User talk:Jonathan de Boyne Pollard

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Welcome!

Hello, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! 


Great job on the DNS zone transfer article. Alex Jaspersen 03:51, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] doubling the barrel

Hello Jonathan! Well done for findng so many people for the List of people with a double-barrelled name article! One question: Before your addition the list was sorted in alphabetical order of surname. For the "first name" sections, should we move to alphabetical order of first name? It seems hard not to, now that your massive list is included! Brequinda 07:53, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

  • In the given names section it would seem sensible to sort by given names, yes. Are you thinking of creating two categories, as was suggested? Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 08:32, July 15, 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Warwick School and Mora Clocks

J deB P - the prefect who jumped off the River Avon Bridge? The last to do so? I wrote the article on Warwick School to remove a scurrilous article posted by some pupils of mine. I am the acknowledged expert on the school, but some people will have to quote sources all the time, I suppose. Have you bought and read my book? Do you really trust The Guardian to quote the new Head of Science as if he was speaking with authority on behalf of the school? I have complete control over the picture archive of the school, and have several wonderful aerial shots, among others. As for Mora Clocks, I wrote a short paragraph so that others can pick up on it and improve it. Isn't that the point? G N Frykman 09:00, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

  • You have me confused with someone else.

    Whom I trust isn't relevant here. As for Mora Clocks: No, it isn't the point. Citing sources is partly what actually enables editors to "pick up and improve" one-paragraph articles. If they don't know where to go for information, they cannot expand articles. Citing sources doesn't just help readers. It helps editors, too.

    If any of those aerial shots are released into the public domain, or licensed under the GFDL, by the copyright owner then please upload them to the Wikimedia Commons so that we can use them. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 23:02, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

    • Sorry to have confused you with an old pupil of mine.

      Personally I feel that articles written by people who know something about the subject are better than those written for fun, or by people with too much internet time on their hands...!

      I will search my own pictures of Warwick School for suitable images to upload. I shall be very happy to "donate" them. G N Frykman 14:09, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

      • You're probably confusing me with Jonathan Pollard, which, to quote Michael Flanders, "isn't quite the name". Let me offer a counterexample: I've written articles for fun, and I've received a barnstar for doing so. See below. (-: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 01:55, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I see that the Warwick School article is being attacked by disgruntled pupils of the school again. Thanks for your help in removing any vandalism. There are plenty of images ready for insertion in the next couple of weeks.G N Frykman 23:41, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

  • The bane of school articles is that they are magnets for unverifiable original research by pupils of the schools concerned. Unless it made headlines in a publicly archived newspaper, there's simply no way that the rest of the world can verify that someone confiscated N scarves on day D. Such additions are not really vandalism, though. They are merely unencyclopaedic. Vandalism is a different kettle of fish. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 01:55, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I like the way that you call attention-seeking teenagers experimenting with mild attacks on their school and its staff "unverifiable original research"! It does seem, though, that there are enough people "out there" who think that an article on Warwick School should be just that! The school, as with all others, is very, very conscious of its public image, and a sensible Wikiarticle can only be a good thing.G N Frykman 09:53, 21 December 2005 (UTC) Thanks for reverting the vandalism by pupils of Warwick School. They give the game away by referring to "Nebuchadnezzar", which they think is my middle name.G N Frykman 18:14, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Orchids of Western Australia

Thanks for your quick work on this stub. --Apyule 07:32, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Removing cleanup?

Why did you remove the cleanup notice from the Simson Garfinkel article? Do you disagree that it needs more work? I was also perplexed by your edit comment: It's self-contradictory to say that one is cleaning up by adding a cleanup notice. What is that intended to mean? I'll wait a little bit before restoring the cleanup notice. I think it's still needed, but maybe you can explain to me why it is not. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 20:07, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

