User talk:Jpgordon

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For older history, check [1] as well as the archives.

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[edit] Tony delisted from parties of C68-FM-SV

removal; case talk notice; notice to Tony

I have removed Tony from the list of parties because I cant see this as justified, and it has caused confusion. As I mentioned on the case talk, I dont see that the ball is yet in arbcom's court as i dont see any significant discussion by an arbs about why Tony is being added to the case talk. If Tony is to be added to the case, the community deserves a clear statement to that effect, preferably with justification; without that the confusion will only grow and become a distraction. So, if the committee has good reason for Tony to be a party, feel free to undo my edit. John Vandenberg (chat) 00:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Hm, so clerks get to override arbitrators on the arb page? Fascinating. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 01:03, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
So far your involvement has been to revert an IP without making making it clear in the edit summary as to why it was being done, and comment on the case talk to the effect of "I have no idea". If that is how an arbitrator makes edits with their arbitrator hat on, then it isnt any wonder there is confusion. I am not overriding you; if your revert really was a decision to include Tony as a party, then I would welcome a more clear edit to that effect. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:16, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Keep digging. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 02:35, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Jpgordon, I'm not sure that oracular statements are the best way to ensure clarity. Maybe if you made a statement that clearly said what policy was, or what your thinking was, or what the committee had decided, it might reduce confusion. Even clerks can't read minds. I suggest saying something more like "I have no idea why Tony added himself, but it's within policy that anyone can add themselves to a case at any time for any reason, and we always let that stand." or whatever your thinking is, instead of just giving a two word answer. Your clerk asked a pretty clear question, seeking guidance, and you did not give it. That gives outsiders reason to think that perhaps ArbCom doesn't have its act together, AND undercuts your clerks as a body. Not necessarily a good approach in my view. ++Lar: t/c 10:22, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm in no hurry to resolve this; this case will last a while, and whatever Tony wants will become clearer, as will what constitutes appropriate clerk behavior; I'd be surprised if appropriate clerk behavior includes countermanding an arbitrator's actions on the arbitration page. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 13:55, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I've taken my best shot at restating what I think you are driving at, and what practice is, in general. Please feel free to correct any misapprehensions you might find I had. Thanks. (and good luck with this case in general, it's thorny) ++Lar: t/c 14:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Regarding your comment just now: Hey, sh*t happens. (especially with sick puppies). Hope he stays well. Jayvdb is a good guy. Take care. ++Lar: t/c 03:31, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed decision - Footnotes

I kept scrolling up and down wondering where my nudge/reminder/suggestion/note was - then I realised this is my first one for the case. :)

Excepting deciding on finding 2/2.1 (or principle/remedy), perhaps the case is ready for close votes? Ncmvocalist (talk) 15:40, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Looks like it. We need to clear up what we want to do with 2. Probably happen in the next day or two. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 16:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
    • Charles Matthews wants it as a principle; JamesF doesn't mind either way. Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:41, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Ready to close - 1st vote made by Kirill. Ncmvocalist (talk) 02:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

[edit] Would you care to explain...

...what this revert was? Did you actually look at what you were reverting? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 13:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I reverted it, because version by Tymek was better than other version behind version Piotrus, and Molobo. By the way - I can't said why did I revert --- this my business, so please don't more ask about it me, because I won't answer on your questions about my reverts. Please you should learn Polish history - maybe then you're going to understand it, because I think that you can't understand and you're unhelpful editor. Alden or talk with Alden 14:10, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification and advice

Hi Jpgordon,

I included a request in my evidence [2], I was wondering if yourself and the other arbitrators have considered it? (I ask because I can't see any mention of it). If it isn't being looked at, could you please advise how I should presue it? An admin suggested putting it into the envidence, which is why I did it like this. This is the first time I've had anything to do with an arbitration so I'm a little lost.

