Talk:JTA Skyway

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It has also been argued that the Skyway was a scam to gain large amounts of money through taxes related to the projects and payments from the contractors, especially in light of the undisclosed millions spent to build only a few miles of track.

Argued by whom? This sounds like conspiracy-theory level POV to me.```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.1.199.36 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Country specification

The specification of what country this is in is not necessary, and is especially abnormal for names of places in the United States. dcandeto 17:46, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

It's a standard on Wikipedia. Not everyone lives in the U.S. If it's "especially abnormal for names of places in the United States", it's only because U.S. editors assume everyone knows the names of all 50 states. --NE2 23:01, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, if you'll look around, you'll see that it is, in fact, not the standard to include the country name, unless you are talking about the place itself (for instance, in Jacksonville, Florida, reference is made to the fact that it is in the United States, but such a reference is absent in Jacksonville University, and properly so). The country name is normally left off for U.S. states and Canadian provinces, unless they are the subjects of the article themselves. Accordingly, the country name does not need to be specified in Jacksonville Skyway, and can properly be removed. dcandeto 02:10, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello, All.

A practice's commonness or rarity matters only so much. What matters more is the usefulness of information and the convenience of access to it.

While Florida is probably likelier to be known, than unknown, in the rest of the world as being part of the United States, is the same true of, say, Nebraska? No. Instead of assuming that everyone knows that this state or that state is a part of the U.S., the courteous, logical, fair thing to do is, at the first mention of a U.S. state in any article, mention also that the place designated by that name is part of the United States. Surely, we would expect the same for a mention a Nunavut (Canadian territory), Styria (Austrian province), Dumfries and Galloway (in Scotland), Anbar (Iraqi province), Haryana (Indian state), Queensland (Australian state), Mokhotlong (district in Lesotho), Cleveland (English county abolished in 1996), etc.

If a reader doesn't already know that Florida is in the United States, the reader has to follow a link to find that out.

We can reasonably apply to the United States the same "Specify geographic location up to the level of country, but don't bother so much with hemispheres and continents" standard that works well and courteously for mentions of locations in other countries.

President Lethe 04:08, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

The Jacksonville Skyway is not a place. The only articles that consistently (more than 4% of the time) include place names up to the country are themselves place names (Jacksonville itself, or Duval County, for instance). This is not just true for Jacksonville, but true for all the articles I've been able to find that deal with U.S.-based subjects. The article on Jeb Bush does not mention anywhere in the beginning that he is a U.S. politician, just a former governor of Florida. We should also include the fact that the U.S. is a country, and that it is on Earth, in case people don't know. dcandeto 07:20, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, dcandeto.

Jacksonville is a place. So is the Skyway: it includes a fixed route over which a vehicle moves; this route is fixed to the Earth and spans miles of it.

Again, this is not about consistency with some other articles that are also illogically lacking in certain basic information.

Let's all remember to steer clear of sarcasm, especially in editing articles themselves.

Mentions of U.S. places deserve the same treatment that is logically applied in the better way of mentioning non-U.S. places. (And mentions are more than just articles named for specific places.)

Thanks for pointing out the shortcoming in the Jeb Bush article, though. I'll add the missing info. Every time I come across such an omission, or get word of it, I fill in the extra detail.)

President Lethe 20:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Jacksonville is a place. The Skyway is not, has not ever been, and will not ever be, a place. Duval County is a place. Florida is a place. Transit systems are not places. We'll see how much flak I get for regularizing placenames to City, State/Province, Country, as you say should be done. The fact that I'm having to do it to a great many articles belies the notion that country name is standard when state or province is mentioned, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. dcandeto 21:35, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello again.

In my head, any term that can be given as an answer to "Where are you?" or "Where is it?" (e.g., "I'm on the Skyway", "I left my wallet on the Skyway") is a place.

I hope people don't give you flak, and I'm glad you're helping to insert country names at first mentions of most sub-country-level places, to help establish geographic context for readers unfamiliar with those places' locations.

Just to clarify: I agree with you that most of Wikipedia's mentions of U.S. places don't include country locators; but, as you correctly ascertain, I think many that don't should.

I also should clarify my own position that this doesn't necessarily have to occur in every single instance. For example: in the Jeb Bush article, which I edited after you brought it to my attention, I set the U.S. context in the article opening by mentioning that Florida was in the United States, but I didn't go on to write "in the United States" after that article's mentions of other U.S. states, such as Texas.

The first time an article brings up a location that is in a country, or each time it switches to a previously unmentioned place in a new country, there should be mention of the country; but, when no international shifts are occurring, countries needn't be mentioned every time.

For example: "Person X was born in Santa Fe, New Mexico, in the United States. At age 11, X moved to Albuquerque. [No repeat of "New Mexico", because we haven't yet mentioned any other states.] At age 23, X moved to Long Beach, California. [No repeat of "United States", because we haven't yet mentioned any other countries.] Three months later, X went to visit London, England. [England is mentioned (even though it's probably most readers' expectation for London), because the London mention is the first mention of a second country.] While there, X decided to tour Darlington. [No repeat of "England", because we haven't mentioned any non-England places since mentioning London.] Afterwards, X returned to Long Beach via London. [No repeat of "California" or "United States" for Long Beach, because its state and country locations have already been established; no repeat of "England" for London, because its country location has already been established.]"

President Lethe 03:33, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Articles on individual stations

Please do not perform massive changes on the article and related articles without discussing them first. Keeping the stations separate is consistent with just about all mass transit articles on Wikipedia (see Toronto, Montréal, New York, Miami, etc. dcandeto 16:10, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New edits to article

The new changes made to the article, including the new infobox and the table of stations should not be reverted. Please make sure that all editors assume good faith when editing the article. Reverting non-vandalized edits is not assuming good faith. These changes have only expanded the article and made it more detailed, therefore there is no reason for them to be removed. Unless the changes involve major article reformatting, there is no reason to have to discuss them beforehand, unless they are controversial in some sense. –Dream out loud (talk) 17:23, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

The changes do involve major article reformatting. Please discuss proposed major changes here beforehand. dcandeto 17:30, 7 September 2007 (UTC)