User talk:Johnshoemaker

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[edit] Speedy deletion of Scientific Kabbalah

A tag has been placed on Scientific Kabbalah, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent. If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions about this.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Wisdom89 (talk) 05:51, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Non-mystical Kabbalah

A tag has been placed on Non-mystical Kabbalah, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent. If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions about this.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. // Chris (complaints)•(contribs) 04:27, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll be honest, I tag a lot of articles for deletion and I don't remember this one in particular. I think I ran a google search and couldn't find any reliable sources on the topic. // Chris (complaints)•(contribs) 04:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I know nothing about Kabbalah, I just know I couldn't find anything to support an article about Non-Mystical Kabbalah. // Chris (complaints)•(contribs) 22:18, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Three things:
  1. I don't speak French.
  2. You posted lots of books and articles on my talk page, but I have no idea what they mean. I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what you're trying to say. If you feel you have the required reliable sources to try to write this article again, post it first in user:Johnshoemaker/Sandbox. But please, as several other editors have told you, acquaint yourself with Wikipedia's standards on verifiability, NPOV, and reliable sources. Otherwise the article will get deleted again.
  3. I know nothing about Kabbalah, mystical or otherwise, so I couldn't very well be part of a cabal. However, I do attempt to enforce Wikipedia's rules on the topics I mentioned above. // Chris (complaints)•(contribs) 14:18, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Carlo Suarez cabala

A tag has been placed on Carlo Suarez cabala, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent. If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions about this.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Jfire (talk) 05:04, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] February 2008

Hi, the recent edit you made to Kabbalah has been reverted, as it appears to be unconstructive. Use the sandbox for testing; if you believe the edit was constructive, ensure that you provide an informative edit summary. You may also wish to read the introduction to editing. Thanks. - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 05:07, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Carlo Suarez cabala

A tag has been placed on Carlo Suarez cabala, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent. If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions about this.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Jfire (talk) 05:15, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Please stop. If you continue to introduce inappropriate pages to Wikipedia you will be blocked from editing. Jfire (talk) 05:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

This is your last warning. You will be blocked from editing the next time you vandalize a page, as you did with this edit to Kabbalah. - ✰ALLSTAR✰ echo 05:18, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button Image:Signature_icon.png located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 04:44, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Allstarecho's warnings

I've just replied to User talk:Allstarecho. Although he did the right thing by removing your link to a non-existent article, I feel that he reacted too harshly by accusing you of vandalism.

I'm sorry that your first interaction on Wikipedia was this harsh exchange. Here's what seems to me to have happened: you tried to create an article on "Non-mystical cabala" twice, and both times it was deleted by an admin named Keilana because it was "unsalvageably incomprehensible". (I'm an admin, so I can see the deleted text, and with all due respect I have to agree with her assessment.) When you tried to add the link to Kabbalah, it was always pointing to an article that had already been deleted. Allstarecho reverted this change each time. I assume you weren't aware that your edits were being undone by other Wikipedians until you saw Allstarecho's harsh warnings, so I'd say this was all just a big miscommunication.

Writing an article from scratch is often not a successful way to start editing Wikipedia - there's a lot you have to know. I'd suggest making smaller changes and participating in talk page discussions about how to improve articles you're interested in.

Best wishes, rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 11:29, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Rspeer and I hope your future encounters on Wikipedia are more pleasant ones! Enigma msg! 18:18, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stop posting about non-mystical cabala

I went out of my way to welcome you when another user wanted to just throw you out the door as a common vandal. In return, I think you should try to follow Wikipedia's rules.

I see that you've posted your "Non-mystical cabala" article in other sneaky places -- I found it on User:Tripbeing (user pages are for identifying users, not for articles that don't make it into the encyclopedia), and I saw that you edited the humor page Meta:Religion and Wikipedia to complain about your article being rejected on Wikipedia.