Many Thanks, Oboler (talk) 16:03, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Evidence pages are for evidence; I have no idea why anyone would suggest a request be placed there, as evidence pages are often quite overloaded with extraneous material, and one of the trickier parts of evaluating evidence is that it's like evaluating Google search results for poorly specified queries -- you have to filter out a whole lot of irrelevant stuff, and if you're lucky, you can quickly ignore the irrelevant stuff. So it probably got missed; I sure didn't see it. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 01:15, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply (and sorry it's taken me so long to see it... I've been traveling and won't get home for another 2 weeks). It was suggested I post it in evidence by the Arbitration Clerk... so I assumed the advice was sound. The discussion is here [3]. My question is what do I do now, the evidence is serrious (I spent about 13 hours putting it together - without reverting any changes I came across) and if no-one saw it, then it needs to go somewhere where it will be considered. I tried the Admin Notice board when CJCurrie originally started attacking me, I tried speaking with an admin helping with the arbitation, I tried the ArbCom case (as directed), what's left to try? If people looked at it and rejected it that would be one thing, but this is something else - it seems to have just been missed. If you could discuss what should be done with it with the other members of ArbCom, or other admins as appropriate I'd be very greatful. That way it might at least get considered and the concerns this raises would be directed some where appropriate. Oboler (talk) 04:23, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GSD/Hats

I just wanted to say that's a beautiful looking GSD pup you have there Josh. I'd also like to thank you for the hat info you gave on the humanities help desk. Hopefully I'll be able to acquire a nice Panama soon and wear it to the beach and various other places. How do you wear yours, and what brand is it? Thanks again!

Mike MAP91 (talk) 16:13, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

  • We call her "Devil Dog", though right now she's "Sleeping Puppy" after a devilish morning. (Full-scale training starts next week.) Panamas aren't hard to find, and they range from cheap to way expensive. I got most of my high-end ones at one of the few makers of Panama hats in the US, "Paul's Hats" in San Francisco; I also have a nice Western-style panama from Montecristi in Santa Fe [4]. We're talking hats that start in the several hundred dollar range and go up from there; Paul's top-end Panama goes for $30,000! (And the straw weave is as fine as the best linen. I think it's mostly a show-off piece; he's had it for a decade.) But: keep in mind that Panamas aren't all that robust; you don't want to spend the money on an expensive Panama for casual wear. You can find inexpensive ones pretty much anywhere; a Google search for "inexpensive Panama hat" can be fruitful. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 16:29, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the tips Josh. I'll look on Google and search for the various types. Puppies really are a lot of fun :).

Mike MAP91 (talk) 17:47, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your user page

Hello. I noticed your request at WP:UPH. I would like to renovate your user page. Is that okay? I would like you to reply on my talk page. Thanks. -- RyRy5 (talk) 21:38, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Replied on my talk page. Please consider watching my talk page. Thanks, RyRy5 (talk) 22:50, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Y Done. Please make any changed you wouldlike at this point. Comments? -- RyRy5 (talk) 01:17, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Sweet and simple. I'll be doing some tweaking, but it's real nice. Thanks immensely! --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 05:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Your welcome, Jpgordon. Regards, RyRy5 (talk) 01:23, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fez

See clerk board. There is an arb fez hat. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:08, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

  • So I seez. Thankz! --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 00:31, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ban procedure

Hi, I noticed that you banned user:spoilermdc indefinitely simply by deeming him having made no "useful contribution". It seems to me that he has only edited in talk pages, without making any disruptions, or edits even, in the main articles themselves. I was wondering your banning him was a hasty decision or gross abuse of your admin privileges. Note, I don't support his holocaust denial viewpoints at all. I knew him because he editted on the WW2 talk page and I only became interested because months ago I was involved in a content dispute with a couple of Japanese right wing extremists, who kept writing up their new articles and editing existing ones espousing beliefs that denied the Nanking Massacre. Several other users and I had to go through a long-winded procedure of image deletion and various dicussions (yep, they uploaded OR photos and had their own youtube videos as citation) to get those things expunged. Fortunately the users so far have not returned after the community overwhelmingly went against them. I was wondering if it was possible for us to seek a quick and easy ban for these users, since what they added to the articles were far more disruptive then spilermdc's contributions. Thanks. Blueshirts (talk) 02:41, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Well, all you need to do is find an admin gutsy enough to take the heat when people complain about the block, which they will. It's pretty easy with Holocaust deniers; they don't have any friends. A bit harder, I'd guess, with the Japanese right wing extremists. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 05:07, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks man, that sounds good. Blueshirts (talk) 05:47, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tom Ketchum (talk · contribs)