It's quite clear what it means. You said that you were cleaning up the article, but in fact you added a cleanup tag rather than removed one — along with adding a whole load of errors that I've just had to fix, to boot. You didn't do any cleanup at all. You did expansion. I've just had to clean up your expansion that you mis-labelled as cleanup. Moreover: The burden is on you to explain why you think that the article requires cleanup, which you didn't. There are lots of specific cleanup tags, and there is an edit summary field and a talk page for you to explain why cleanup is needed. What the article actually requires is expansion, not cleanup. Ironically, you removed the tag (that I originally added) stating that very thing. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 20:23, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
I did not remove any tag. And moreover, you are mistaken about the meaning of "cleanup" (I did a little bit of it after putting the tag in). However, given that you've done some positive work on the article, despite your rather combative tone above, I'll go ahead and defer to your desire to not have a cleanup tag in the article (at least for now... which in practice means for a couple weeks, since I'm going out of town tomorrow). Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 23:19, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

An Award
I award this Tireless Contributor Barnstar to Jonathan de Boyne Pollard for his fantastic rewrites in saving articles from deletion.

--howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 17:34, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

  • pull cord and The Prisoner Of Chillon were still deleted, though. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 01:28, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Can't win 'em all, I suppose. howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 07:12, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Minus zero

Thank you very much for correcting my misguided removal at −0 (number). I should have looked way back in the history and/or thought a bit more. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 04:10, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quick work!

➨ ЯEDVERS awards this Barnstar to Jonathan de Boyne Pollard for creating a great stub to replace some lousy spam.
➨ ЯEDVERS awards this Barnstar to Jonathan de Boyne Pollard for creating a great stub to replace some lousy spam.

[edit] Sidney Stringer School

Good work on getting this article cleaned up and expanded so quickly. When I came upon this article, it had been vandlized so completely and for such a long period of time, the damage looked irreversible. I have just withdrawn my nomination for deletion based on your work. Thanks for your contributions! SquidSK (1MC•log) 04:00, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Pukka Pies

Thanks so much for your wonderful work on the Pukka Pies article, I'm much in your debt.

[edit] Pukka Pies Prodding

I have no objection to your removal of the prod per se, I'd just prefer you not to misrepresent the issue. The tag was added because the only assertion of notability in the article was someone saying "The pies are among the most popular in the UK". Now, I can say that or you can say that and stick it up on the internet and it doesn't necessarily make it true. That was the objection I was raising, rather than the nonsensical one you're attempting to ascribe to me. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 21:44, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Your notice is there for all to read. You wanted the article deleted because of "the say-so of one cited source". The notice says that "If you can address this concern by [...] sourcing [...] the page [...]". Since the article was already sourced, your objection clearly was nonsensical, since it contradicted the very notice that you employed. The only misrepresentation here is the one of your placing the cited source, an article published in Bake & Take magazine, in the same category as "something that you or I can say and stick up on the internet". Not everything with a URL has been through the same publication process. Something that you or I write and add to our personal web sites is not published via the same process as something that has to pass muster before an editor. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 10:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] About Easypath

Do not redirect. Now, will it not be possible to get by stopping because it is deliberating in the deletion request?--Naohiro19 02:36, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

  • I didn't redirect. Read the article carefully. I told you what you should have done right from the start, instead of wasting editors' time with AFD. I suggest that you read the Wikipedia:Guide to deletion, and that also carefully, moreover. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 15:08, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Please do not remove content from Wikipedia, as you did to Easypath. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. A link to the edit I have reverted can be found here: link. If you believe this edit should not have been reverted, please contact me. Chovain 15:10, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

  • I didn't remove any content at all, and it is not vandalism. The content is right there in the article that is pointed to. Please read the content of the article, instead of knee-jerk reverting a quite proper edit. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 15:13, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Why are you editing the contents of the AfD template? This issue still needs to be resolved in AfD. A redirect isn't going to work while the AfD is happening anyway: Perhaps you should write something in prose instead (like a disambig or {{about}} link). Chovain 15:25, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
      • When did you stop beating your wife? I'm not editing the contents of the template. The AFD notice is still there, which is what the Wikipedia:Guide to deletion talks about. I've drawn your attention to this three times now, twice above, and once in an all-capitals edit summary. For the fourth time: Please carefully read the article content, the AFD notice, and the Wikipedia:Guide to deletion. There's no need for a disambiguation. This is a simple redirect. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 20:11, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
When you do redirection act, the posting may be your blocked.--Naohiro19(Talk Page/Contributions) 15:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
( Addition ) You violate Three-revert rule.--Naohiro19(Talk Page/Contributions) 15:50, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] William James (railway promoter)

