneteenth has its origins in Texas, where it was primarily celebrated for more than a century." and reworked to clarify. Thinking specifically about how it may read to someone who has learned English but does not use it colloquially. I understood what it was saying and so will most Americans, but since the site is read throughout the world, it may be confusing to other readers. Specifically the word primarily/primary, and think of it in the definitive sense, "of first rank". They might read the line more literally and think that Juneteenth is the most important of all Texas holidays, when there are several very important dates. Noirdame 17:18, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Controversial?

I work for the local school board, and I'm currently in the process of preparing the school teachers' calendar. I added Juneteenth to the holidays listed this year (not all are school holidays, but a lot of them are included). My boss told me to remove it, claiming that Juneteenth is controversial and that many African Americans object to the name "Juneteenth". I have been unable to find anything on the web to support this view. Does anyone have any idea what my boss is on about? I was also forced to remove Chinese New Year and some other miscellaneous non-"standard" holidays. — Amcaja 20:46, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

  • In all of my searching for stuff to add to the article and searches for sourcing and whatnot, this is the first that I've heard of Juneteenth being controversial and the name being objectionable. Quite frankly, it sounds like a load of crap. --Vengeful Cynic 21:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I think your boss was mistaken and/or caught in the throes of political correctness. I'm sure you cna find some people who will claim anything is controversial, but I know of no broad controvery over this holiday. We have many links here to groups celebrating the holiday. I see no mention of a controversy. I see plenty of African Americans (and non-African Americans) supporting the holiday. If you follow the link at the bottom of the page to the commons, you will see soem US Congressmen observing the event, including one campaigning for it to be a national holiday. As to the other events, maybe he/she just wants to cut down on clutter. It is true that basically every day of the year is some sort of Hallmark holiday, or else a holiday that may be very important to a sub-set of people, but unknown to many. Happy Summer solstice, by the way. Johntex\talk 00:09, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Accuracy

Is Juneteenth an official holiday in any state other than Texas? If it is, we should name those states. If it isn't, we shouldn't imply that it is by saying that it is "an annual holiday in some states of the United States." - Nunh-huh 03:27, 22 June 2006 (UTC) - adding info from what I've found to article. - Nunh-huh 03:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Connecticut doesn't have this listed, why not?

The Wiki page says this is a state holiday for Connecticut. CT's website doesn't list it. Can we make them list it?

http://www.ct.gov/ctportal/cwp/view.asp?a=843&q=246434

  • There seems to be a distinction between an "official holiday" and a "legal holiday". Our source saying CT has this as a holiday is here. I'm guessing CT acknowledges the day as a day of importance, but does not close government offices for the day. I will try to clarify this in the article. Johntex\talk 16:51, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
  • In fact, even in Texas, it is only a "partial staffing holiday" and state offices do not close.[1] - Johntex\talk 17:03, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] One thing should be noted

I think it should be noted that some (or alot) of Black Americans are forgetting the meaning of juneteeth. My dad said that the last juneteeth there was a shooting, and I think 5 people got killed or wounded...Angelofdeath275 11:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Violence

Lots of mob violence associated with Juneteenth celebrations throughout the US. Would be good to have an accompanying list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tigercap (talk • contribs)

If you've got references, sure. CJ 18:14, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
There are different violent incidents:

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrand (talk • contribs)

Unless we're going to start tagging all the other holidays and celebrations with all violent incidents, I think doing so with Juneteenth would seem to be pushing a POV. For example, the NBA playoffs does not note this [6] and the fourth of july has seen many riots:
* [7]
* [8]
* [9]
* [10]
Studerby 23:44, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
IU'm removing the violence section. These incidents happened in one year and don't seem to have any real relation to the holiday. At best, the incidents are useless. At worst, they perpetuate a stereotype that you can't get a bunch of us darkies together with violence ensuing.Scott Free 00:46, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
  • shrug* I don't see a problem with it either way. I don't object to it being removed. You don't have to preserve it either. The history does that. CJ 01:00, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I srrongly agree that including a violence section perpetuates a stereotype about violent "darkies." Many festivals are "marred by violence," and many Juneteenth celebrations are not marred by it. Tney only get a lot of media attention when they are because such incidents feed into the non-black fear of blacks. --Willie Mink, 6/21/07

If you go to an updated link (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8PT5C3O0&show_article=1&catnum=0) for the Austin incident, it's stated clearly that the attack and the crowd were unaffiliated with the Juneteenth celebration. I'm removing that one. 70.112.183.10 15:45, 21 June 2007 (UTC)dan solomon

