User talk:John Hill

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Archives
2005 – 2006 Jan. 2007 – June 2007

[edit] Tibet

HI John. There appears to be a problem with my email so I can't log in - I hope its not bugged!!! The Jat people article is pretty huge!!! Have you considered condensing it a little and putting the full information into a series of new articles such as Jat people in Islam etc etc. Hope the books going well. Hey I just had to mention my grandparents on wikipedia!! Jennifer Sullivan happens to be my father's sister. Its odd that she has moved to France - when I am of Huguenot (and Jewish and Swedish) descent. Writing appears to run in the family -I'd very much like to publish some work one day.

There appears to be many missing articles on monasteries in Tibet. Many thousands were destroyed by the Chinese but it would be great if there is info available about historical monasteries that existed in Tibet -any idea where I can access this??

Hope you are well

♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you" Contribs} 13:10, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

HI John I am going to begin taking the coverage of Tibetan articles on wikipedia to the next level. I am very interested in Tibetan artefacts and art and am going to begin (amidst my film work) adding new articles on individual Tibetan and Bhutanese mandalas, paintings of buddhas etc. Portrait of Yutog Yontan Gonpo is the first - I have found a terrific site at Himilayanart.org -it has some 25,000 articles on it!!!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you" Contribs} 09:59, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

At present there appears to be a problem with my email unfortunately I can't log in as I said before. it comes up with an error -I do hope it hasn't been attacked ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you" Contribs} 09:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good work on Jat people

Thanks for checking false claims of jats.

Regards,

[edit] collusion

Dear John, I must say I am very alarmed to see that one or two "anti-Jat people" elements seem to be viewing as if you involved in a battle with them and giving you pats on the back "good work".

All I will say is collusion is seen as a serious offence on wikipedia and is reportable - don't get involved with their games. If these "anti-Jat people" elements have an axe to grind against the Jat people that’s their business just don't get involved. Just try and solve any differences with other long time wikipedians through compromise and working together .--Oiws 12:17, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] collusion?

Dear Oiws: There is absolutely no "collusion" between me and anyone else on the Wikipedia. What "collusion" is there if people write to my Discussion Page and congratulate me on the work I am doing? And why do you think thanking me for checking false claims constitutes "collusion"? On what grounds do you refer to such writers as "anti-Jat people"?

Furthermore, if you look at the edits carefully you will discover that the person who last wrote thanking me (but did not sign his note) has also been removing a number of my own edits which I will now have to restore. Sincerely, John Hill 22:47, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fixed

Ah phew!!1 its ok I just sorted it - email is okay now -don;t know what it was -thanks a milion fro sending me the e books - I'll have a good read later ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you" Contribs} 10:54, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I've think I've seen four. The first two you sent when it was working I think. Yes it was strange I would try to log in and it would come up with a computer error pages with thousands of digits and weird letters!!!! Its a relief to me now it is ok. There are so many topics on Tibet I would like to cover - I would also like to cover more biographies of contemporary Tibetan people. I have begun to do this -I can't remember his name but see Category:Tibetan musicians . He is a close friend of His Holiness. I'd like to cover more places also - I think I'll start an article on the Traditional Hospital in Lhasa later - I have some info a book I have. I don't know if you are interested but I am also very into Khmer history and history of Cambodia. I worked a bit on this yesterday with some new articles. Category:Cambodian sculptors - very intersting life -but very sad with the horror of the Khmer Rouge. In the coming weeks I will we adding new articles for Cambodia too ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you" Contribs} 11:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Ha! Some new articles Nomadic tents, Khata and Yak racing - it took me some time to convince new page patrollers it wasn't a hoax!!! Did you see yak racing at the Shoton festival? -it looks pretty good fun ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you" Contribs} 13:13, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re : Jatt Page

Hi John, I have noticed you have encountered some real abuse on the Jat page. This page could be a great informative page about Jatt people but as it stands it is a work of fiction. Kingdoms such as Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Nabha, Jind, Patiala etc were all Sikh Kingdoms, and not Jatt as the authors have claimed. I would question some of the refrences used as they do not have ISBN numbers. Finally I would like to point out that everytime I have tagged the article for neutrality the tag has been removed. The people who are editing this page are treating it as their own personal property and not the property of wikipedia. They are also not adhering to NPOV. --Sikh-history 09:29, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kingdoms

Sikhism is not a ethnic religion so for example if you are Chinese & Sikh and you set-up a kingdom - if then someone says your ethnic blood origin is Sikh is completely incorrect - that is your religion. Your ethnicity is still Chinese. The same thing applies if you set-up a kingdom and are Jat in ethnicity but Sikh in religion. If someone says your ethnic blood origin is Jat this is correct but you practice Sikhism as your religion. Maharaja Ranjit Singh was Sandhawalia Jat. Maharaja Ranjit Singh wasn't even a baptised Sikh (Khalsa) and drank alcohol, had a Muslim wife Moran, many mistresses - completely against Sikhism. Nabha, Jind, Patiala were of Phool Jats branch (Sidhu Jat clan) ethnic origin. --Sikh historian 00:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi Sikh Historian. Some nice points, but let us not forget, if the Guru Hargobind had not chastised the Bhullars, Dhaliwal, Bhatti and other Rajput tribes there would be no Patiala, Nabha or Jind state today. Thanks--Sikh-history (talk) 13:59, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dear John

Hi the only advice I can offer is to work with Burdak together because no matter what you may think his knowledge on the Jat people is impressive and in fairness I feel Wikipedia is lucky to have an expert like Mr Burdak on the Jat people. The Jat people have an impressive history and set of achievements made throughout history. I feel you have have work with Mr Burdak rather than against him, I had a look back many months ago when you two were working together and I thought you two made a pretty good team. It would be a shame too let it ruin it - so please make a fresh start and work with Mr Burdak - this is the best way to improve things.--Oiws 03:39, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is "Oiws" a sockpuppet? Administrators - would you please investigate?

Mr. "Owis", who claims to be a member of the Wikipedia's "Counter-Vanadlism Unit" and a "recent-changes patroller" has, apparently, made only two "contributions" to the Wikipedia - both to my Talk page.

The first was on 12th July this year when he warned me against "collusion" with "anti-Jat people" and said: "collusion is seen as a serious offence on wikipedia and is reportable." I strongly object to this completely groundless and insulting insinuation.

His next and final entry, so far, was on the 21st of July when he "suggests" that I work together with Mr. Burdak. He feels the "Wikipedia is lucky to have an expert like Mr Burdak on the Jat people." He then adds: "I feel you have have work with Mr Burdak rather than against him, I had a look back many months ago when you two were working together and I thought you two made a pretty good team. It would be a shame too let it ruin it - so please make a fresh start and work with Mr Burdak - this is the best way to improve things."

What "Owis" ignores is the fact that I have tried very hard for over a year to work with Mr. Burdak to improve this page, with very little success and regular abuse for my efforts. In that time Mr. Burdak has repeatedly been shown to distort history, to insert false and even non-existent references and to stoop to spreading outrageous lies accusing me of racial and religious prejudice. He was asked to apologise for these outright and baseless lies - but he never has. These facts are clearly recorded on the Jat people Talk Page and in the archives.

Mr. Burdak may well have considerable knowledge about Jat people but this knowledge is wasted as he has regularly demonstrated an appalling ignorance of how to assess historical evidence, and many times has been exposed as distorting evidence (and even inventing it) to support his own biased, vainglorious, romantic and, basically, racist view of Jat history.

I respectfully ask the Administrators to investigate "Owis" to determine if he is really a "sockpuppet" for someone else and, furthermore, to consider banning Mr. Burdak from these pages for abusing the trust of its readers and bringing both Jats and the Wikipedia into disrepute. Sincerely, John Hill 23:18, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yueji

Dear John Hill, WP never stops to amaze me, its only been 60 sec since I added a sentence, and I've got a feedback... I've got the book through ILL, from a Ca university, ISBN 9985-441-52-9, sorry for my omission, I just added ISBN. BTW, I was hunting for Zuev's books for a couple of years, seems that they were all burnt, his name erased, even Russian Academy of Sciences library does not have any of his publications. If you need more help, I will be happy to do what I can. Barefact 05:33, 22 July 2007 (UTC) Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Barefact"

For aborigenes from the Australian booneys we always make a special break :-). Can you please e-mail me? It would make things easier to handle :-). Barefact 06:16, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Favour required

Dear John can you help. Please can you apply the same rigour you have applied to the Jat people article on the Porus article there is user (User:Intothefire) saying King Porus was from the Kukhran according to Oral history. I mean come on this outrageous to even post something like this on Wikipedia without any references or verifiable references but say ORAL HISTORY says he was from the Kukhran is appalling. I am Indian and there is NO scholar or University academic who says he was from the some fringe group called the Kukhran. Most Indian academics would be appalled by this falsehood and unsubstantiated claim. Please take this up immediately and apply you regular rigour to this article - absolutely appalling abuse of Wikipedia.--Sikh historian 23:35, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Dear Sikh Historian: I have just had a look at the article on Porus and it seems there is no longer any mention of the Kukhran in it - so there does not seem to be any need to do anything about it at the moment. The "oral history" regarding Porus is mentioned in the article on the Kukhran but there is a proper "citation needed" tag on it and it was only entered in June. So, I don't think anything need be done about it until either a citation is found or a significant time has gone by with no citations forthcoming. I will, however, keep a watch on these pages and comment if and when I think I may have something useful or pertinent to add. Best wishes, John Hill 08:14, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hi John

Hi John, I think putting a small section of the most recent additions back by un-archived I think it was a good move by you and I agree with. However, as a Jat I find some of the comments made by other new users about Jat people quite offensive labelling an entire people in negative insulting words and descriptions. I must absolutely clarify I do not mean you. Whenever, you have commented it has usually been fair minded and respectful of Jat people so my thank you goes to you. However, please can you remind these new users of the Wikipedia talk page guidelines and behaviour considered unacceptable by Wikipedia on its talk page. Please just keep an eye on the unacceptable behaviour by these new others. Thank you once again.--Jat78 00:00, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] You're welcome

Hi John. It's a privilege being able to recognize your efforts. I empathise with you because I run into such opiniated people often, and like you, find myself at my wits end on how to argue with them. Keep up the good work!! Regards --Amit 12:15, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I hope you noticed the "Vandal whacking stick" too :D -- Amit 15:31, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh the best of luck with the book after so much work!!!! I'm sure it'll be excellent. I have been cutting down my Tibet work though and adding many Cambodian articles at present - its poorly covered ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 11:40, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Right I've split many of the sections on the Jat people article. It needs serious condensing now!!!!The article should try to be more balanced I think. The history section is a little overlong in relation to the rest of the article I think. E.g Ancient Jat Kingdoms section etc needs summarizing. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 17:12, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Wow a difficult period. I wish you the best of luck with what life throws at you. All the best and look forward to your return. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 11:29, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Stick !

It's right up there in the awards section, under the "Tibetan award...". Pick it up and get goin!!! --Amit 06:32, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jatt Names

You are undoubtedly right that the article ins nonsense, but I think it would be better if you take it to AfD, where it will get a more definitive verdict; if it is inserted again after that, it can be removed via speedy. DGG (talk) 17:57, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:On the way to market, Van, 1973.jpg

Thank you for uploading Image:On the way to market, Van, 1973.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI 01:38, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Photographs from Lake Van

Nice photographs! I noticed that the caption in the article (Kurds in Turkey) for the horseman at Lake Van gives the date as 1974, but the description from the photograph itself gives the date as 1993. Should be consistent... --Anthon.Eff 01:53, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Wow, that was quick! I had just uploaded 4 or 5 photos and put the wrong date (1974) on each of them and was in the process of correcting the captions when you wrote. They actually were all taken taken in 1973. Put it down to "Old Timer's Disease"! I should change the date in the full titles of the photos - not just the captions - but I am not sure how to do it - so have just added a note to each. Anyway, I am glad you enjoyed the photos. I hope to add more when I can find the time - they have got slightly damaged and pretty faded and need a bit of editing before I upload them. All best wishes, John Hill 02:02, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Can you be more precise about the location of the "Image:Armenian_gravestones._Lake_Van._.JPG" picture. Is it to the south-west of Van city, above Edremit, and overlooking lake Van, perhaps? I photographed the remains of a graveyard in that location this year, and it seems to be in the same location as your photo, based on the mountains in the background. If it is, then the gravestones you photographed no longer exist. If it is the same site, I would be interested to know if you have more photographs of it, or of the ruined church that was located close to the graveyard in the district of Edremit called Sarmansuyu. Meowy 21:22, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Hi John,

I noticed you added a picture to the Golden temple article (reformat fix: moved it to gallery). I didn't know you had visited the Golden temple in 1973. I'm a bit busy now but I would love to have a chat with you about your experience there. I have been to the Golden temple many times but I would love to compare my experiences with yours and a non-Sikh. As I say I'm a bit busy at the moment but when I'm a bit free- I would love to chat about your experience there all those many years ago. Kind regards--Sikh historian 09:44, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Indo-Aryan origin of Jats

I just ran into this via the AFD on Common Ancestry of Jatt Names. Looks like you're up against a combination of origin myth and outdated colonial anthropology. It's not a territory I know enough about to want to get involved, but a wider variety of editors might help: have you tried a Request for Comment? Gordonofcartoon 12:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jat

I share your concerns about this article. I suggest you take those to Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard for wider opinion and appropriate action .Shyamsunder 12:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help

Hi,

I am the owner them

How can I transfer in English Wikipedia???

I just wanna use in English Wikipedia.

I just wanna forbidden to use in Turkish Wikipedia

Can you help me?

Kızılsungur 03:39, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

No. U misunderstood me. I just wanna permit to use in English Wikipedia.

Where is the red © ???

I will put this tag.

Thanks a lot for your help

Kızılsungur 04:16, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Pls do not annoy with me. I am trying to improve my English.

Firstly, I am changing the names of photos. 'Cause I had uploaded the photos in Turkish Wiki, then a user put them in Commmons. Their names are Turkish. So that I have got to change their name as English.