The reference of mine you have "corrected" is now wrong: you have the date of publication as "1969". The US publisher Kelley's edition, which you cite, appeared in 1978. 1969 is the original date of publication, from the UK publisher. Too trivial to argue over, still less to have a revert war over. --Old Moonraker 06:18, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Indeed, I have corrected it. There is no need for scare quotes. And it is, contrary to what you claim, correct. There are plenty of library catalogues (which you can check for yourself by following the hyperlink) that give that publisher and that year of publication. I challenge you to provide even one catalogue that gives the information that you altered the citation to contain. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 09:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
  • [1] --Old Moonraker 10:38, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Brass Monkey

Thanks, I didn't think of looking for just Brass Monkey. I have only ever heard the expression complete. Slavlin 16:39, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for Ceroc

Thanks for adding sources to Ceroc. Much appreciated. Martin 12:28, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Legacy"

About this edit...you may be unaware that when talking about technology, "legacy" means outdated or obsolete hardware or software that is still in use. Take a look at the article legacy system. In light of this, I am not sure that your edit was entirely appropriate. —Remember the dot (talk) 03:16, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Wrong. It does not mean that. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 17:11, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
    • That site is by no means an authority on how the word "legacy" is popularly used. —Remember the dot (talk) 18:55, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
      • It doesn't need to be. It does tell you to use a dictionary.

        You're making things up by inferring a new notion that isn't documented anywhere. This is Wikipedia. You aren't supposed to make things up. There's no such thing defined in the Unicode standards as a "legacy encoding". This notion is a fiction invented wholly within Wikipedia by a Wikipedia editor named Plugwash. Read Talk:Legacy encoding and learn. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 20:53, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

        • You make a good point that the term "legacy encoding" is perhaps not apppropriate for Wikipedia. However, that does not change in the slightest the meaning of the term "legacy" when applied to computers and technology. Also, incidentally, your preferred revision contains sentences such as "Latin letters with diacritics and characters from other alphabetic scripts typically take one byte per character in the appropriate multi-byte encoding but take two in UTF-8" (emphasis mine). This makes no sense. —Remember the dot (talk) 21:52, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
          • It makes sense if one doesn't skip over the word "typically". Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 17:33, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

You're confusing the noun for the adjective. We're talking about a "legacy encoding", not a "legacy".

From the OED:

adjective (of computer hardware or software) that has been superseded but is difficult to replace because of its wide use.[2]

Now please stop reverting back to your edits to the UTF-8 article. If you persist, it will be considered vandalism and you will be blocked. --Imroy 22:01, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Correcting an article to remove mention of something that was made up here in Wikipedia and does not exist in any formal definition of the article's subject is a furtherance of the Wikipedia:No original research policy, not vandalism. Are you interested in knee-jerk reverting, or in actually making your encyclopedia correct and accurate? Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 17:33, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
    • Jonathan, we've already been over this. In this context, "legacy" is used as an adjective. Claiming original research will not make your complaint any more valid. Do a Google search for "legacy encoding"[3]. It is not OR, nor is it a product of Wikipedia alone. It is a widely accepted term. Get over it and stop vandalising the UTF-8 article with your incorrect assertions. --Imroy 17:57, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
      • Once again: Correcting an incorrect article is not vandalism, as Wikipedia:Vandalism explains to you.

        Moreover: Google searches are not research. Research would involve reading the Unicode standard, which I have and you obviously haven't, and noting that nowhere is the notion of a "legacy encoding" either formally defined or used. There is no such "widely accepted term", as actually reading the pages that Google turns up for you will reveal. There's no defined concept. (Reading Talk:Legacy encoding will also reveal this to you.) Not only have you not read the source documents, you haven't even read the results of your own Google search. Exactly how are you contributing to writing an encyclopaedia if you aren't even reading source material? Your reversions are not based upon wanting to make a correct and accurate encyclopaedia, but simply because reverting is how have become used to responding to everything. That's unfortunately something that happens all too often to Wikipedia editors. But it's wrong nonetheless.