Your article does not belong on Wikipedia. Every editor who has encountered your article has agreed with that. We are not stopping you from getting your own Web page where you write about whatever you want; meanwhile, here on Wikipedia, we try to enforce standards like verifiability. If you try to evade these standards by reposting your article or a reference to it again, it really will be vandalism.

You are welcome to edit Wikipedia, but please find something else to do. A topic area that you don't feel so strongly about would be a good start. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 09:11, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Hi. I really did find that article utterly incomprehensible to me and completely without context, and another admin has reviewed it and came to the same conclusion. If you want, I can restore the article to a sandbox for you to work on it, perhaps User:Johnshoemaker/sandbox. Thanks, Keilana|Parlez ici 15:40, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

About Von Daniken, I think you answered something to me that was intended for someone else... --Damifb (talk) 14:29, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Adoption request Re: Incomprehensible article

I've looked it over, and I'm still having trouble understanding the topical content. You might try asking for assistance at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism where they know more about the topic. MBisanz talk 04:11, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

The article as I see it qualifies under CSD G1, or otherwise as patent nonsense. To be frank, the article (essay would be more appropriate) has no coherent subject, is poorly written, and appears to consist mostly of original synthesis. This is from a layman's point of view, and a layman must be able to make some sense of the subject. If the article was cleaned up, possibly by asking at WikiProject Judaism as MBisanz suggested above, then it could be considered. Please also note that subjects on Wikipedia must be verified by reliable sources; ergo, please source your article appropriately when you write it. Regards, Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 21:44, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
You seem to have a large number of books. If you look at WP:CITE you might be abl to make verifiable sources easier to integrate into the article. That would make it more understandable from my view. MBisanz talk 05:03, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
No offense or malice intended, but I removed your recent post from my talk page, as it was unnecessary. Simply link to the relevant discussion if you wish me to read it, or link to the relevant website if you wish me to evaluate something. The shorter and more concise your message is, the easier it is for me to understand and respond to it. Cheers, Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 08:20, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Actually, my user name is a reference to the Final Fantasy VII character Sephiroth, not the Sephirot of Judaism. To simplify things, write a draft of your potential new article at User:Johnshoemaker/Carlo Suarez. If I believe it reads clearly and asserts enough notability to avoid deletion under CSD A7, then feel free to recreate it. Cheers, Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 02:28, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


The subject is the writings of Carlo Suarez who claims that the letters of the Heb. alphabet are Hieroglyphs, that is, spiritual glyphs, and one can determine the intent of the writers by learning the Hglyphs. From your username I assume you are not saying this idea is nonsense.

"confused that no reasonable person can be expected to make any sense of it whatsoever."

I agree I with-melted another idea: that I can't find a writer who has started with the definitions of the HGlyphs given to Suarez though many have expanded on the ideas in many languages. Yes, this has been part of my research for 27 years. Confusing. Mbisanz pointed to items that were incomprehensible to him and I attempted to clarify them. Please let me know if there is anything in our discussion you don’t comprehend. I gave two of the nine definitions and it would help to know if they are comprehensible to you. I haven’t perfected either precision or concision. If you request I'll remove all from our conversation except the definitions.


==Adoption request Re: Incomprehensible article

MB writes: As an uninvolved party, I took a look at it, and here are some of the parts that are incomprehensible to me:

JS Uninvolved: I have two glosses on the word “cabalist”  !. One who uses the definitions of the sacred letters to study Torah privately and/or with a teacher or small group. 2. One who promulgates false definitions of the letters or denies there are definitions, all very publicly. Likely you don’t fit either of my glosses and I hope your “aspiring cabalist” label, even though you may have intended it humorously signifies some interest in the base document that when tortuously rendered into English begins with the allegorical expression “In the Beginning.” Thanks for taking the time.

MB ‘this gloss is termed Carlo Suarez or non-mystical cabala because It is not ‘above the intellect."

