Talk:Juan (street protester)

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This article was nominated for deletion on April 20, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep, cleanup, possibly rename.

Wow, within minutes this was proposed for deletion. This satisfies WP:BIO. Multiple, independent, secondary sources have made him the primary subject of articles. Additionally, there are dozens of other references (either in passing, or not the primary subject) in major media (most of which are not included). See also, Artis the Spoonman, Mr. Butch. SchmuckyTheCat 22:25, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh yes, this article is going to drive some editors into screaming fits trying to have it deleted :-). Not voicing an opinion either way on the notability of the subject, just betting that it'll push a few Wikipedians over the edge into insanity. Still, it's an interesting read. Best, --Alabamaboy 02:46, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

The name of the article is problematic, but "crazy screaming guy" is the most widely used name for him locally. SchmuckyTheCat 02:57, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] BLP concerns

[1]. Most of this section is covered in the second or first reference. Each individual claim does not need to be re-referenced as ibid. SchmuckyTheCat 06:55, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sourcing problems

"Juan has fake profiles, sometimes several, on nearly every major social networking site that quickly gather friends; for instance, the "crazyscreamingguy" MySpace profile has over 1000 friends" - I see no source substantiating that he has fake profiles on "nearly every major social networking site". The source provided is simply a link to the said Myspace profile, and although it is likely it is fake, no souce supports this. Also the 8th source is inadequete. It doesn't specifically mention this individual, it simply says "Wave at the nice crazy man in front of Pacific Place yelling unintelligibly about the Seattle police being communist", there is no indication (although it is likely, it would be original reasearch to say for sure) that this is the individual they are referring to, and to use that as a source to say that "He is so well known that journalists write of him in passing, assuming the readers know what they are talking about" seems a bit of a stretch. This is an isolated case, even if they were referring to him, there is no indication that this is a widespread belief among journalists. Source 4 is also completely unacceptable, it looks like a user on a random website making a post.VegaDark 07:54, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

The myspace, yelp, and tribe (you missed one) references are primary source references to support the subject of the sentence, not Juan, which is entirely acceptable. What do the people in Seattle feel about him? How do they refer to him? That is what those references answer. SchmuckyTheCat 14:37, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Libel concerns and nonreliable references

Per WP:BLP any derogatory or potentially libelous statenments must have extremely strong sourcing. The article had a statement about his mental status which was attributed to a mental health organization, without any reference. It would be a violation of federal law for such an organization to release medical information the the article writer or to Wikipedia without the written permission of the individual. I removed it as Wikipedia policy requires. I also used the <ref name=> feature in the inline reference to combine the multiple citations . Most of the references are just parody social networking pages and should probably be removed as nonreliable sources which do not prove notability and do not contain valid information about the individual. They are not acceptable as primary sources since anyone could create such an entry. They do not prove "what the people of Seattle think" since anyone anywhere could have created them. The source which merely contains one sentence about him could be removed, since it does not provide information and is just a passing reference. Its only function is to show the article is not a complete hoax, but the more substantial articles already do that. Edison 15:22, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

"Thoughts of persecution are typical of the mentally ill homeless population, says Graydon Andrus, the clinical programs manager at the Downtown Emergency Service Center (DESC). The nature of their illness—distrust of institutions, especially government-funded ones—makes it extremely difficult for them to get help ... Juan says he hasn't taken his medication since he got evicted. He goes to the DESC, but he says only to get his mail. " Restoring, with existing reference. SchmuckyTheCat 15:42, 20 April 2007 (UTC)