        Finally: Claiming original research is exactly what makes a complaint valid. Wikipedia:No original research is a fundamental policy around here. Please read and learn it. No matter how much you may want an idea to be valid, you shouldn't be putting it into Wikipedia until it has been accepted and properly documented outside of Wikipedia. Unfortunately, this idea of "legacy encodings" is being written about first here in Wikipedia by people who want it to exist, because that's how the world ought to be in their view, not because it's something that authoritative published source material dealing with the subject matter has actually heretofore covered outside of Wikipedia. And it's being defended by people such as you who just string two words together, count Google hits, and think that that magically shows that source material exists. My surname gets as many Google hits as "legacy encoding" does, and I'm not documented in sources.

        Stop knee-jerk reverting, stop counting Google hits as a substitute for actually using source material, read the policies, read source materials, and start working towards making your encyclopedia correct. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 12:06, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Jonathan, I will first warn you not to make personal attacks. If you had actually checked out my contributions, you would see that not all of my edits are reversions, and that the vast majority of those are for clear cases of vandalism.

Now, perhaps it would help if I enumerated my arguments against your refusal to accept the term "legacy encoding":

  1. I never claimed the term is specific to Unicode. The legacy encoding article used to claim this, but I never did, and the article has since been edited to remove this claim. Bringing the Unicode standard into this is pointless.
  2. The use of "legacy" in this context is as an adjective. As pointed out above, the OED[4] agrees with this use. Are you contesting the use of "legacy" as an adjective?
  3. My use of the Google search results was to refute your claim that the term "legacy encoding" was invented on Wikipedia. Google shows the term is very widely used. Are you claiming that Wikipedia has influenced all of these authors all around the world?

At the moment I'm afraid we might be shouting past each other about slightly different things. Clearing up these issues would help. I'll leave your latest edit to UTF-8 for now, in the interest of setting a good example and not inflaming the situation. But anyone else is free to revert it. --Imroy 14:42, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Replaceable fair use Image:Hvr200.jpg

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[edit] Replaceable fair use Image:Maltron-ergonomic-keyboard1.jpg

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[edit] Replaceable fair use Image:Maltron-flat2-front6l.jpg

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[edit] Replaceable fair use Image:Maltron-lefthand-keyboard1.jpg

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[edit] Replaceable fair use Image:Maltron-mouthstick-keyboard1.jpg

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[edit] Replaceable fair use Image:Maltron-righthand-keyboard1.jpg

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[edit] Latin mnemonics

Thanks for calling that to my attention. Sometimes I think that the whole joint's gone mad for deletion. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 19:40, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A star for you

A star for you
Even though the AfD on Galactic Empire (Asimov) is still open, I have no doubt that your tremendous work [5] will make it much more likely to survive. Yngvarr 14:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Hear, hear. Colonel Warden (talk) 18:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Latin mnemonics

As you nominated the article at GA, just letting you know there is a review now at Talk:Latin mnemonics. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 15:21, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Japanophilia

Could you at least try to be civil in the discussion at Talk:Japanophile? While I agree with you in principle, I think you're being a complete dick in how you're arguing your case. -Amake (talk) 14:05, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Everything that I said was perfectly civil. There's not a single incivility anywhere. Go and read Wikipedia:Civility#Examples. You'll find not a single one of those in anything that I've written. Pointing out that people are are not putting Wikipedia's policies into action is not incivility. Pointing out that an argument is entirely specious, and explaining why for the second time, is not incivility. Practically begging people to actually go and read the cited sources, to see what they say for themselves, is not incivility. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard (talk) 16:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Search engine test

Please discuss this on the essay talk page before making this change again. This change does not reflect consensus and links to a self-published page you wrote. Torc2 (talk) 08:50, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

