Talk:José Luis de Jesús Miranda

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on September 14, 2006. The result of the discussion was KEEP.

Contents

[edit] Previously Poorly Formatted Comments

Some people insist on violating wiki policy ith this article, so to quote:

"Remove unsourced or poorly sourced negative material Editors should remove any negative material that is either unsourced or relies upon sources that do not meet standards specified in Wikipedia:Reliable sources from any page, including those concerning living persons and related talk pages, without discussion; this is also listed as an exception to the three-revert rule. This principle also applies to biographical material about living persons found anywhere in Wikipedia. Administrators may enforce the removal of unsourced material with page protection and blocks, even if they have been editing the article themselves. Editors who re-insert the material may be warned and blocked. See the blocking policy and Wikipedia:Libel.

Administrators encountering biographies that are unsourced and negative in tone, where there is no NPOV version to revert to, should delete the article without discussion (see WP:CSD criterion A6).

Jimmy Wales has said:

"I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced. This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons." [2] He considers "no" information to be better than "speculative" information and reemphasizes the need for sensitivity:

"Real people are involved, and they can be hurt by your words. We are not tabloid journalism, we are an encyclopedia." [3] "

Dr U 08:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I am very familiar with WP:BLP and read the comment from Jimbo some time back. I have sourced the claim from named authorities, which was not difficult. Guy 06:57, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

--Reburris 12:27, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I've added my notes from his Today Show appearence. Please forgive me if my method is a little too informal. I'm trying to expand the article with the little time that I can spare. I think this article will be worth keeping.

[edit] This Gives Me An Idea

I propose to merge this article with "stupid shit that people come up with when they are stoned" Niubrad 01:35, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


THIS IS NOT A FORUM TO EXPRESS YOUR OPINION you idiot, I do not care if you believe this or not but this is a biography article

[edit] Edit by anon

[1] - anyone know if this is correct? JoshuaZ 04:20, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


This Wiki artile is EXTREMELY PLAGARIZED from www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16840066/site/newsweek/

[edit] A little more

I'm not a religious person and well obviously even if he's a fraud well wanted to request this article to be removed since it's pure BS but i doubt it happens since he has shaken the medias greatly. So here is a little more data for you guys to implement

He's from Ponce, Puerto Rico, he has a son who have also denied the fact that he is "jesus", he was a drug user and he also used heroine, he admitted it in the program "A Calzon Quitao" aired in Wapa TV(Puerto Rican Media), interviewed by Ruben Sanchez.

The story he gives to Ruben is that, his son a few years ago told him that jesus was going to come tonight, that he couldn't believe what his son said till the so called apparition happened.

A woman, that have followed him, in a previous interview broke a picture of The previous Pope, calling him a liar. (Sorry I forgot her name, she says she follows his teachings).

According to Jose luis, he says all the churches are lying always going in the same loop, that his words is full of truth and that people shouldn't listen to the catholic church anymore. He also mentioned that he stopped the Colombian government to stop giving money to catholic churches.


Maybe I can add more but I need to gather a few names from here and there.

--64.237.221.115 00:47, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Christ

I don't speak much Spanish, but it certainly appears that in this video (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4adc1e71fd), he appears to be claiming the mantle of the Anti-Christ. Can somebody who knows the language verify this? GutterMonkey 04:32, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Lol... Yeah. I just read a newsweek article, which said the same thing. Lol... His explination is pretty foolish as well. Personally, I think this article should be removed from wiki. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16840066/site/newsweek/ The less attention he receives, the less likely he will become an anoying bug.

According to Newsweek he is in fact claiming to be the Anti-Christ in addition to being the Christ. Here is a quote from the article: "The lectern is emblazoned with a near replica of the U.S. presidential seal, except that it reads in Spanish, government of god on earth." The article also says he has control over his followers in much the same way Jim Jones did. Like Jones, Miranda says anyone is free to come and go as they please. Meet the Minister who says he is Jesus Christ Anynobody 21:38, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

______________

Followers appear to mainly be lower-class Hispanics. Observe the millions of lower-class Hispanics illegally invading the USA. Make of it what you will. Personally, I fear for the future of the USA. ip68-13-191-153.om.om.cox.net

Well, Mr. Omaha, what you are contending is that the antichrist is going to be a McDonald's manager or a meatpacking manager?68.152.95.130 18:37, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm not religious, but I think that this article is going to spawn a ton of controversy. It should be locked down for a while.
Oh and your allegations that the illegal immigrants causing trouble are completely untrue. Instead of trying to stop illegal immigrants, the U.S. should make legal immigration easier on the poor.