FYI, Tom Ketchum is maintaining his innocence. Are he and "TW" definitely coming from the same IP? If so, that's two recent accounts and since TW obviously is the older banned user, there's nothing more to discuss. Is "EM" on the same IP as Tom? EM doesn't look anything like the original banned user, but, rather, looks like a WR user's bad cop account and if it's a really smart bad cop, it probably edits only from a public IP or proxy. When Jayjg told me who the old account was, I was just content to take him at his word and obviously, that's an account that is and should be banned and never allowed back. But Tom's contributions bear no resemblance whatsoever to that old account. So I guess my question is, how solid is the evidence and is Tom's claim at all plausible? Is his home IP ever shared by one of the malicious users or is the relationship only that they happened to edit from the same Starbucks one day? If you say that the claim is not plausible and that his home IP is shared by one of the malicious accounts, then that's all I need to hear and I think the unblock request can be declined. --B (talk) 17:34, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

  • TW, Tom, and EM did all edit from the same IP. However, Tom's edits on that IP were on two consecutive days in March; EM was on that IP just once within the checkuser time frame. Tom hasnt't edited on that IP since then; he's strictly edited on another, which he shares with no other editors. However, Jayjg knows the behavior of banned editor far better than I do. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 22:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the reply. Is that IP a public IP (Starbucks, etc) or is it a residence? If it's a residence, even if it's a friend's house, that's a little too coincidental. (I have trouble imagining the scenario where he was editing all day at a friend's house and the subject never comes up that the friend is a banned user.) It also is slightly suspicious seeing the first edits of a new account as vandalism reverts. But the overwhelming disconnect between the edits of this user and the banned user is really hard for me to get by. The banned user obviously has a strong IT background from the articles he edited and some of his comments - he sounds like a geek. (That's not a personal attack - I'm a geek with 10 years of C++ programming experience and I know what a geek sounds like.) Tom, though, has only one remotely IT-related edit. The banned user frequently abbreviates (most annoyingly, "paragraph" is often abbreviated as "para") - Tom doesn't do that at all. Tom edits animal rights articles almost exclusively - something that the banned user never touched. I'm not going to unilaterally undo the block, but I have serious doubts that Tom Ketchum is the banned user. I could believe that Tom Ketchum is EM or is the sock of someone else, but I really don't think, based on my review of edits, that he is the banned user in question. --B (talk) 23:25, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
      • Dunno if the shared IP was a home or what; looks rather like a dynamic IP to me. The animal rights connection is, I imagine, the connection with the harassed editor. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 23:36, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
        • I looked and I only found one article where the harassed user and Tom edited in common ... well ... two, but one was after he was blocked. I'm really having a lot of trouble seeing this. I know that you probably can't take a position on it in case it were ever appealed to arbcom, so I have asked Jayjg to reexamine the evidence and reconsider his block, linking to my comments here. I'll wait and see what he says. --B (talk) 23:55, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
The original editor had two main targets, and he's been after using all his accounts. The CU evidence, combined the behavioral evidence, is pretty conclusive. Jayjg (talk) 01:43, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm confused. Jpgordon said the only IP overlap was that Tom edited on the same dynamic IP on two consecutive days. That sounds different from "pretty conclusive". Aside from this dynamic IP, is there any other technical evidence linking Tom Ketchum to any of the other accounts in question? Looking purely at the non-technical evidence (editing patterns), I don't at all see the connection between Tom and the banned user/known socks of the banned user and would even say that they are conclusively two different people. There is one common !vote with "EM", but "EM" doesn't look anything like the banned user, but, rather, looks like the "bad cop" account of a WR user. --B (talk) 02:11, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, there's much information you don't have, and much "Tom" didn't realize, including not realizing the CU records stretched back to March. He never admitted his past sockpuppeting either, so that's also a common pattern. He'll get smarter, though, based on this discussion. Jayjg (talk) 02:34, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] DeFacto (talk · contribs)

