Talk:Josei

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[edit] Removed

Removed the following erroneous examples.

Angel Sanctuary ran in Hana-to-Yume, a shōjo_manga magazine.

Nana is serialized in the shōjo_manga magazine Cookie_(magazine)

Only Yesterday or Omohide Poroporo is published under Animage Wide Comics imprint. I can't exactly describe what kinda of imprint Animage Wide is, but it is not a josei publication. Animage predates the josei classification anyway.

Ebichu is written by a woman, but that means nothing. My best google-fu says the Ebichu was originally published in Manga Action Pizzazz, which is a seinen magazine. However, there are numerous references to Gainax claiming that it's aimed at women (looked at gainax.co.jp, Ebichu pages not there anymore). It could be claimed that Ebichu anime is aimed at women and thus qualifies as josei anime, but I very strongly discourage that for various reasons. (For those familiar with the scholarship, this is analogous to using target audience to classify, say, Escaflowne.) Rather, think of it as Gainax trying to expand the potential audience to include both sexes.

Paradise Kiss is a special case. The manga was serialized in Zipper magazine, which is akin to Seventeen. Calling it josei would imply that the target audience of Seventeen are twenty-somethings. However, the anime was aired as part of the Noitamina programming block. The series originally debuted at 00:35 a.m., which argues against calling it shoujo, but not enough to definitely call it josei. Using "original material" as my yardstick (a common yardstick in the hobby), I'm arguing that it's best to classify it shoujo and not josei. -24.236.176.101

"Ebichu is written by a woman, but that means nothing." For the record, CHOBITS is written by females so.... yeah.... -Aknorals 10:49, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hatakari Man

For anyone who is familiar with this series, I believe it is an excellent example of this genre. I ask that it be added as an example for anyone who knows how to do this. Thank you, Wolffi —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.246.231.151 (talk) 21:33, 30 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Removed Saiunkoku

Saiunkoku Monogatari is originally a light novel which is serialized in Bean's Ace, which is described in the Japanese wikipedia article as a magazine which aims at the "shoujo" audience.

"Beans Ace" is not described in the Japanese wiki to be aimed at females, because its not aimed at females. Beans Ace is manga magazine that Kadokawa Shoten started as a hybrid magazine aiming it at both males and females, there's shoujo and shounen manga serialized in the magazine.
"The Beans" on the other hand is a novel magazine aimed at shoujo, its a shoujo novel magazine.
Saiunkoku Monogatari light novel is serialized in "The Beans" and not "Beans Ace". ChuChu


I don't see how Papa to kiss in the dark is in this genre. Isn't it yaoi?? "much like but not to be confused with yaoi; josei tending to be both more explicit and with more mature storytelling." Again, Papa to kiss in the dark isn't a very Mature story, it's just an excuse to make a story about a boy who fancys his dad. And how is Josei more explicit than Yaoi??


[edit] This article should be renamed.

In Japan, Ladies' Comics is actually what this genre is called. The Japanese wikipedia article on Ladies' comics actually does not make any reference to the term "josei manga," and only mentions "josei-muke" manga as referring to all manga aimed at women, whether girls or adult women. The term "josei manga" seems to be a creation of the English-speaking fan community, and this fact, I think, should be noted in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Charmian33 (talk) 06:17, 11 July 2007 (UTC).

I am a native speaker of Japanese. I totally agree with you on renaming this article. "Josei" in Japanese connotes woman or women in general usage. Josei in Japanese does not connote "comic books intended for women". If English-speaking anime fans think Josei connotes "comic books intended for women", they are raping our Japanese culture by showing no respect for Japanese language. Gleamdiscoversdarkside (talk) 03:33, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I wouldn't even regularly find this article if it wasn't mention on the JA:WP talk page, and much less bother to reply to this, but... raping our Japanese culture by showing no respect for Japanese language.? Don't you think you're going overboard here? I mean, this sounds equally ridiculous as the whinings of Americans in Japan about how the Japanese are misusing their language - about the various katakana words of English origin... I mean, the article's subject is an apropriation of the language, yes. It's a use that sounds funny/nonsensical to the Japanese speaker's ear, yes. But rape of culture and lack of respect for the language? Tell me I can apply Poe's law on you, otherwise, you're a scary person. TomorrowTime (talk) 16:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

ChuChu, please don't move this or other pages until there is a clear consensus to do so.

I understand the objection that in Japanese, shojo, seinen, josei etc refer to girls, youth, women etc as a whole, and not specifically their manga. However, this is the English Wikipedia, and as used in English otaku circles, the terms refer pretty much exclusively to manga. If you do an English-only Google search for josei, the first six hits all refer to josei manga, and the rest are about Jōsei (城聖) Toda the Soka Gakkai guy. None use "josei" to mean "woman", because that's not what it means in English.

To give a comparison, the English Wikipedia article Cider talks about an alcoholic beverage made from apples, while ja:サイダー is about an artificially flavored, colorless, non-alcoholic soda. Is the Japanese Wikipedia raping English? Jpatokal (talk) 16:46, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Josei manga is clearly the better title. Fg2 (talk) 20:40, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Fg2, it is probably better. But it need not be a correct one. Wiktionary defines josei to be "a class of manga written for an older female audience, also josei manga." [1]. If this is the common usage, that's what we need to use. (Needless to say, whether this constitutes a raping of the Japanese culture is really irrelevant. I'm a native Japanese speaker, and I'm too used to be offended by this kind of misuse.) -- Taku (talk) 07:33, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Taku (even though I'd like it to be at Josei manga). As for the whole language raping thing, people in Japan do at least as much of the same thing with ENglish as we do with Japanese. I'd say it all balances out in the end. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 02:33, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
I just stumbled onto this discussion while doing some disambig with links to shōjo and shōnen. The problem with josei manga is that josei isn't a type or genre of manga, but a target demographic. You also have josei light novels and theoretically josei anime among others. So renaming this article to josei manga would actually be a poor choice for a name. --Farix (Talk) 15:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)