Thx again

Kızılsungur 04:25, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't wanna put this tag in my photos hehehe. I wanna put the red ©

Meanwhile I was a professional user in Turkish Wikipedia.

Kızılsungur 04:28, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

You are a clever person my bro. (Meanwhile I am a Tengrici Someone says it "Shamanism") I got 48 hours punishment a few hours ago in Turkish Wiki.

I don't understand why you are having trouble getting permission to upload the files into the English Wikipedia. In fact I don't like Turkish Wikipedia because of admins. They are so bigoted. They did the biggest false for Turkish wikipedia. 'Cuz I was a diligent new user there. I have approximately 4800 edit and 171 article which I began and improved. Have a look my "land mine" article. I wrote mostly all of them. I added the solutions how we can find the mines and destroy. I added about jammers. But they blocked me because of their individual rules. I said to a user just "I think You talk like a newbie." I didnt say "you are a newbie". 10 minutes later they blocked me. I could defend myself. This is not fairy. I thought they had to warn me about this circumstance. To sum up, they are bigoted. They give orders about users immediately. Not considerly. Anyway...

Thx for your big helps my bro

The unique God will be with you

Kızılsungur 04:52, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

It is no problem. My English is not good. That was my fault.

I had a muslim before. Than I grew up and chose the my religion. I searched and searched before changed my religion. I read hourly lots of books of about Tengrisism. I have a bro whose name is Erdal and live in Germany. He is a Turk and he is my master. He did teach this religion to me. Tengricilik is the elite article in Turkish Wiki. 'Cause Erdal and me worked a lot for this. But you must know: Erdal is a muslim. He is so interested this Religion. Later I will explain the gods (I thought they are like angels) of Shamisim. I will tell Umay, Ülgen, Erklig Khan and other gods later. I am a happy person and I have to hide my religion in Türkiye. 'Cause there are lots of radical muslim here.

The God = Allah = el-Ilah = Tengri. They are the same. There is only unique god.

Loves from Türkiye

Kızılsungur 05:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More fuss over the Jats

I've just had an unwarranted ticking off from User:Street Scholar because of my efforts to inform Ravi three months ago. Why is this? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 15:33, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AFD

Would you mind striking out your earlier delete vote at this AFD? I too changed my opinion from delete to keep after the improvement in the article due to User:Zeborah and it would be a pity if our earlier opinion (and votes such as these ) resulted in the article being deleted. Regards. Abecedare 19:44, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Franco-Mongol alliance

Hi John, I thought you might be interested in the above article. I am also trying to make it a featured article: you can vote should you wish to [1]. Best regards PHG 07:00, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much John for your support! I am glad you like the article. PHG 05:13, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] re: Yarkand

Thanks for your note. I appreciate your hard work and the fact that you take references seriously. I have seen your work on other articles so I know you will come through. Regards, --Mattisse 00:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Hi my buddy,

What's up?

I am very busy nowadays.

Take care of yourself

Kızılsungur 22:18, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Its OK block has been lifted ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 14:59, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Phew it was ok there was a misunderstanding with my IP address. Yesterday was terrible for many reasons but I got through it. I feel much better today. Thanks for supporting me when you can't even edit a talk page I had top email somebody!! Here recently I've resumed my work on Tibet I've added a few article stub slike Trimon and the infamous Drapchi Prison. But you'll be most pleased to know I've beguin adding all of the List of towns and villages in the Tibet Autonomous Region‎. With the new WIki Atlas technology once the A-Z is completed we'll have the most detailed map of Tibet on the Internet.Hope you are well. Amigo ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 11:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Troyes Cathedral

With respect to this edit...

Assuming you have cited that correctly (which I have reason to doubt, but more on that below), that notion is built on the following series of theories that have all at one stage or another been debunked.

1. Ernst Herzfeld, when he investigated the ruins at Kuh-i Kwajeh postulated (Sakastan 115-116) that it had been build during the reign of Gondophares
2. Herzfeld saw three figures painted on a wall, and postulated that they represented the Magi. He then happily concluded that Gondophares must be Gaspar
3. Herzfeld identified (the hitherto unidentified) figure of Christian legend known as Gondopharr-Rustam with Gondophares

Herzfeld's identification of Kuh-i Kwajeh with the Parthians falls flat. As we now know, the place was built during the Sassanid period, at least 5 centuries after Gondophares. With that #1 and #2 are dead in the water. Nonetheless, between 1932 and 1987 numerous authors had taken Herzfeld's identification at face value, and propagated it to the extent that it is now hard to get rid off.

Now onto Bivar (whom you cite): Bivar himself - though following the identification with the Acts of Thomas (and which is primarily accepted only on Herzfeld/Bivars authority) - debunked both the identification with the Magi and with Rustom (the latter also being a Herzfeld favourite). Indeed, the Encyclopedia Iranica article on Gondophares, which is written by Bivar, does not even use the word "Magi," so fringe had Herzfeld become by 2003.

-- Fullstop 04:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Bivar does indeed claim on p. 30 of this latest work that: "In church iconography, there is a colourful representation of Gondophares in the stained glass of the cathedral of Troyes in central France."

I have tried to check this on the internet with no success so far. If you know how we might check this claim I would be very grateful.

However, I am glad you questioned me about the passage as it prodded me to reread the Acts of Thomas and there is no mention of Mary or the "twin" in them - only that Thomas (Gk. Diordios = "twin") refers to Jesus as his brother. I have, apparently, combined two stories I read some years ago and did not check them closely enough before I wrote the note. Therefore, I have toned down that passage. Cheers and best wishes, John Hill 06:18, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Does Bivar cite a source - or other kind of justification - for that p. 30 statement? I have not seen that connection made before, but then again, it may have appeared in a journal or context (such as art) that is outside my sphere of interest.

Unfortunately the book is too new for it to have been reviewed yet or to be otherwise on the academic radar. IB Taurus, the publisher of the book, doesn't even list it on its website yet, and google books which includes all other IB Taurus titles, doesn't have a preview yet either. I expect a first review in December or so.

Regards, Fullstop 21:03, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

ps: please reply here, saves the back-and-forth.

Hi Fullstop! No, Bivar does not give a source for his claim in his chapter ("Gondophares and the Indo-Parthians", pp. 26-36) about the representation of Gondophares - and I have (so far) been unable to find any supportive evidence. Yes, the book has just been published as Vol. II of The Idea of Iran series in association with The London Middle East Institute at SOAS and The British Museum. Do you have any suggestions as to how we could check on Bivar's claim? Cheers, John Hill 22:29, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

I've since done some digging and come up with ... nothing, at least not on JSTOR or ProQuest or at Cambridge Journals or on springerlink or on Vascoda. G-scholar has nothing for Gondophares+Troyes either, which is a reasonably good sign that "its not been said."

Yes, I checked Amazon (the ISBN you cited is broken btw), thats how I know its an IB Taurus book.