I noticed that you recently unblocked DeFacto (talk · contribs), who was blocked because he was involved in an edit war on the Toyota Prius page. After he was unblocked, he immediately got involved in a lot more reverse and editing actitities on the Toyota Prius page, including removing a whole section I added. I did not reverse back to my editing but seek a dispute solution. Please have a look at DeFacto (talk · contribs)'s talk page, see the comment I added at the bottom, and resolve the dispute properly. Thanks. Silverbach (talk) 03:08, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

  • I don't see any indication you've discussed this in the appropriate place -- Talk:Toyota Prius. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 05:09, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Edit warring over style is lame

  • Would you act as a third party to look over the article and the latest reversion here and in a second article here. Use your own opinion. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 12:44, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
    • All edit warring is lame. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 13:28, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Labeling it as lame is fun, but not useful. The hard work is in the details. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 16:42, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Perhaps, but if you'd stop being one side of an edit war, it wouldn't be an edit war. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 16:43, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
  • It is not two people edit-warring, there are 3 ANIs, 4 RFCs, and Arbcom. All the standard procedures to settle conflicts. Abdicating editorial control, or appeasement do not make good reference works. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 16:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Its a failure of the arbitration system, not a failure of one person to appease the other. When Arbcom had a chance to settle it, it instead chose to punish a third party, on an unrelated topic. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 17:05, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request

Hey Jpgordon. Is there a link you can toss at me for any discussion of the block on the undertow? Just curious. — MaggotSyn 14:40, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Blocks like this are often made after private discussion among the arbitrators because of the sensitive nature of the evidence (threats and harassment). Josh - could you tell me if this is an ArbCom block or are you acting as a normal administrator? There's a little bit of paper work that I'll file if you're acting as an arb. Ryan Postlethwaite 14:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
If this is an arbcom action, please in future remember to write in the block log that it is, to avoid confusion. Thanks. Al Tally talk 14:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I think we can consider it an arbcom action, as the evidence justifying the block is in the form of private ArbCom communications. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 14:47, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. — MaggotSyn 14:49, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TfD nomination of Template:Creationism2

Template:Creationism2 has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Neelix (talk) 20:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

  • What possibly would make you think I would care? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 00:13, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Demon

I found that discussion very relevant to the article. Just curious, why did you remove it? No, I'm not having problems with that, no it's not bothering me, I'm just wondering. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 14:18, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Talk pages are for discussing improvements to the article, not for what essentially is a religious tract. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh that's a very good point. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 17:48, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Re: User:64.88.86.3

I thought {{schoolblock}} was a more informative template for the average student, but I guess it's not in this case. Zenmap still shows several open ports as I type. Isn't there an exemption list for this? Spellcast (talk) 15:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok I've examined the user's contribs and I don't see any concerns of abuse. Would you be willing to grant exemption at Special:UserRights/Eceresa? Spellcast (talk) 15:40, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah the policy says exemption from open proxies is only allowed in "highly exceptional circumstances". I'll take this to ANI for greater input. Thanks, Spellcast (talk) 15:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Edit warring?

Hi, actually, I don't think I've ever edit warred with User:Katr66. Do you have some evidence this user is someone else? Katr67 (talk) 22:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

  • "Edit war" was the wrong term; sorry to imply you'd done anything improper. More like, an IP vandalized, you fixed it, IP came back as Katr66 and continued to edit on Klamath Falls, Oregon. Come to think of it, the logged-in edits aren't particularly unpleasant. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 22:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Oh, I know I've done nothing improper. But you don't know if that was the same user as the IP. And yes, the account actually made some productive edits. Not to say you should allow a name so close to mine, just pointing out you may have jumped to conclusions. Katr67 (talk) 22:33, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
      • Um, yes I do know if that was the same user as the IP. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 22:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, you did a checkuser? Why didn't you say so in the first place? Katr67 (talk) 22:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

  • I dunno, I kinda have this weird idea sometimes that people can read my mind. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 23:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikigiraffes review

Thanks for your time. Josh, I apprecaite your looking into this for me. I'll wait patiently until you have reached your decision.

Wikigiraffes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.30.245 (talk) 21:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Eh? Blocked user on my page? Begone. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 23:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC)