Talk:Josephine Baker

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[edit] Nationality issues

I added this line because the previous intro leaned more towards her being American than French when she in fact renounced her American citizenship in 1937.

josephine was clearly american which speaks bad french. it was a miracle no one speaks ill of her.she even bacame famous. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 219.74.114.176 (talk • contribs) 05:20, 12 March 2007.

[edit] Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 20:05, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Burlequese Outfit

What a lie! The woman is wearing next to nothing (and if I may say so, she wears it well!) Fergananim

[edit] Burlesque outfit photo

Is it really necessary to have such an unflattering picture of Ms. Baker?

I dont know where your problem is. She looks great on this picture!--84.170.152.7 16:49, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

There was just a documentary on German TV "Phoenix", were she was shown dancing, dressed with bananas only. Comparing face and breasts from memory, I'd have to say that this picture might be a fake, showing somebody else in her style. The skin looks very "photoshoped". --Matthead 16:22, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
One of her biographies has a very similar photo on the cover, only there, she's wearing a sort of bra made out of beads or cowrie shells. Most likely someone has Photoshopped this to create a fake topless photo. I'm going to go ahead and remove it from the page until and unless its authenticity can be established. —Celithemis 02:38, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Oops, maybe I should have read the talk page before I added the burlesque photo that I found at the French Wikipedia site. I see it is on the German site also. I don't think it was photoshopped - there are similar photos of her on her official site. But I don't know if the photo is in the public domain so I will flag the photo for questionable copyright. (If you know how to do that please go ahead as it will go on my "to do" list and not sure when I will get to it) --cda 03:33, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English story

During this time, when Baker returned to the United States, she was at a dinner party and began to speak in French as well as English with a French accent. An African-American maid was reputed to tell her, "Honey, you is full of shit. Speak the way yo' mouth was born". She had the woman fired.

Source? I'm not saying this didn't happen - I do remember Baker coming under fire from American blacks who felt like she had no right to stir up so much racial trouble for a country she didn't live in. But this story, along with the poison wine story, sounds more like fiction than fact. Rattlerbrat 11:51, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I had the same questions---this article needs more sources! Kemet 1 April 2006

[edit] What about Eddie Carson ?

In the German version of this article Eddie Carson, Josephine Baker's probable father, is presented as White (and Jewish). This appears to be in contradiction with the English version. Please clarify if possible.

Robert Schediwy (Vienna)

Eddie carson was said to be Josepjine's father.but she believed he was a white man.i do not think so that because he was carrie mcdonald's lover and carrie was josephine's mather. Eddid carson is most likely to be. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 219.74.114.176 (talk • contribs) 05:16, 12 March 2007.

[edit] Is she the basis for Franz Kafkas' Josephine?

As I read Josephine the Songstress or: The mouse People (1915) by Franz Kafka; I couldn't help think that there were a lot of parallels to Josephine Baker and her American audience’s ambiguousness towards her. Anyone else have an opinion?

[edit] The Incident With the Maid....

...can be found in "Naked at the Feast", one of the first bios written about her.

the maid told her that her mouth was full of shit and just speak the way she was. josephine had her fired.go and read more... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 219.74.114.176 (talk • contribs) 05:13, 12 March 2007.

[edit] children

Since she adopted 12 children from all over the world, I would imagine that would be important enough to explore (or even properly mention) in the article. I was looking for information about the outcome of these children whom she dubbed her "Rainbow Tribe" which was asking a lot, so at the very least explain her large family.

I've added a little bit on them from what I could find online. Someone will need to turn my link into proper references and notes, as I am not so good at that. -Kez 02:47, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Photos

I don't think that a fair use claim for a photo of Baker can be justified when there are free photos available. If that Van Vechten photo from 1949 were the only one available, then maybe we could make the case, but there are several more on Commons to choose from -- see commons:Josephine Baker. —Celithemis 22:23, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What difference does it make if its fair use?

I dont really see why it matters if its fair use or not. The photos in the commons are nice, but some of them dont look so good due to the quality. They are just sitting there...... maybe a gallery would be good.