-- Fullstop 03:09, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi again! Thanks for doing all that checking. I, too, have been unable to discover anything more about the representation of Gondophares at Troyes so I have written to Prof. Bivar to ask him if he has any references or other info. So, I think I may leave it all there until I here from him (maybe it will stir another reader to reply as well). I have also repaired the ISBN number on the book - thanks for pointing out the faulty link. Cheers and best wishes, John Hill 10:40, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

good idea. Please post a heads-up on my talk page when he replies. Thanks. -- Fullstop 18:02, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) John, whats the status on this? Have you received a reply from Bivar? -- Fullstop 22:39, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi! Yes, I wrote to Bivar but never received a reply - so now I am not sure what to do about this. I am thinking of posting a query on the Lonely Planet website to see if anyone can check it out for me. Will let you know, of course, if and when I hear anything. Cheers, John Hill 23:20, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, what exactly are you going to ask for? -- Fullstop 23:40, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

ps: please reply here (to save the back and forth)

Hi again! I have become very curious about this so I have just written to both the Lonely Planet discussion list (where tourists exchange information from around the world) and also sent an email letter to the official Tourism Office in Troyes containing the following request:

"A respected scholar, A.D.H. Bivar, has claimed that there is a colourful representation of the Indo-Parthian king Gondophares - to whose court in Taxila (in modern Pakistan) the Apostle Thomas is said to have visited after the crucifixion of Jesus - in a stained glass window of the cathedral of Troyes.

The claim is mentioned in: Bivar, A.D.H. (2007). "Gondophares and the Indo-Parthians," pp. 26-31. In: The Age of the Parthians'. Edited by Vesta Sarkhosh Curtis and Sarah Stewart. Ib. Tauris, New York. ISBN 978-84511-406-0.

I am wondering if you could please check out this claim (and, if possible, could I buy or otherwise obtain a photo of the window)?"

Will let you know if and when I hear anything. Cheers, John Hill 23:52, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Any news on this front? -- Fullstop 16:39, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. Even though the Wikipedia entry for biblical Magi is altogether rather flaky, the statement "Christian legend may have chosen Gondofarr simply because he was an eastern king living in the right time period" correctly summarizes the general - and appropriately skeptical - treatment of the issue. Its simply too strange to contemplate a king going on six-month long gander.

Both wp and the dark-legion.org link also ignore the fact that in Greek "Magi" is a specific term for a Zoroastrian priest (not specifically "astrologer", though the priests were also astrologers).

Anyway, please give me a day or two to mull over how best to deal with it. Thanks. -- Fullstop 00:02, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tibetan towns and villages

HI John. I am currently as you know adding all the towns and villages in Tibet. I want to create a standard infobox Tibetan settlement for all the towns and villages. Let me know if you think the info box on Domartang is a good idea. There don't appear to be many WP:Tibet members I can speak to as most are inactive. If you and others such as Nat Krause approve I am going to attempt to add this to all articles on all towns and villages. The locator map and nearest towns and villages is also an asset I think. I now wish we could have images on all the villages too. Hey go back to tibet!!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 15:30, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Cool. Ekai Kawaguchi is a fantastic new article great - I also love the fact you took the images from a book !!!!! For me wikipedia is the greatest task of decentralising knowledge in history and this is exactly what I want to see is summarising all knowledge from every local library in the world into one giant edition!!!. Imagine how many such articles are missing!!! I'm gonna take it a bit easier of the next few weeks on here and do some more reading incidentally I have a book on the Brahmputra a travel book of a journalist hiking down from the Tibetan foothills. Its quite excellent I definately have to visit Tibet sometime. Hey you ought to quit those fags stub them out!!!! Not good for you. I have a painting of the Potala on my wall and Machu Picchu where my parents are heading next year. I'm glad you like the infobox. I think it helps to know where these places are but it is a shame theres not much web info available on them when I am certain they could all be fuller articles. I want people in the world to know there is actually more to Tibet than Lhasa!! It'll take some time I am feeling a bit lazy at the moment!! Hope you are well. Hey you don't have any more images of Lhasa do you? Theres a few landmarks I wouldn't mind some images for. All the best. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 15:21, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

CHeck this out at Youtube. It is one of the most beautiful and spiritual thangs I've ever seen or heard. It makes me feel so peaceful - check out:

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoTSIRE_WAs

♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 16:26, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi John. Thankyou for your message. I would love to visit Aussieland someday. I have relatives living down in Melbourne incidentally my (Great as in mothers uncle )uncle is Wesley Harris (now theres a man who has travelled!!!!) who almost made it to general (world leader) of the Salvation Army who if I went I would stay with for a while then venture up into Queensland where I also have dome distant relations and an old surfer friend of my dads known as "The Bear" who stands 6ft 8 inches has lived for thirty years since emigrating. The Great Barrier Reef looks absolutely stunning! There are so many places I would love to visit. In Peru I do have cousin living in Lima where he is working as a tree geneticist (ecology is a career I'm thinking about) and regulates some of the Peruvian national parks. He has worked in Tegucigalpa where he met his beautiful Honduran wife and indeed Costa Rica for many years. It would be good to see him again then travel through the Andes. Its a fascinating history also of the Aztecs, the Mayans and the Incas on that continent. Machu Piccu and the Andes like Tibet I reagrd as one of the worlds most magical and atmospheric places. There so many places to go so little money!!!

Seriously keep up the new articles even if they are stubs - I really think its terrific the prospect that specialist info on Tibet should be part of wikipedia delving parts in history the vast majority of the world would not have access to or never know about. This is exactly why I wish I had my own library of such specialist books particularly on central asian history that I can create many articles from. I'll return to adding more biographical and cultural Tbietan articles once I have finsihed mapping out the country. Yesterday I started 500 villages!!! -ready for adding the infobox and locator map. I really hope they can then expand fully. Regards always good to hear from you ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 09:17, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Did you know you can design your own main page if you set it to default??? I have mine programmed in as Wikipedia:Main Page of Blofeld. Cool? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 18:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I've added one of your fantastic images to my article Nomadic tents. The images of Tsurphu are great!!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 20:49, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On September 17, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ekai Kawaguchi, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thanks for this article John, which was kindly nominated by Carabinieri (talk · contribs). We really do not have great coverage of Buddhism on WP so it's great to have articles like this. Do feel free to self-nominate in future as most entries are self nominated. Happy editing, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:49, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I've undone your edit at Zoroaster

I've had to unwind your edit at Zoroaster for a number of reasons outlined below. Please keep these issues in mind when you readd.

• When adding references to an article, please first check what kind of referencing they use. Your edit was not appropriate for the referencing used in that article. I'm going to have to rewind your edit completely. If you wish to readd it, please use the notes section + harvard referencing + {{citation}} templates.
• For a hotly debated subject such as the date of Zoroaster or the date of the Vedas, I'm going to have to insist on multiple tertiary sources. Not that your addition actually contradicts the existing text, any RV date has to come from the same source as the one that establishes Zoroaster's date based on the RV date. Moreover, the Date section is in its entirety a cohesive unit with introduction, body, and summary. Your edit destroyed that coherence.
• In your edit you removed a key section that began with "this 9th/10th century BCE date is now almost universally accepted among Iranists". This sentence is NOT open to question (read: I don't give a hoot what Oberlies has to say). Anything contradicting the Iranica will have to be extraordinarily well cited.
• Also, in your rewrite, don't forget that the article is about Zoroaster. The date of the RV is only relevant in a very tiny aspect, and an essay on RV dating is inappropriate. Oh, and its seldom legitimate to say "usually" when citing only one source. When readding please take care that your assertion does not contradict with what the rest of the article/section says, or what other articles say.