JS ‘ I agree this is bad. The Kabbalah article states that it is mystical Jewish tradition, that is “above the intellect.” I meant to emphasize that Suarez’s use of the term “cabala” was not outside the intellect. There’s a page that sends different uses, glosses of the word to different pages but not a page that is not "above the intellect." MB “Any who have chosen to work in his “laboratory” have not published”

JS Bad. Personal irrelevant observation. What I meant was allegorical. Above I had paraphrased Suarez; the laboratory for testing formulas(groups of Torah glyphs) in cabala was the individual mind. Empirical work of a scientist must be testable in any other scientist’s laboratory. I was too judgemental. Many have published, quoting Suarez and expanding on his sentences but none have worked directly from his definitions of the Hglyphs, elements of thought. I haven’t found a writer who appears to have owned a Hebrew/English dictionary and digested it using Suarez’s definitions. About every two years after CYPHER OF GENESIS found me in ’81 I would go to the nearest University library, Tulane, and search thru all the “cabala” books for someone starting with the definitions. Suarez wrote that physicists would be the most likely ones to appreciate the definitions. I did. We are taught to feel glyphs and formulas thereof; get graded on it. I haven’t looked for another appreciative physicist for awhile.

"Something is either in the “container” or concept or outside." JS The definition given Suarez for Baht is: a concept. I looked up the definition of a concept: a label for a group of similar things. My Heb/Eng. dictionaries give “in” as a definition for Bayt. It is the first symbol in Torah. The English Bible gives “In…….” When one consciously holds a concept in mind, say tricycle, for that moment things other than tricycles are outside the conscious mind. Giving it cypher value two is apt. In and out is a twoness. Humor: Careful, some women will be irritated if you speak of the concept “woman” as though you think they are all similar.

"Verifications? Sources?" CYPHER OF GENESIS. THE MERIDIAN and BANTAM MEGHIDDO HEBREW/ENGLISH DICTIONARYS"

JS I haven’ read the WP definition of verification yet. These titles refer to the books wherein the above ideas can be found.

"Carlo writes that the Mem(40) is a period of forming or teaching as in the womb. Surely Noun(50), often said to symbolize “fish,” has spiritual significance not limited to the calendar."

JS Best to leave this out of the page which was meant to be an introduction to the definitions.

As a graduate student in Baltimore in ’64 or ’65 before classes started I went to a party and saw my first N.Y.T. and Sunday supplement, Parade? It held an article stating that a Jewish male, over forty, who had memorized Torah, read all of Talmud and some other texts could apply to be taught the definitions of the individual symbols, letters in the Hebrew bible if he promised not to talk about it until he was 50. As a physicist it made perfect sense to me. The silence till “50” part appeared to be a prohibition like no “pearls before swine” or folks who won’t lay the foundation. It was much later that I noted the NT quoting the Pharisees as saying, “why are you speaking of these things and you are not yet 50." I took these as calendar time back then. Suarez is explicit about the significance of the Mem, 40 as a period of formation as in “40 years in the desert” and “40 years in the desert. I did speculate that the “50” in the NT and Parade article weren’t calendar ages but refer to Noun, 50.

"Not so with any other published books or internet offerings. The “opening” was for a moment and it appears to be closed."

JS Culled. This was my research. Allegorically, the door between those who know the definitions and us has only been opened during the ‘60s according to Suarez. The Parade article was also evidence. Suarez uses the term “opening.” Likely whoever “opened” to him used it. He wrote that there was a surge of open-mindedness in the ‘60s that prompted the opening.

Using your editing suggestions I'll write a more succint article and ask you to look at it. Thanks again.

Keilana, thanks for loaning me your blackboard and sending me to MB.


This site holds the Bibliography and a few books about Suarez. I include it as support for notability. I have only read three of his books and one book giving the definitions is sufficient for the article I think.