--Mrlopez2681 06:53, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Take a look at the fair use policy. We may not use a fair use image when a free alternative is available. I agree that the images on Commons are not perfect, but this is not something we can just choose to ignore. —Celithemis 07:04, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I understand you don't like the Van Vechten image, but putting the fair use one back in again isn't going to change the policy. Can you give a reason why all the free images do not adequately provide the same information as this image? If not, then unfortunately it violates Fair Use criterion #1 and will wind up deleted.
You can rearrange the free photos any way you want, of course. The Van Vechten one doesn't have to be at the top of the page. —Celithemis 08:29, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Pls refrain from revert wars. If you can't resolve this issue I would suggest to ask for mediation.
My 2¢ worth: The glamour years of the 1920s and 1930s represent but one aspect of Mrs Baker's life. I think that a picture at a more mature age is entirely fitting, in particular in view of the fact that she became something like an icon at a later age.
btw: I just noticed that that aspect of her life is entirely missing from this biography. Looking at the French version there is a section about La femme (the woman) in which her off-stage activities are highlighted. Such as her involvement in the French resistance during World War II, her involvement in the civil rights movement in the US, and the Red Cross. Also, the fact that she adopted children from different ethnic background. It seems to me that is may be more constructive to extend that portion of the biography. 12.74.162.118 09:13, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, the bio is definitely lacking. I could have sworn there was at least *something* here about her adoptions and civil rights work before. I'll see if I can find it in history.
I'm not going to remove the image again, but it should probably go to Wikipedia:Copyright problems for wider discussion if this can't be solved some other way.
There is another free image at a more mature age available, which I quite like, personally: Portrait of Josephine Baker —Celithemis 09:36, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
PD post-1935 will be hard to find. I managed to come across Pictures of African Americans During World War II; it seems to be government owned, so it may be argued that it is PD, "Miss Josephine Baker, popular stage performer, sings the National Anthem as the finale to the show held in the Municipal Theater, Oran, Algeria, N. Africa. The band is directed by T/Sgt. Frank W. Weiss." May 17, 1943. 111-SC-17523. I am not too impressed though. 12.74.162.222 01:09, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I am getting sick and tired of administrators challenging every fair use image that is uploaded - if they are going to do this because non-free images should not be used, then what is the point in even allowing fair use images to be uploaded in the first place? Ive tried to place better images of Baker on the page that are far more representative of her as a performer, person, etc., but User:Calliopejen1 keeps taking them down because free images are available - these free images dont give one a good idea of who she was as a performer, etc., and are mostly from her early days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrlopez2681 (talk • contribs) 01:03, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My edits

I have added the most accurate information available in print on Baker's lineage, replacing the incorrect statements which were there before.

The "official site of her estate" is, in my opinion, nothing when compared to the information coming from those who knew her best. Jean-Claude Baker's 1993 bio is definately the most accurate and well researched essay on Baker ever published, and is a tour de force done in collaboration with interviews from family and friends.

Although in the USA Josephine Baker is typically thought of as the "dancer in the banana skirt", she is known everywhere else in the world else as a singer, first and foremost.

I often see her credited as an "actress and dancer", etc. Sure, she was known for her dancing in her early days, but she was a singer, period. Her last starring role in a movie was in 1935 after only three other films which she starred in. She was never a 'movie star', per se.

In light of this I think it is far more appropriate to call her an 'entertainer', even though she was without a doubt a singer above all else.

--Mrlopez2681 08:07, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Piscine Josephine Baker

The article states erroneously that the Josephine Baker swimming pool is the "first-ever swimming pool over the Seine." In fact, from there was a very famous floating pool on the Seine, the Piscine Deligny, constructed in the 19th century (apparently its prototype was constructed on a barge in 1801 on the initiative of a swimming instructor, Mr. Deligny, and later reconstructed in the 1840's). The swimming events for the 1924 Paris games were held there; it was an immensely popular public pool, known by Parisians as a site for near-nude sunbathing and a good place for cruising until it sank on July 8 1993. I'd put in some links, but one of them just got rejected.

Unfortunately, I don't have time to try to edit the article right now (in fact, I have to leave for a swimming workout), but perhaps some interested and knowledgeable soul would care to make the correction. If not, perhaps I can at some later time.

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[edit] Josephine's reputation

Josephine Baker was an outstanding role model for every one but the crap written about her makes her sound like Marilyn Minrow

[edit] Bisexual/Lesbian

It's pretty obvious that there's a lot of talk about Baker's sexuality. But this page mentions nothing. I mean, the gay and lesbian review, for one, think she was gay or bisexual (http://www.glreview.com/issues/13.5/13.5-strong.php). And apparently her son said she was in an interview with them. So why nothing here? Andral (talk) 00:55, 1 May 2008 (UTC)