70.63.133.20 18:20, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

The US is the easiest Western democracy to enter legally in the world, so no, I think you are not correct. However, this is certainly not the place for this debate. Just Another Fat Guy 15:49, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Fat Guy. There are places for debates on immigration; they are called forums and a blogs. To tie illegal immigration to this nitwit Miranda is to avoid the subject. This article should not be locked as it would be censorship on no good grounds.

[edit] de Jesus or Miranda

The article should be consistent. Which one should it use? RB972 04:43, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I like Miranda better, but I don't have any real reasoning behind that. --Mears man 19:15, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

In latn american countries two last names are used. Father's last name and then mother's maiden name. they are part of you official and legal name, so the correct way would be to use de Jesus or de Jesus Miranda, but neve just Miranda. Cjrs 79 05:58, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Miranda is his family name. The other three are given names. You can have as many given names as your parents want, but only one or two family names (dad, dad & mom, mom & dad), according to where you are born.--Kim Kusanagi 19:43, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


Good point, but "de Jesus" is part of the first name(s). It's an old fashioned thing you hardly see anymore; a way of sanctifying someone's name. In other words, someone like that would be called "Jose" or "Luis" or more commonly -with a name like that- "Jose Luis" by family and friends, but never really "de Jesus" alone and by itself. Miranda is the only last name. *Philosopher2king 3/24/08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philosopher2king (talk • contribs) 16:53, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NPV

Although I am not a Christian, I note that this article is incredibly biased in favor of Mr. de Jesus. There are some "allegations" that are refuted with unsourced evidence, and the grammar is poor. If this was Uncyclopedia I would NRV it, but it's not, so I'm going to give people a chance to fix it before I renominate it for VFD. Railcgun 21:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Just remember that his surname is Miranda, not de Jesus. De Jesus is not a surname in the Spanish languages, hasn't been and certainly it will never be. Unless it becomes possible to pull out a Vito Corleonesque move and rename so where it is legal.--Kim Kusanagi 23:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think Christians are the only ones offended by this guy. Miranda offends anyone who looks at him- Let me get off my opinion and state, the article is biased, and I'm gunna apply the ol' brain cells to fix what I can. IronCrow 22:19, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deleting Worthless Comments (but NOT this Article)

Is there (yet) a policy allowing us to delete utterly worthless comments made by obvious non-editors (such as that directly preceding this one)? Why do people come to religion related articles to declare their faith (or lack thereof)? FYI, people: nobody cares what you believe, ok? Nobody. This is an encyclopedia; your religious belief constitutes original research, and is neither wanted nor needed here.

On a more useful subject, why on Earth would this article be constantly nominated for deletion? This guy is, in fact, an actual extant human being, who appears (occasionally) in the news, and does indeed have a large number of followers and (according to the Dallas Morning News) a substantial media network. Very, very encyclopedic, if you ask me. Ofc, it is utterly essential that all references to "Jesus" and the like be sourced and described uniformly as his claims. No other "special treatment" is needed. (Well, except for the inevitable edit-wars when one or more of his followers discover Wikipedia ;). Eaglizard 17:38, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

- Just did. 134.134.136.4 16:55, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Today Show

Here is the clip of him on the Today Show if anyone wants to use it for citing.--Twintone 18:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed and un-cited comments.

I have moved lots of the un-cited comments here for now; there are so many of them that they make the article falicious by their sheer volume. Please feel free to move them back if you find a citation. The intention of this move is not to censor the article, it is merely to remove uncited (and therefore potentially wrong) items from the article. If you can find any appropriate citation for any of these items, please move it back to the original article and include the citation (please remove it from this list also to make life easier for other editors). Thank you.

From the Early Life part of the article:

  • He was forced to enter a long term residential drug treatment program in New York City.[citation needed]
  • De Jesús declares to have converted to Christianity while in prison.[citation needed]
  • Immediately following his conversion he became a self-taught student of the Bible.[citation needed]
  • In a recent program on ABC, he told of the experience that led him to become this controversial "messiah": Allegedly, praying one day, two angels appeared to him and endowed him with the calling of being the second coming of Christ.[citation needed]

Second paragraph:

Third paragraph:

  • In the mid-1980s and the ministry currently has a physical presence in thirty countries, however statistics show that more than 103 countries tune in every time he talks to the world through his live conferences on Wednesdays.[citation needed]
  • The Ministry CEG reports to have centers in 12 States within the United States, including locations in Hartford, Connecticut, and Miami, Florida.[citation needed]