Thanks. -- Fullstop 04:50, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Dear Fullstop: Fair enough - your points seem good ones and I accept them - if I do make any further edits I will certainly keep your comments in mind. Thanks for the advice. Cheers, John Hill 05:16, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Dalai Lama & Bishop Tutu. Carey Linde.jpg

Thank you for uploading Image:Dalai Lama & Bishop Tutu. Carey Linde.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI 00:29, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tibet

Wow you've been excelling yourself your images are fantastic and they are a privelage to look at. Excellent work on Dhingri - check it out i've kitted it out with the new info box and nearest towns/villages etc and connected with MSN map. - not a bad effort between us huh? I wish every article on the town and villages could soon become like this!! Great !! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 10:11, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Its also great that you have been scanning images form your books of earlier Tibetan fugures invluding many of the stubs I started ages ago. I'd forgotten I have started any of them. John could you tell me roughly how many towns and villages you have information on in Tibet? And what images of towns/villages do you have. If you let me know I can prepare the village articles with infoboxready for us. I'd really appreciare your work on the towns and vilages -I want to know about far more places in the country vt unfortunately I don't have any info on them just the basics ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 19:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi John I am currently working through List of towns and villages in Tibet. most have been stubbed for now -but I will gradually be adding the infoboxes and geo data/maps of them gradually like Alamdo etv etc. If you have info on any of them in your library even a few basics please add what you can thanks. Nice new pictures -. For many of them there probably isn't much available but i do feel an eneyclopedia of this size should include them even if it just geo /location data for now. After all places in the USA, UK which have only 50 people have an articles so why shouldn't Tibet have most covered?? I'm sure each of these places does have a story to tell but unfortunately on the web there isn't hardly anything available. I'm currently taking it easy for the next few days or so so won't be editing that much regards ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 09:53, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I think Muru Nyingba is referring to Muru Ningba Monastery ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 10:41, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Mmmm I'm kind of regretting adding all the places. I have a lot of work to do adding the infoboxes. What do you think? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 19:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I guess - I mean Bamda is definately a worthy encyclopedia article and it does fill in gaps in knowledge as do the others. I agree with you though that it is an enormous task to fill all of them like this but if I work through them gradualy this is the best thing and not to feel stressed about developing everyone of them immediately. The infobox is actually easier than you'd think -a cut and paste job and just adding the relevant details but I wish a bot could have done it. Hey great work on the Panchen lamas - I remember stubbing them ages ago . I really hate stubbing I prefer to write decent articles like yourself - like my new article on Aaron Sapiro but so much needs doing with setting up articles that I rarely have time to write like this.. But hopefully it can develop - I did want your advice on this as you have been Tibet and I didn't want to think I was wasting my time on these places if they have nothing to give. Thanks. Hope you are well great work Saludos ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 10:59, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi John congrats also on the DYK. I was wonderong if you clear up why there are two categories Category:Tibetan emperors and Category:Tibetan kings. I have a feeling the kings category is redundant and should be deleted and relocated to emperors. What do you think? I also have a long request for a missing article which I have known has been missing for ages. Could you create an article on the Tibetan "Annals" which I've seen red linked in countless articles. It appears as if it was of prime importance to documents about early Tibetan history. Know anything about it? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 09:12, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

HI John I've seen Dzongsar Monastery red linked in many articles. It this another way of spelling an existing article or is it ineed missing? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 00:06, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tingri/Dinghri

Please revert the cut and paste move you just made. A cut and paste move is not acceptable, as it loses the edit history of all of the edits made in the original page. You have to use the Move this page link. If you can't do that because there is already an article there, you will need to go to WP:RFPM to have the move done. Corvus cornix 22:27, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Not a problem. Thanks for taking care of that.  :) Corvus cornix 22:55, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] An article which you started, or significantly expanded, Ralpacan, was selected for DYK!

On September 30, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ralpacan, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! Nishkid64 (talk) 16:53, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image sizes

Hi. Sorry not to have replied earlier but I missed your note, seeing only the latest comment from someone else on my talk page.

From your response, I suspect you are not aware that you can control the default image size from Preferences -> Files. Those with vision issues can go there and make all their images larger. Or those with slow connections can specify a smaller image size. Manually specifying an image size overrides that, taking away user control of image size. So we typically only manually increase the size on images with detailed diagrams or text which needs to be readable, so the user can maintain control over the size of photos or other images where readability is not an issue.

I hope this helps you understand the image size issue. Other things from the image use guidelines you might want to note. Starting a section with a left justified image is discouraged, as is putting images on both sides of text so that the text is squeezed between them. These probably cover most of the issues I try to correct. Also, when there are lots of images, it's better to use a gallery since it frequently gets so that the above guidelines cannot be observed.

Best wishes to you as well. GlassFET 14:40, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion of Image of Indian Bison

Mr John Hill, I would like to draw your attention about Deletion of Image of Indian Bison. Somebody vandalized Indian Bison as 'Indian Buffalo' and you deleted the Image without any discussion saying that it is not Bison. This is again vandalism. From History now your bias has come to wildlife? One should not delete unless he is an expert and it should not be done without discussion. Here it is important to know that Indian Bison is the species Bos gauraus, locally known as Gaur. It is not buffalo. It is The Indian Bison. Hence the Image again added to the article - Bison. Please do not do such actions in future!!! --burdak 03:30, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why I moved the image of the so-called "Indian Bison"

It seems that Mr. Burdak has not read the article on bison from which I moved the image. It very clearly says: "Bison is a taxonomic group containing six species of large even-toed ungulates within the subfamily Bovinae. Only two of these species still exist: the American Bison (B. bison) and the European Bison, or wisent (B. bonasus)."

In fact the article on Bison states very clearly: "The gaur, a large, thick-coated ox found in Asia, is also known as the Indian Bison, although it is in the genus Bos and thus not a true bison."

This means that, even though the Gaur is sometimes referred to as the "Indian Bison" - this is an incorrect naming (rather like the American Bison being called a Buffalo - which it is not). So, it should not be pictured on the bison page.

I will, therefore, move this image once again - to its proper place in the article on the Gaur (Bos gaurus). John Hill 04:02, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On 12 October 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Dus-rong Mang-po-rje, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Well done! --Espresso Addict 13:27, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dalai Lama and Desmond Tutu photo

I really love the photo Image:Dalai Lama & Bishop Tutu. Carey Linde.jpg which you uploaded (right). It shows two great men who have been touched by intense grief and suffering, but have managed to preserve their childlike joy. However, the image page for the photo doesn't give very many details about it other than the photographer and permission. It appears to be a conference of some sort--what was the name of the conference? What organization hosted it? What is the specific date of the photo (more than "2004")? This information would be helpful. Thank you very much. MishaPan 19:09, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi MishaPan! Sorry I have taken so long to write but I wrote to my friend Carey Linde who took the photo of H.H. the Dalai Lama and Bishop Tutu and he just replied today Oct. 16th saying: "The info on this photo is that there was a conference in Vancouver in 2004 with noble peace prize winners around the Dalai Lama’s theme for education the heart. I took the picture at a round table event." Best wishes, John Hill 04:52, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] An article which you started, or significantly expanded, Mahāvyutpatti, was selected for DYK!