  • That it links to a Frequently Given Answer is immaterial. That page links to several other informative web pages, too. That you are objecting to the conclusions of linguistic research on the grounds that it "does not reflect consensus" of a group (apparently of size 1) of Wikipedia editors is rather silly. Truth is not decided by a majority vote. Nor does a person with only a pseudonym outweigh linguistic researchers from the Universities of Bologna, Sussex, and California at Berkeley. (I'm not even asking you to rely upon my status as someone whose works are occasionally cited here and there.) In any case, your "consensus" appears to comprise just 1 person: you. I suspect that what you really mean is that what I, researchers, and many others have actually found out about search engines does not reflect what you would like to be true, because the arguments that you've heretofore been making, that have relied upon a meaningless metric, have suddenly and inconveniently turned out to be built on sand. Wikipedia:Search engine test is a project namespace resource for Wikipedia editors like you to learn about how and how not to use search engines when writing the encyclopaedia. It isn't there to reflect editors' collective ignorance of search engines. It's there for you to learn better — as, too, is the Frequently Given Answer. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard (talk) 21:05, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
    • That the page is called a "FAQ" is indeed immaterial. What's not is immaterial is that it's not a reliable source. It's your self-published website and is largely OR, granted, with a couple sources that don't say quite the same thing as you say. Why source to yourself instead of to the actual reliable sources? I've read them; they say what the essay said before you changed it. It also doesn't matter that I keep reverting you. The consensus is the essay before you inserted your opinion in it. You're not changing anything I wrote, and the essay in the state it was before you changed it is hardly a consensus of one person. The searches aren't useless; people just need to understand what they're seeing to use it properly. Don't like the essay saying that? Why not discuss it on the talk page before making such a huge change. It shouldn't have to be like pulling teeth to get you to discuss these changes with other editors. Torc2 (talk) 21:26, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
      • The only thing here that is like pulling teeth is getting you to grasp the idea that scholarship has long since shown that what you keep reverting to is wrong, despite the fact that I've pointed this out in every edit summary from the first onwards, and that the important thing here is to correct the page. You're just knee-jerk reverting, without any consideration of making the page actually correct and (as I noted before) probably because it shows that what you would like to be true is wrong. You are defending that knee-jerk reversion with false assertions of consensus, and defending what is erroneous with the fallacious argument that consensus even determines truth in the first place. You clearly have no clue as to what original research actually is, nor that it is not a problem that something outside of Wikipedia may be a primary source written by a named expert.

        Here's a hint for you: Something based upon previously published papers by linguistic researchers from the Universities of Bologna, Sussex, and California at Berkeley is not original research, in either of its Wikipedia senses. Additional research performed by a named expert may be original research in the sense of being primary research; but primary research outside of Wikipedia is perfectly all right (and is indeed the lifeblood of Wikipedia) and certainly isn't original research in the sense of idiosyncrasy when it reaches the same conclusions as obtained in 2005 by Véronis and others.

        Once again: That Wikipedia editors are collectively ignorant of something, that scholars have known about since 2005, does not make their beliefs correct. That you could get another Wikipedia editor to agree with you doesn't mean that either of you would be correct. I repeat: Pages like Wikipedia:Search engine test and my Frequently Given Answer are for you to learn better, not for reinforcing collective ignorance as you are trying to do. I suggest that you learn from the things that you are being pointed to, rather than, as you are doing, not learning and instead promoting falsehoods that would be convenient were they true but that people doing actual research into the results given by search engines have long since found to be false. Jonathan de Boyne Pollard (talk) 14:09, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

        • Well, you're apparently convinced you've got the absolute truth and everybody else and all the policies regarding sources are wrong. Fair enough. Here's a truth: there's absolutely no way this will get included in the essay unless you discuss it on the essay talk page and reach consensus. Feel free to ignore this and keep reverting without discussion. Eventually you'll just be blocked for edit warring. Torc2 (talk) 23:05, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
      • Hello. I added a note to Wikipedia talk:Search engine test. ~a (user • talk • contribs) 00:52, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

There's more discussion about this disagreement at the project Talk page. Please review it and comment there before adding back in your changes. Thanks. JohnInDC (talk) 13:25, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Conflict of interest warning

If you have a close connection to some of the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred from the tone of the edit and the proximity of the editor to the subject, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:

  1. editing articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
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  3. linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam);
    and you must always:
  4. avoid breaching relevant policies and guidelines, especially neutral point of view, verifiability, and autobiography.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have conflict of interest, please see Wikipedia:Business' FAQ. For more details about what constitutes a conflict of interest, please see Wikipedia:Conflict of Interest. Thank you. Jehochman Talk 19:41, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Biblioteca Virtual en Salud logo.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:Biblioteca Virtual en Salud logo.gif. You've indicated that the image meets Wikipedia's criteria for non-free content, but there is no explanation of why it meets those criteria. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. If you have any questions, please post them at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions.

Thank you for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 04:09, 22 May 2008 (UTC)