Talk:Jonas Salk
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[edit] Live vs Inactivated
Updated this section a bit. Since polio has been eliminted in most of the world, and inactivated vaccine is recommended in countries without the disease, as there is a very low (but not zero) chance of causing polio with the live vaccine, particularly in children with HIV or other immune compromised states.Pustelnik 12:33, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Article too timid
So the section on "Controversy" includes the part about Julius Youngner and Roger Revelle. That's fine as far as it goes. There's always going to be professional jealousy. And someone who's exceptional on technical skills may be merely average on social skills, and may not do a very good job thanking people publically.
But, the real controversy might be the standards of the times for "informed consent" for the 1950s, and add to this that polio was a dread disease and people were afraid of it to a greater extent than the actual odds and the actual probability might indicate that they should be afraid of it. So it might be a role of a doctor, in real informed consent, to counsel caution with a new vaccine. Not that Jonas did anything different than any other doctor was doing, or that the medical establishment itself was doing. But he may not have done anything particularly better either. Medicine was still following the paternalistic, and at times the authoritarian model. It was still decades away from bringing the people in, calling upon the strength of the people and all that modern management stuff (which doesn't always work, nothing always works, and is often indifferently tried).
Okay, some numbers: "The worst polio epidemic year in America, 1952, saw 57,000 cases with 3,145 deaths and roughly 20,000 cases of permanent paralysis that could be mild to severe. That same year, by comparison, 24,000 people died of tuberculosis and 46,000 died of pneumonia and flu. In single years earlier in the century, diphtheria, whooping cough, scarlet fever, and even measles had each caused more death and disability." VACCINE: THE CONTROVERSIAL STORY OF MEDICINE'S GREATEST LIFESAVER, Arthur Allen, Norton, 2007, p. 169.
Please understand, I am not saying we should only work on the worst problem of the moment and abandon everything else. You can actually accomplish a lot by pursuing what's genuinely interesting to you. What I am arguing is that each of us, and all of us together can accomplish more, in the long run, and in the short term, if we practice an I-Thou ethics, and get good at leveling with people, at telling them truth in a measured dose that they can understand, at engaging them in a conversation, and so on. Or perhaps not. Some people seem to believe that we could not have made the progress in vaccines that we made if we had practiced anything like modern ethics in the early days. Maybe. I would say that this is a very good topic for inclusion in the article's "Controversy" section.
Also, polio was a "blameless" disease. It struck with frightening unpredictability rich and poor alike. Something like tuberculosis back then might have been viewed the way we view AIDS today. Some people really hung up on blame, other people with a nagging suspicion that the victim had taken too many risks or had not taken good enough care of their health, maybe only a third of people able to practice real 'buddhist'-like compassion. I'm 44 years old. What I can remember very well myself is the 1970s. I can go back and read about the '60s and understand. With the 50s less of this sense of feel. So I don't know for sure how things were perceived in the 1950s. And regarding people who get AIDS, people who get it through sex are doing what are of us do, which is to pursue sexual partners and sexual activities interesting to us (maybe I should put an (s) after partner, I tend to be naturally monogomous, but not everyone is). Sex is part of being human. (And real sex ed, I wish it helped high school kids recognize positive energy, and negative energy, and if it's positive energy, you might want to go with it. If you can say 'Yes' in a meaningful way, you can also say 'No' and vice-versa.)
In fact, the book VACCINE, like many writers have done, attributes a lot of FDR's resiliency and optimism and connection to the common citizen to his struggles with polio. The book quotes one of his sons, "Then he got polio and he was determined to defeat it, and he worked 7 years and he never defeated it! That was a great lesson. It made him far more sympathetic to other people's problems." (p. 164)
Well, it seems like there's a lot of other ways of developing sympathy besides getting so severely sick!
So, I think some of this would make for interesting addition to the main article. FriendlyRiverOtter 00:10, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Roger Revelle
that guy is pretty mean.
- It appears that Revelle harbored some professional envy over the vast fame that Salk had. T.E. Goodwin 03:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
He is one of the person, whom I admire. I know nothing of his personality or character, but what he has achieved for the humanity is marvellous.