On October 16, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Mahāvyutpatti, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! Nishkid64 (talk) 03:24, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh wow this is so great. Image:Dalai Lama Congressional Medal.jpg. His holiness receiving the medal. Now this isn't going to do Chinese American relations very good is it!!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 20:50, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Or are you not pleased with the Dalai Lama receiving a medal from George W.? What are your views on it? it does make me wonder if Bush has some agenda to aggravate China with it ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 17:28, 19 October 2007 (UTC) Yes I had a late one last night - i was staying up waiting for my parents to return from San Francisco. I happened to just look at the new pages before I logged out and saw your new article just as you had posted it! You must think I just hang around waiting for you to do something!! Keep up the good work, Regards ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 11:56, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Blackfoot gathering, Alberta..JPG

Hey, this is a nice photo so thanks for uploading. Do you have any more info you could post though? Who are these people? More specifics about where/when it was taken? Thanks, TheMightyQuill 15:56, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Indo-Greeks

Hi John, for your information, the article on the Indo-Greek kingdom is under FA review following a request by User:Devanampriya to User:Blnguyen. You may leave a comment at Wikipedia:Featured article review/Indo-Greek Kingdom should you wish to. Best regards PHG 11:59, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Please check the references before you weigh on this article. I began by supporting it myself, as the tangled conversation at the FAR will show; but there are three widely accepted reconstructions of Indo-Greek history: Tarn's from 1938 and Narain's from 1957 are detailed and intricate conjectures, which differ widely from each other; Bopearchchi, in 1991, disagrees with both on many points. When I had the books in front of me (they're not my bedside reading, although I had studied the subject long before) I found that the article told Tarn's narrative, fairly accurately, but as though it were consensus.

As another matter, many of the notes are in error. I checked a sample, and more than half were simply wrong; Blnguyen has checked others. For example, when I surveyed the article (here) footnote 4, about Taxila as a capital, cited the following phrase: a new and orderly Taxila with a rectilinear street plan of established Hellenistic type. There are two problems with this:

• Our article was claiming that Taxila was refounded as a capital. The source doesn't say that.
• More seriously, on looking up what it actually did say and on what authority, I found that, where our article claimed this as 180 BC, Taxila's foundation as a Hellenistic city is of uncertain date, anywhere from 200 BC to 100 AD; it may even have been given a Hellenistic plan by the Kushans, who learned about such cities in Bactria.

I've fixed this, and so far the fix has stuck; but all the notes will have to be checked before we can put this on the front page without embarassment. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:58, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi John. Sorry to bring you into that, but you are highly knowledgeable on Central Asian history, and, I think, highly capable of making a comment on the general validity of this Indo-Greeks article. All references are valid, as I just take quotes from published sources, and, as always, I am open to other sources and references being added (I have no pretention to be exhaustive!). You are welcome to vote now (Wikipedia:Featured article review/Indo-Greek Kingdom), as the article goes into FARC. Don't vote if you don't feel like it. Best regards. PHG 18:18, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

"I just take quotes from published sources". That's the problem. PHG: the way to edit is "read, understand, explain"; you are omitting the second, and frequently the third, step. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:48, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

In general you are right, but when an article is challenged, the only solution is to show what authors actually said. This is the only way to get rid of abusive interpretations. I have added about 100 references and quotes for this very purpose. PHG 18:59, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, one of them the example about Taxila above, where you have misunderstood both the sentence quoted and the context in which it stands. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:02, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Could you be more specific on what would have been wrongly quoted?? And let's leave User:John Hill's page if you don't mind. PHG 19:08, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

No, I don't see how I could be more specific. You used a quote to support a claim which the quote doesn't make, and which the authority actually quoted disagrees with. You've done each of these separately as well. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:18, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

You know, I am not even the one who wrote about these "capitals" initially, and, sorry I do not see what your problem is with the quote about the streets being of Hellenistic type. PHG 19:28, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Where in that phrase is the word capital, or any synonym of it? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:04, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much John for your support! I do appreciate tremendously! Best regards. PHG 18:59, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On 26 October 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Mustagh Pass, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Royalbroil 12:06, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture in the Tibetan script article

Hi. As it looks now (without your change), at least on my computer at home and at work (both Windows XP, Mozilla Firefox but different resolution), the picture doesn't cover any text. It just looks a bit strange to have it on the left side of the article. Before that (after your edit), I found the picture covering the upper right edge of the Tibetan alphabet shown in a big font. I have no idea why it seems to be the other way round on your computer. I had a look at both versions in the Internet Explorer (at work, right now), there neither version covers anything, but there's a large gap where the picture sorta "pushes" the text down. Strange. A good alternative would be to move the picture (or the text) around so that they can't interfere each other anymore at all. Wanna try it? :) — N-true 13:09, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Agvan Dorzhiev

On 1 November 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Agvan Dorzhiev, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 16:47, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tibetan

Well, you're welcome, but i didn't do the most difficult thing in this world, the names were already in Tibetan in several wikipedias.

If you want, you can do the same thing, you can create a link from, hmm, Dutch wikipedia for instance, something like: bo: བསོད་ནམས་ཕྱོག་ཀྱི་གླང་པོ་་[2] and you write the name in Tibetan and པན་ཆེན་བླ་མ་(Pachen Lama) 2, you can put the years of death and birth, too. In my humble opinion, even those short contributions are important in wikipedias like Tibetan wikipedia.

About the boxes of all Dalai Lamas, they were already created too, you have to contact the person who made them.

There are several places where you can download Tibetan fonts, you can find some of them in Tibetan script article links.

But maybe you have to configure your computer first. This computer is in Spanish, and it is not configured with Asian complex script, but I found you this: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/winxp/yourlanguage.mspx

You have to go to start>control panel> etc. In that link, they explain it all. Look for your windows CD-ROMs too, maybe you need them :)

I think that's the only thing i can do for you from here, Australia is so so far away to get the metro and help you out :)

I wish i have helped you

Ciao

Gaudio 10:37, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, you can use me to practise your Spanish if you want, but i can speak English more or less :)

Happy to know that all that information was useful for you :)

Ciao. Gaudio 12:46, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thibet under the Tang

I answered to you on commons. The Cambridge History of China and myself are talking about Thibet in the years 641 (vassalization) to 670 (fully successful rebellion). You are talking about the years 740's, one hundred years later. Yug 13:37, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

By the way, If you are interested by Thibetan calligraphy or are able to look on books on the subject, that's may be really welcome. In the Calligraphy article, I wrote the sections about European Calligraphy and East Asian Calligraphy, but I think the Thibetan calligraphy may be expand :

• historical evolution (main historical styles) ;
• main feartures/specificities ;
• tools

Regards, Yug 13:41, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reply to above note

Dear Yug - First of all, thank you very much for your good comments on the need for more work on Tibetan calligraphy in the Wikipedia. Unfortunately, I know very little about it - but I will ask my son who has far better knowledge of Tibetan than me.

