Talk:Jon Jang

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[edit] Chinese Names

Hello, you (user:Kowloonese) added two sets of hanzi to the Jon Jang article. However, you gave no Pinyin nor explained how the names are to be pronounced (is he, for example, of Cantonese origin?), or explained why there are two sets of hanzi, not one. Further, it isn't clarified that Chinese Americans like Jang usually don't use their Chinese names except when among family or when dealing with Chinese speakers. I believe even when traveling to the Beijing Jazz Festival Jon Jang was billed as "Jon Jang" and not either of these Chinese names, though they may have also appeared in the program notes. Further clarification would be welcome. Badagnani 11:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

You and I have different philosophy on using native text in wikipedia articles. I put the Chinese text there because they are alternate identities of that person (beyond just transliteration of the name). Since this article can be referenced from around the world, readers may be searching by his other identities. It is important to establish a cross reference between the various identities of the person, hence they are encyclopedic info to be included to assist future researchers. However, I don't believe every Chinese text should be accompanied with pinyin, en.wikipedia is not a Chinese dictionary, why would the English readers care about how his other names are pronounced when he is known as Jon Jang? Besides, looking up pinyin can be done through a dictionary, why should the pinyin be taking up space on the page? IMHO, it is sufficient to include the text for foreign researchers, but a pronunciation guide is not needed for the main audience namely the English readers.
I have never attended his concerts in China, hence I didn't know how he was billed there. I found the references to his Chinese names from some interviews on Chinese media. The media would not make up his Chinese names unless he disclosed them to the reporters. The report didn't explain why he has two names. However, it is not uncommon for Chinese Americans to have mismatched English and Chinese identities. Names can be changed due to adoption, re-marriage of parents. The English identity of their ancesters could have been changed for immigration purpose, but people wants to preserve their Chinese names for geneology purpose. I personally have a friend in the US whose English last name does not match his Chinese family name because his ancester immigrated to the US by pretending to be another person's son. Back in the days of the Chinese Exclusion Act, people did all kind of tricks to beat the system. Apparently his original famiy name was Hu (胡), but his current name is Zeng (曾) and he spells it the English way as Jang. Kowloonese 19:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Please don't ascribe philosophies or motivations to me that don't exist. I simply asked for clarification to be added to the article. My request still stands. Badagnani 19:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay. Let me put it another way. Your request for pinyin (regardless of the lack of philosophies or motivations) is against my philosophy. I don't believe pronunciation guide should be added to the supporting native text. Yes, perhaps readers need to figure out how to pronounce Jon Jang. But I don't think they need to know how to pronounce 曾健良. Even if they do, there is always a dictionary. Your request for explanation of his multiple names will be unanswered because as I pointed out in the comment above, the source didn't explain. Kowloonese 19:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I do believe the pronunciation needs to be given, not necessarily pinyin if Jang comes from a non-Mandarin-speaking background. If his grandparents call him by one of these names, in a particular dialect, it should be presented here rather than simply including unintelligible characters with no pronunciations given. This encyclopedia is for all users, not just hypothetical monolingual Chinese speakers/readers somewhere in the future. More information cannot hurt, and although you claim no English-language readers would be helped or interested by the Chinese pronuncation, here is one who definitely is (me). Preserving the hanzi as some kind of code only accessible to Chinese speakers is not helpful. By the way, why not provide your sources for the two different hanzi so that they can be verifiable? We can always check with Jang himself about these. Badagnani 20:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I too know an American citizen of Cantonese origin whose legal family name is different from his actual family name, for the same purposes you mention. Badagnani 19:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

  • The program notes to a Jang CD in my possession has his surname, in the Chinese essay by Zhang Weihua, as "Hu." All websites I looked at putting in "jianliang" and "jueshi" gave "Hu" as surname. Badagnani 20:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
If his CD uses Hu, then it should be what he goes by. Kowloonese 00:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
  • For some reason, the Chinese CD notes give the character "liang" with a line over the main part of the character rather than as a small diagonal stroke. Is this an alternate form that isn't found at Wiktionary? Badagnani 20:26, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I beleive it is just a variation of writing. In some Chinese characters a dot vs a dash make different words, but in most cases if there is no conflicts, calligraphers often put in artistic variations. Kowloonese 00:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. This wasn't calligraphy, but a standard simplified Chinese font. Badagnani 01:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
May I add font type designers next to the calligraphers that I mentioned. Kowloonese 08:38, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm still confused because if Jang is of Cantonese/Taishan origin, as many Chinese Americans of his generation are, "Jang" would seem to come from 曾 rather than "hu." Badagnani 01:14, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't know his background at all. But just by speculation, Hu may be his ancestrial name which he wants to carry for his Chinese ethnicity. But Jang is his legal name inherited from some immigration paper done by his family generations earlier which he wants to keep as an American citizen. In fact, US legal system allows her citizens to change their names. He can change his legal name to Smith if he wants. Besides stage name can be anything. If anyone knows this person, he and she can ask him directly. To me, it is nothing more than curiocity. It is good enough for me to accept that it is not unusual for Chinese Americans to use different names in different languages. e.g Daniel Akaka uses a Chinese name that is not based on his English name. Kowloonese 08:38, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Thinking about this, I think you must be exactly right. Badagnani 16:03, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
It is more common for Chinese female to use different surname in different language, e.g. Vienna Teng has a Chinese surname quite different from her English name. I guess she uses her maiden name in Chinese, but her husband's name in English. However, if she is not married, there are tons of other reasons like remarriage of her mother, fake immigration papers etc. and other same possibilities that applies to both genders. Kowloonese 17:33, 14 July 2006 (UTC)