Talk:José María Sison

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Jose Maria Sison, Founding Chairman of the Communist Party of the Philippines and currently Chief Political Consultant of the National Democratic Front of the Philippines, has been put on the list of "terrorists" by the US, the Dutch government AND NOW ALSO BY THE COUNCIL OF THE EUROPEAN UNION. Since 1987, Sison has resided in the Netherlands where he is seeking asylum as a political refugee. A worldwide solidarity campaign to defend the democratic rights of Jose Maria Sison has been launched.

Deleted link. Wikipedia is not a soapbox. --Quess 20:24, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

True enough. There is a running political joke in the Philippines and it goes something like this: the only remaining communist in Europe is a Filipino who is Jose Maria Sison. Columnist Tony Abaya calls him Josef Maria Stalin.

assuming to be true the unproven statement that the mass organizations Kilusang Mayo Uno, Bayanmuna, and Gabriela are communist-aligned is highly problematic. considering the fact that the government has taken to arresting so-called communist-leaning politicians and organizers. there is a need to preserve the freedom of these legal mass organizations and therefore allegations that they are communist-aligned should be met with concrete data.

first thing's first. one needs to sign their comments. anonymity is not an option in Wikipedia and can often lead to abuse. Second, Freedom, my dear, is not absolute, especially that when freedom is exploited as a means to subvert the very foundation that makes freedom possible, i.e. the rule of law, democratic values, and institution of governance. I sincerely agreewith Voltaire line that "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," which I believe is the gist of the comment above. But freedom has its limits. Now, it is a question of jurisprudence whether or not the arrest of known members of front organizations is legal. If there is NO probable cause, then by all means, they should be released. Just remember, these closet communists and their agitprop are not here to edify the tradition of democracy in the Philippines. On the contrary, they will use the guarantees of democracy to subvert it. Their dictum is "Do not do unto us what we will do to you once we are in power." In 1989 after the massacre of unarmed civilians in Tiannamen Square, Bayan's Crispin Beltran and his Bayan ilks to include Carol Araullo were lonely voices in praising China for the violent crackdown on demonstrators that killed hundreds.

Revolution, my friend, is not a walk in the park. Those who support and propagate it will unavoidably find themselves in the middle of the crosshair of the state. That how it is, it is the natural reaction of the agents of the State to defend it, as those who are in support of the government open themselves against attacks by those who espouse Revolution. It's in the laws of nature, an action has its corrsponding reaction. One cannot expect his or her support of such revolutionary moves will not yield its corresponding counteraction. You cannot expect that when you support the revolution, the counter-revolutionaries will tap you on the back for your courage to speak up. As Tony Abaya said, revolution is not a picnic. So don't toy with the idea unless you are committed to it until the end. So don't habor any illusion that Revolution is like the Woodstock - all peace and love. It ain't, son. So these college kids who are unwitting pawns in the revolutionary game in the end are willing victims of the tragedy of history- Johnyang2

Hear! Hear! I sympathize with you Johnyang2. But it's so damn hard to find sources for these communists contradicting themselves. They know their propaganda techniques. Responsiblebum 08:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] POV by Peoplestruth

Please make the statements more NPOV. --Quess 10:12, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

You too Quess. Whoever's version this is fully of subjective opinion, not neutral fact. actually, the "facts" here are downright incorrect too. What are listed as "controversies" is the perspective of anti-sison, former CPP individuals and are clearly biased. Please list facts rather than rumors or false testimonies of criminals (Corpuz, Kintanar, Lagman, etc.).

Sorry. I wasn't thinking straight when I did the revert (need more sleep). The one I should've only modified (and not reverted) is the second item from the list of "controversies" ("incorrectly" => "allegedly"[1]). The discussion title was also a bit much. Again, I apologize. --Quess 15:55, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Please try to discuss this here, point by point. It will be time consuming but I will try to attend to this and it will avoid the need for future debates. I do hope to see an NPOV article.--Jondel 04:08, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, the "quotes" are extremely subjective and not neutral at all. They are character assasination and has not place in objective academia. Also, my quotes are from a book, you can get at amazon.com, while these other quotes seem made up. --peoplestruth