Now, I don't want to make a big issue of all this but the map does not make it clear that Tibet was definitely not a Chinese vassal for most of the time between 616 and 710 - it was only for about 20 to 28 years, at the most, that one could make this claim and, even then, it was probably more of a nominal rather than real vassalage, because China did not have troops in or any control over Tibet, which was a very powerful state at this period. The rest of the time Tibet was very definitely not only independent, but mostly hostile to China. I know you have just marked the period of Tibet recognising China as 641 to 670, but even this is not quite correct. According to the Tangshu and the Xin Tangshu (See: Pelliot's Histoire ancienne du Tibet, pp. 7, 85-86; and Lee's English translation in The History of Early Relations between China and Tibet from the Chiu t'ang-shu, pp. 15-16), the Tibetans were arguing with the Touyuhuan from 661-666 during which time the Chinese could not make up their mind which side to support. During the Zongzhang period (668 to 670) the Chinese deliberated whether to send an army against the Tibetans (Pelliot, pp. 85-86) and, finally, the Tibetans got angry and totally defeated the Touyuhuan (probably in 669). In 670 the Tibetans invaded and conquered 18 vassal states of the Chinese including Khotan and Aksu and the "Four Garrisons" of the Chinese in the Tarim Basin, which they then held for a very long time (Pelliot, p. 86). So, I think your map should show Tibet only as a nominal vassal for the period from 641 to 661, or, perhaps, to 669, at the latest. I believe it should also make it clear that Tibet was totally independent for the rest of the period 616-710. I hope I haven't made things too difficult for you. Best wishes, John Hill 23:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok: this time, I really appreciate your answer ! Really clear, sourced, et efficient answer ! (You read the Tang Shu and Xin shu !!! I'm still looking for them everywhere =.=")

When I wrote "670 (fully successful rebellion)", it's because -from what I read- it appear that the Thibetan kingdom is clearly "agitated" in the 660's, but not yet frankly revolted. The Thibetan kingdom was effectively powerfull in this time, but the Tang Taizong Empire was amazing, and it's only his death in 649, and the lack of strong and military abilities of his son and sussecor (Tang Gaozong) which allow the Thibetan King to remembered his previous ambitions (in the 660's, and making a major attack on the Chinese Empire in 670 or 669 I don't remember).

I understand now that your opposition for this map are not on my claims, but on the fact that the legend it's not clear enough.

Today I wrote this answer, and I will try to find a solution later. Yug (talk) 09:12, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I think I will change the colors, to make a clear difference between temporal vassal and the Tang Empire. I don't like to add dates in historical maps... dates are too controversial since they are often link to one definition (=POV). In the other hand, The legend in the image page already show clearly that thibet was "vassal" only from 641 to 670. It is just need to check that this information is also copy in wikipedia. In example, the article Tang Taizong already make a perfect honest use of the map, stating clearly the legend and this thibetan point.

So I currently plan to change a bit the colors and to continue to encourage a fair use of the map (stating clearly the full legend). No more is need. Yug (talk) 10:50, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

See Nlu's comment.

I will probably make this image editing in one month, but I take this issue as now close. If I'm too slow to edit the map, feel free to remember to me that I have to edit it.

If your son may make a 10-15 lines summary about thibetan calligraphy : that's would be wonderful :] Yug (talk) 11:01, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your comment concerning Rig Veda

Hi, John,

Thanks for your observations about what I said on the Rig Veda discussion page. You asked me to reinstate the comments I deleted, so I did.

We'll see what kind of discussion, if any, they elicit. Anger, agreement, amusement -- all of these perhaps. What I hope happens is that people who edit for egotistical reasons, that is, to push themselves forward as experts, real or imagined, will start thinking a bit more deeply about what they're doing. Idealistic, I suppose, but who knows...

Thanks again.

Timothy Perper 08:11, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, BTW -- you might find my comments on the discussion page for Elizabeth Báthory‎ interesting. They're way at the bottom. Timothy Perper 08:25, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] copyright

Hi,

I removed the statement "The Sixth Dalai Lama finally visited Lobsang Yeshe, the Fifth Panchen Lama, in Shigatse and requested his forgiveness, and renounced the vows of a novice monk. Though he continued to live in the Potala Palace, he roamed around Lhasa and other outlying villages, spending his days with his friends in the park behind the Potala Palace and nights in taverns in Lhasa and Shol (an area below the Potala) drinking chang and singing songs. He was known to be a great poet and writer and he wrote several poems." from the Tibet article, as it looked like a copyright violation to me. It appears word-for-word on http://namgyalmonastery.org/hhdl/hhdl6. My guess is you either need to make clear it's a verbatim quote, or rephrase it. see WP:Copyvio for details. Yaan 11:05, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Sad to hear you have physical problems. Hope it gets better. Yaan 16:24, 14 November 2007 (UTC) I am also sad to hear you have physical problems. Are you OK buddy? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 14:13, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

LOL yes those images are cool aren't they!! I have a pretty good sense of humor as people always tell me and couldn't help it. Oh they are images I came across on my wiki travels and help piece together the whole Ernst Stavro Blofeld/ Dr. Evil thing which is intentionally exaggerated!!! Its a parody more than anything -the whole idea of a volcano base!! in which I hope the boring image taggers and people who have no personality will see and lighten up when they visit me and to show I am nothing like them!!! I'm very sorry to hear about your back -it sounds terrible. My uncle who is in his mid 60s has started getting it and its painful to see him walk. Looks like plenty of painkillers and hot baths and cups of tea should keep you going for the time being for the time being. Have you thought about looking at some herbal remedies/alternative medicines to help cure it? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 11:11, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] iguania vs iguana

John,

The article you cited mentions iguania not iguana two entirely different things. The genus Iguana contains the Green iguana and the Lesser Antillean iguana neither of which ever mentioned by Fry as being studied for having venom glands (because neither of them do). thanks--Mike Searson (talk) 00:25, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Dear Mike: Thanks so much for pointing out my careless mistake - I have added a note on your talk page and corrected (I think) all the entries in which I made this error. Cheers, John Hill (talk) 04:12, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

John, I used your reference in the snake article in the venom section. Here's how I formatted it:

<ref name="Fry_2006_earlyevolution"> {{citation | last = Fry | first = Brian G | last2 = Vidal | first2 = Nicholas | last3 = Norman | first3 = Janette A. | last4 = Vonk | first4 = Freek J. | last5 = Scheib | first5 = Holger | last6 = Ramjan | first6 = Ryan | last7 = Kuruppu | first7 = Sanjaya | title = Early evolution of the venom system in lizards and snakes. | journal = Nature (Letters) | volume = 439 | pages = 584-588 | year = 2006 | doi = 10.1038/nature04328 }} </ref>

If you want to add it to articles using inline citations, you should be able to copy/paste it from here!--Mike Searson 15:36, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Komodo dragon

Thanks for the help to Komodo dragon. I noticed that you moved Komodo dragon to Komodo Dragon. In the sources I've seen, it's been with the dragon uncapitalized. I moved it before from the capitalized form to the uncapitalized form before to be consistent with my sources. Would you mind if I moved it back to the uncapitalized form? bibliomaniac15 03:30, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Komodo Dragon vs. Komodo dragon

Hi! Thanks for your note on the common names. There is no hard and fast rule for most animals, but it has been the common convention with bird names for many years to capitalise the first letter of each major part of the common name - hence Bald Eagle, Common Crow, Black Swan. See, for example, the notes at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Tree_of_Life#Animals and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:BIRD#Bird_names_and_article_titles. This general rule - for some reason - has not always been applied to other orders of animals - I am not sure why.