[edit] violence section

the writer seemed to have gone to a lot of trouble to put that there, so I'm moving the section's contents below if he or others decide to start a separate article relating to these mishaps. Still, it doesn't belong in the article.Scott Free 00:49, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Some large Juneteenth celebrations have been marred by violence perpetuated by attendees. At the 2007 celebration in Syracuse, New York, several fights broke out amongst youths at the event. This lead to the event being shut down early.[1] Similar incidents occured in Milwaukee, Wisconsin following the 2007 Juneteenth celebration.[2] In Austin, Texas, a man was killed by a mob after the driver of the car he was in struck and injured a small child.[3] These incidents were the result of the actions of a small percentage of attendees and organizers have expressed desires to educate young people so that such incidents are prevented in the future.[1][2]
In the Austin incident, it happened 2 blocks away from a Juneteenth festival; current reporting suggests that it had nothing to do the with the festival. The victim was returning from work, the perpetrators are unknown but were believed to be in another car, and the reports suggest that there wasn't even a crowd in the area until after the killing had occurred.


Unless there is some evidence that this event was linked in some way I don't see how it relates to this article. futurebird 17:32, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
You know what, I've changed my mind. I originally put the section there and I think it probably needs to come down. I took another look at the articles and the way they're written does describe isolated incidents that weren't in any way associated with the event itself. CJ 09:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

CJ - Agreed, I'm taking it down, as no one else is arguing for its existence and the arguments against it are pretty compelling. A couple of unfortunate minor incidents among hundreds of Juneteenth celebrations do not an encyclopedia-caliber trend make. Thanks. dan solomon 16:10, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nature of the Celebration

What does one do on Juneteenth? The recent news stories about riots show people who failed to disperse after gathering for some event. But what was the event? Do people hear speeches, eat particular food, watch fireworks, parades, or what? Dsol 10:34, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Get dress up and have a picnic in the park. We had fireworks when I was little. futurebird 04:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death of David Morales

The death of David Morales (link 8 on the article page, in the "Recent Years" section) probably doesn't belong in this article, since Yahoo are reporting that police say the attack wasn't connected with Juneteenth. Kake Pugh 14:17, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

However witnesses and reporters who were there say it obviously was. Is it not connected just because the police say it wasn't?
Well, given that this is an encyclopedia, and so original research and unsupported hearsay are both inappropriate, I don't think we can say that it was connected unless there are reputable sources that say it was. The link in the article cites no sources other than the police, who at the time of that report weren't saying anything on one side or the other. Kake Pugh 00:53, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Which reporters were there? Even on a slow news day in Austin, there aren't a bunch of reporters sitting around in apartment complex parking lots waiting for people to get beaten to death. All of the information on the case initially came from the APD, which has since <a href="http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/8116837.html">changed its story</a>. There's absolutely nothing besides a retracted statement by the APD to tie this to the Juneteenth celebration occuring in a different part of the neighborhood. I'm deleting it again - please don't replace it unless you can provide a verifiable, current (not based on the retracted APD report) source that connects it directly to the Juneteenth celebration. 70.112.183.10 01:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC)dan solomon
dan solomon, thanks for spelling this out. This information has no place in this article. futurebird 02:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent Years

i think the recent years section is a far better alternative to the original "violence" section or even my removal of the contents. it makes since to talk about some of the recent follies surrounding the holiday as long as its put in this context. the previous incarnation kinda lumped violence and juneteenth altogether. Good showScott Free 15:17, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

I think the "recent years" section is a non-neutral selection of facts that are unrepresentative of the topic. Hundreds of Juneteenth celebrations occurred across the country this year, all but a fraction of them peaceful. Celebrations of other major holidays or events, such as the Fourth of july, Mardi Gras, spring break, and the NBA finals, have been marred by violence. Are we going to list each of the 308 arrests of NFL players since 2000 in the National Football League? These articles do not have such "police blotter" sections; they stick to the essential facts of the events. By selectively choosing facts, this section creates a false impression. Studerby 05:57, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Search

Is there a way to get this page to pull up when someone searches for "June teenth"? I had not heard of it and did not know it was one word. Astabeth 05:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Done with a redirect. Hoof Hearted 13:08, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Violence and Controversy section needed?

Anyone else think there should be a section that documents, with sources, the violence and disorderly conduct that occurs at almost every Juneteenth celebration each year? Anyone who watches/follows the news a lot should know what I mean... JOK3R 23:09, 22 July 2007 (UTC)