Truth?!Then go ask Sison and his "rah rah" boys and girls about their masterminding of the Plaza Miranda Bombing. It's well documented. -- Johnyang2
it is the standing policy of the CPP and NPA to admit to any bombings, attacks and assasinations, etc.... --

peoplestruth

Not if it will damage their much-mythicized reputation as supposedly fighters of the people. -- Gino
I think the quotation marks are all right. The term people’s court itself in general is loaded and has no objective meaning that is independent of ideology.
This Sison guy is now issuing pronouncements that in fact saying that he has nothing to do with the murder of his former comrades. What a big contradiction. Here's a guy representing himself to be the leader of a movement who is disowning the actions of his minions. I find it laughable. He appears to be simply protecting his ass coz the Dutch government is keeping him on a tight leash. - Johnyang2

Johnyang2, sorry to disappoint you but if there is no evidence, please don't attribute any bombings to Sison. It will look very bad for wikipedia, if it seems wikipedia made an non-cited , unsourced conclusion or statement. We need to have verifiable sources.--Jondel 02:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Come Jondel, his former comrades and even people like Jovito Salonga are saying so. The fact remains that European countries including the ever generous the Netherlands classify him as a "terrorist." Europe classifies a person a terrorist, not based one's political beliefs, but on account on his participation on violence and atrocities. If you need proof, just surf the EU Court of Justice website. - Johnyang2

My interest is being as professionally journalistic as possible, professionally journalistic in quotes because this is a volunteer encyclopedia. Just as articles on Saddam Hussein, Hitler , and other controversial unpopular people are as neutral as possible, the same has to be applied here. By the way , I also work in the journalism industry in my daytime job. In the articles we/I write, we can't publish what isn't sourced or cited. You might be interested that I help initiate and save the Jovita Salonga article from deletion. Please, I would rather that you follow journalism policy rather than making us sysops enforce policy.--Jondel 08:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lacks sources

As of this writing, there is only one references and no sources cited. We need sources for this article.--Jondel 08:33, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese filipino?

This article is connected to category 'Chinese filipinos', yet there is no indication of Chinese descent in the article. Can someone find the facts and correct the article textgor delete the category, based on the facts. Thanks Hmains 03:17, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] EU Court Overturns Two EU Terrorist Listings

I added a paragraph to input a major news on sison's delisting and asset unfrozen.


--Florentino floro 13:50, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I included the news about the ruling on the legal fees.

--Florentino floro 14:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I added the news on the side of the Netherland embassy and Norberto Gonzales explanation.

--Florentino floro 06:50, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but I was still surprised to see the introduction lack this balance. So, I included this fact in the introduction which will provide greater neutrality for the reader about this issue.DrGabriela 05:21, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Improvements on neutral point of view for arrest section

I think the Arrest section can be improved by a more factual description of the conditions of his imprisonment to achieve a more neutral point of view. Also some responses to the allegation of torture should be added to achieve a more balanced discussion of the topic. – Ilse@ 21:19, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 2008 Prophecy of PGMA downfall

The world-famous dwarves, LUIS, armand and angel of prophet Florentino V. Floro are very excited to hear the official interview release of Joma's prophecy of PGMA downfall. I hope users will expand this sub-section.

--Florentino floro (talk) 05:54, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Verdict on June 10

The trial ended on May 20 and on June 10 the decision will be released: The Dutch court on May 20,2008, heard Sison's appeal against the Dutch Public Prosecutors Office's request to extend its investigation until December, since the investigators arrived in the Philippines in February and interviewed witnesses. At the trial, however, the new evidence showed that there were indeed attempts to kill him, in 1999 and 2000, while Kintanar's wife, Joy, directly accused Edwin Garcia in the murder of her husband.Abs-Cbn Interactive, Sison claims govt agents tried to kill him The Dutch court scheduled the promulgation on the verdict on June 10, 2008.Inquirer.net, Communist leader Sison asks Dutch court to drop case--Florentino floro (talk) 06:55, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Back to Jail?

The Dutch District Court of The Hague on June 5, 2008 decided in camera “that the Public Prosecution Service may continue the prosecution of Jose Maria Sison for involvement in, among other matters, a number of murders committed in the Philippines in 2003 and 2004; that while the prosecution's case file still held insufficient evidence, the investigation was ongoing and should be given time to unfold.”abs-cbnnews.com, Dutch court allows prosecution anew of Joma Sison--Florentino floro (talk) 12:04, 5 June 2008 (UTC)