MUCH CLEARER TO CLICK THE SITE BELOW:

http://www.psyche.com/psyche/psyche.html

Carlo Suares: Bibliography: Published Works in French and English Library of Congress listings Sur un orgue de barbarie Librairie de France 1928 La Nouvelle Création Paris Edité par Au Sans Pareil 1929 Bousquet, Suares, Lamour ? Paris 1930 Krishnamurti [Paris] Les Éditions Adyar 1932 La Comédie psychologique P., Chez José Corti 1932 Critique de la raison impure et les paralipomènes de la comédie psychologique composés sous forme de dialogues avec Joé Bousquet et René Daumal Paris 1935,1955 Krishnamurti and the unity of man Bombay : Chetana 1953 Quoi Israël ? (les livres de la Genèse) ? 1954? Critique de la raison impure Paris 1955 Lettre aux Juifs, aux Chetiens et aux Musulmans ? 1957 L'hyperbole chromatique ? 1957 Cahiers Internationaux de Symbolisme - 1962 La bible restituée Mont-Blanc / Sophon 1967 / 1983 Le sepher yetsira Mont-Blanc 1968 Cantique des cantiques Genève, Éditions du) Mont-Blanc 1969 The Cipher of Genesis Shambhala 1970 I Am Cain in Maitreya 2 [Shambhala] 1971 The Song of Songs Shambhala 1972 Notes on Sepher Yetsira in Tree: 2 ed. David Meltzer Summer 1972 I Am Cain II in Maitreya 3 [Shambhala] 1972 The Autiot of the Shekinah in Tree: 3 Winter 1972 Vrai mystère de la passion de Judas Paris, Éditions Caractères 1972 The Passion of Judas Shambhala 1973 The Book of Eve in Maitreya 4 [Shambhala] 1973 La Nouvelle Création Paris 1929, trans. Eduard Roditi, revised 1973 Les Abris Mensongers Paris, R. Laffont 1973 Les Spectrogrammes/Spectrograms Mont-Blanc/Fred Wolf 1973 What About "Ra"? in Tree: 4 Winter 1974 The Resurrection of the Word Shambhala 1975 Mémoire sur le retour du rabbi qu'on appelle Jésus Paris : R. Laffont 1975 Ange masqué (L'). Traité de l'intelligible et du sensible Paris 1985 The Sepher Yetsira Shambhala 1976 The Qabala Trilogy Shambhala 1985 Second Coming of Reb Yhshwh Weiser 1994 The Mind of J. Krishnamurti ed. Luis Vas (conversation w/Suares) 1997


Books about Suarez

OuvragesEklectic librarie: Recherche par Auteur: carlo suares Eklectic Library: Ange masqué (L'). Traité de l'intelligible et du sensibleartistesecrivainssEzoOccult - le Webzine d’Hermès v2.01 : Les Tâches Immédiates de la Pensée Révolutionnaire.Critique de la raison impure (Jean-Pierre Voyer) ref. SuaresThe Mind of J. Krishnamurti by Luis S R Vas Coïncidence par Carlo Suarès - Kabbale En Ligne ("L'Ange masqué") Search: suares - ARSITRA.org - Bénéficier du nécessaire. Se consacrer à l'Essentiel Tables des matières (1956-1968)A Unidade do Homem - Henry Miller Johnshoemaker (talk) 15:39, 6 March 2008 (UTC)Johnshoemaker (talk) 11:43, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Dear MB,

I have applied for help on the page you suggested. Could you point me to one of the attempted clarifications that did not appear clear to you? Could you give me a hint of what you meant by "I am an aspiring cabalist---if there is a cabal" The Kabbalah article, defined as "mystical" is over my head too. Could you refer me to one sentence in it that you comprehend? I won't ask any more questions and thank you now for your pacience, John ShoemakerJohnshoemaker (talk) 06:53, 12 March 2008 (UTC)Johnshoemaker (talk) 13:02, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Andrew Saul

Andrew Saul does not sell supplements and does not receive finanacial support from supplement advertisers. According to his website, his sole source of income from Orthomolecular activities is royalties from book sales. I believe that most of the JOM editorial board are in the same position. I don't believe any of them sell or advertise vitamins.shbrown (talk) 10:33, 18 March 2008 (UTC)