From the Notes on De Jesus TV segment part of the article:

  • Much to critics' surprise the show generated the highest ratings of any TV show in the month of December,[citation needed] even surpassing the ratings of the live broadcast of the Latin Grammys in November by a substantial amount of viewers.[citation needed]
  • On November 17, 2006, Puerto Rican newspaper El Vocero announced that Miranda planned a visit to Puerto Rico on December 17th of that year. Univision's Que Suerte show allowed thirty minutes without commercial interruptions to "the Man Christ Jesus" (as de Jesus Miranda is called by his followers), causing even more controversy because such uninterrupted airtime has never been allowed to anyone in the history of Puerto Rican television.[citation needed]
Actually, most of that is true, well, true as in he has said that. The third paragraph is overstating and the "notes" section just isn't true at all, he's spread his so-called "ministry" to like three or so countries and his show never gets good ratings, aside from hecklers and actual devotees. Anyway, I just watched Primetime (ABC) and the show itself implied most of paragraph 1 and 2. Also in 1997 he got a DUI or something after stating he never got drunk after "becoming" Jesus. There's also the very controversial statement he made when he said that murder and stealing wasn't wrong, that only society made them wrong. http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=2925021&page=1 IronCrow 03:41, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed this...

He is also a giant toolbox, liar, scumbag, and should be dealt with as soon as possible. While I agree with that point of view, and I also think that he deserves to be shot in the kneecaps, it is opinion, and, therefore, does not belong in this article if it is wanted to be encyclopedic. Therefore, gone. Be more professional with yor POVs, the one who wrote that.--Kim Kusanagi 19:38, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

What do you know? The user with the following IP, 75.71.67.90, reverted my edit and called me a vandal at my own talk page. Don't you understand, you stupid @s$h0le!? This wiki is trying to be a neutral encyclopedia! Not your own personal site to express your or my views about the man! As I said before, I wouldn't expect any less from someone who prefers to remain anonymous. Grow up, man. Don't troll and let this site grow up scientifically and enciclopedically.--Kim Kusanagi 05:22, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Anonymous? Hardly. You have the IP address. You can do a lot with that. This article IS favourable to the man, but that can change, you brave wiki editors! NPOV away! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.220.168.119 (talk) 00:53, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I know that he/she is hardly anonymous because of the IP, but what pisses me off is that he/she refused to sign the comment with an username. I don't see it totally biased; it still can be perfected, true, but as it is now is going the right way.

BTW, although you're expressing yourself in a decent, polite way, you should sign with your username, too. There is nothing to fear.--Kim Kusanagi 19:18, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Here's what I think. Miranda is a liar and, as ABC implied it, "Con-Man." I believe he is an idiot and deserves, like Kim Kusanagi has said, to be shot in the kneecaps. A user's opinion, however, has no place in Wikipedia. Miranda may be an incredibly stupid guy (he does know how to make money though), he may look like he eats children, and he probably should be "dealt with as soon as possible," but that is only your (and my) opinion. The only dumber people out there is his followers, which I am soooo glad they aren't Wikipedians. If you want to make a "Jose Miranda Eats Small Children" website, then by all means, do so. Just don't do it on Wikipedia, please. IronCrow 22:14, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
You said: The only dumber people out there is his followers, which I am soooo glad they aren't Wikipedians. Well, don't be so sure about that... :0 - Mtmelendez (Talk|UB|Home) 01:22, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Hehe, you're right. Forgot the original creation of this article was... errrrrr, yeah... biased. Meh, either way, lets make sure this doen't go back down that sink hole, huh? I think I meant that the person does not parade around Wikipedia in his underwear... if you get what I mean. IronCrow 20:58, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rick Ross a cult expert?

I fully agree that Miranda is leading a cult. However, I find it absurd to call Rick Ross a cult expert. He's a convicted felon who labels even fairly mainstream Christian sects as cults. I'm not even remotely religious but I find Rick Ross' positions highly offensive. --Caja do Queso (talk) 22:52, 5 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by CajaDeQueso (talk • contribs) 22:48, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of how you define the man (I would agree with you at points, he is kind of ridiculous), but he is considered an expert by many. You also forget the guy was a felon at 22, many people who were felons at a young age at least grew to their senses (somewhat). IronCrow (talk) 02:51, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Diff. Who's watching this page? --Pwnage8 (talk) 18:23, 10 May 2008 (UTC)