[edit] Humanist? Who decided to name his religion here?
Salk was born to Jewish parents. He should be considered Jewish. He may have harbored "humanist" philosophical ideas and concepts but his religion was Judaism by birthright. T.E. Goodwin 03:20, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- A person is whatever religion they self-identify with. Also, "Jewish" seems to be used interchangeably for "religion" and "ethnic group", e.g. it is possible for someone to be ethnically Jewish yet an atheist. As far as Salk is concerned, here's a ref that says he was a Humanist: [1] but another that says he was Jewish: [2] so I'm going to mark the article with a 'fact' tag. -- Limulus 00:30, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Why Russian-Jewish?
Why is Jonas Salk's religion mentioned? And where is the evidence for his theological beliefs?
It does not appear to be the norm (or in any way relevant) in Wikipedia to mention a scientist's religion in the introduction. James Clerk Maxwell for example is not listed as a British-Christian.
It would be nice to have some consistency. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.9.138.200 (talk) 17:16, 5 May 2007 (UTC).
Judaism is a race as well as a religion -- even Jews themselves would confess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.224.60.9 (talk) 19:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Many of us from that background do not consider ourselves "Russian", especially as we were excluded from the mainstream of Russian life by the Tsars (see Pale of Settlement). "Russian-Jewish" is a descriptive explaining an origin in the Slavic subgroup of the Jewish cultural set. -- DrGaellon (talk | contribs) 21:54, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
This is a biographical piece, and biographies often, even usually, include the subject's religious background and/or ethnicity. Salk was Jewish, and we should say so. See Albert Einstein, Karl Marx, Sigmund Freud, and lots of others, for example. Tvoz |talk 23:04, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Factual errors
I am Jonas Salk's eldest son, Peter. The article contains numerous small errors, which I have not turned attention towards correcting. However, on September 19, 2006, I edited the page to correct my mother's maiden name, which was not "Calfin" (I have no idea who might have entered that name, or where it came from). I have revisited the article for the first time since then, and found "Calfin" restored in the text, as well as several other new pieces of incorrect information. I have just now corrected two obvious ones: (1) my father's work with Tommy Francis in the 1930's and 1940's was on an influenza vaccine, not an AIDS vaccine; (2) my father did not inject me with an experimental AIDS vaccine, and I don't believe that Merck "purchased the experimental antibody" (there are better historical details that could be added on this subject). I have no experience with WikiPedia, so I don't know how to keep errors from being returned to the articles; and, for whatever reason, my 9/19/06 edits don't show up in the History section. Perhaps I will spend more time on another occasion to correct other errors in the text.
24.152.178.159 00:04, 10 May 2007 (UTC)Peter Salk
- The whole point of a wiki is that it can be edited by anyone at any time. If a statement is not referenced, it is frequently subject to change by anyone who comes along. You can't prevent errors from being introduced, short of protecting the article, which is counter to Wikipedia's goal and purpose. I don't know why your earlier edits would be gone from the history. All I can suggest is that you mark the page for watching, and check it from time to time to ensure your corrections have not been erroneously reverted. --DrGaellon (talk | contribs) 22:05, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
- The name "Calfin" was introduced on 14 February 2006 by an anonymous user at IP 68.44.31.233. This same user made several vandalistic changes to the article that day - this one, being subtle, was not reverted and was perpetuated by later editors who didn't know any better. --DrGaellon (talk | contribs) 22:23, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] level of protection
The Albert Sabin article states that the Salk vaccine prevented the neurological complications but not the initial intestinal infection (which presumably means that someone who received the Salk vaccine could still transmit the disease). Is this correct? If so it should be mentioned in this article, and if not it should be fixed in the other. KarlM 06:09, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Which Medical School?
He received a medical degree from the College of Medicine at New York University in June 1939.
While attending NY Medical College, he shot two lectures that would change his life forever.
Did he attend the New York University School of Medicine, or New York Medical College? They are not the same! --DrGaellon (talk | contribs) 22:05, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