However, the capitalising of common English names is becoming much more widely used, and so you will frequently see names written like: "Sign-bearing Froglet" (rather than "Sign-bearing froglet") and "Ornate Soil-crevice Skink" (rather than "Ornate Soil-crevice skink"), Alpine Cool-skink (rather than Alpine cool-skink) or Curl Snake (rather than Curl snake). None of these forms is "incorrect", but it is certainly becoming more standard to capitalise.

There are good reasons for this. First it clearly shows that the last part of the name is seperate from the first and to some degree classificatory - thus, Froglet, Snake, Monitor, etc. In the case of the Komodo Dragon I think it usefully emphasises that we are not talking about some other sort of "dragon" (perhaps raising thoughts of dragons in mythology), and that it is a shortened form of the name of a real animal. Thus, I think it especially important to refer to them as Dragons rather than dragons when the first name (Komodo) is dropped - as was the case in the article. Finally, I think it is best to stick with one convention to improve consistancy and prevent confusion and I don't see why the convention should be limited to birds.

However, as I said above, your method of naming is certainly not "wrong" (there are not really rigid rules for common names - as for scientific names) - I just think that capitalisation is not only becoming more commonplace, I believe it is preferable. Over to you. Best wishes, John Hill (talk) 04:13, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Caps on names

Hi John,

It bugs me, too. I don't have a preference , either way...just as long as we're consistent (although subconciously I probably capitalize everything) most of the original species articles I created were Latin taxo names (Cyclura for example and that's how I've always referred to them). You may want to bring it up at the reptiles and amphibians project page. You might even want to join it. I've been trying to fix alot of what were "caresheets" on pets passed off as science articles.--Mike Searson (talk) 05:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] venomous lizards

John,

I cleaned up a few places where you added the source to Fry. To clarify...Mexican Beaded Lizards and Gila Monsters have always been known to be venomous. While I agree with the essence of what Fry says, I do not agree with the way he presents his findings (its also not that new of a revelation).--Mike Searson (talk) 05:44, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Alot of what he's saying was said by Trooper Walsh at the National Zoo in Washington DC, 20+ years ago, concerning monitors. In simple terms...venom is saliva. Saliva is a pre-digestant. It's purpose is to break down food. Ross Allen did some studies on venom breaking down food "from the inside of the prey" to help the snake digest it. People have suffered non-bacterial tissue damage from bites by humans, cats, horses, dogs, etc...why would a non-venomous reptile be any different? Read back that quote you included in the Bearded dragon article and parse it out, you'll see what I mean. I'm just glad my tax dollars aren't going toward his grant money.--Mike Searson (talk) 06:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] George Bogle

Ah I thought we were missing the article on George Bogle (diplomat)‎ it was wrongly linked in tons of articles - good find and nice work on the DYK. I recently started Deforestation in Brazil and have been working on [[Thunderball (film). Forgive the besh barmak humour on my user talk page. It isn't meant to be offensive to Central Asian culture -I didn't want you to think this ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 14:18, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Hello? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 14:45, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Nope never been to Argentina in my life I don't know how you thought that? Perhaps its because I've done work on Argentine cinema?. I live in Barry, Wales in the UK!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 11:09, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

LOL no amigo!!! Although they do speak welsh in Patagonia! I think it must have been the argentine flag you had seen before when I was working on argentine cinema. If you see my user page now I have the welsh flag and am from Barry, Wales!! I live in a part where very few people speak welsh although in Cardiff more people speak welsh who have ocme from elsewhere in wales. I barely know any words of welsh at all. Too many llll and wychhhhhh's! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 12:06, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Mae'n byrw glaw heddiw. This means It is raining today!. I know hardly anything else. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 12:09, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes there are some lovely parts of wales such as the Brecon Beacons and the Gower Peninsula. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 12:15, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if you have heard of these people but I know Charlotte Church and Gavin Henson pretty well I used to see them every week at Culverhouse Cross and have met the Stereophonics and Kelly Jones on several occasions. I haven't seen Shirley Bassey or Tom Jones yet but i have seen Catherine Zeta Jones outside the Millenium Stadium in cardiff! Have you heard of these welsh exports? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 12:21, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Wow is this a coincidence or what? Talk:Australian Aboriginal mythology. A few das ago I asked the Aussie wiki group to cleanup the article as it was terrible -it needs a humungous amount of work. Then who do I find but you have edited it!! Either we are very much on the same wavelength or you saw it in the wiki page!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 13:04, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Altan Khan

Hey nice work on Altan Khan. If you look at the image -you'll see I added it a while back. Altan Khan keeps popping up in Tibetan history doesn't he!!!

Hi John, can you try to expand the Buryats article if you have info on them. The article seems like it is missing alot. Hey its a cold one today here!!! Quite the opposite from Aus at this time of year -I think it would feel odd having christmas in the sunshine!!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 11:42, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On 3 December 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Gungsrong Gungtsen, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Royalbroil 14:20, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Keriya Town

Hi, I noticed that you created Keriya Town. But I have not found such a town in Keriya County. Could you please give me any online source for this town's name? If you like, please leave a message at Talk:Keriya Town. Thank you. --Neo-Jay (talk) 17:13, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reply on Keriya Town

Hi! Thanks for your note. I think the problem you are having is because in the late 19th century the previous Chinese name for Khotan (Pinyin: Hotan) 于窴 (Yutian) began to be applied instead to Keriya. So, the small town of Keriya is now called 于窴 (Yutian). It seems difficult to get much information on the present size and amenities of the town itself although the county is supposed to have a population of some 220,000. I haven't had time to do a thorough search on the internet yet, but there a couple photos taken in the town at the following website: [3] There is also a map showing a fairly large town at: [4] Hope that helps. Cheers, John Hill (talk) 22:54, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On 12 December 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Altan Khan, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Cirt (talk) 14:29, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] re: Daxia

Dear John: I agree that Ta-Hia should be renamed to Daxia. The only issue is whether Daxia should be a main page or just a disambiguation page for this ancient state and Daxia River. I think that you can move Ta-Hia to Daxia (Bactria) or Daxia (state) and leave Daxia as a disambiguation page. --Neo-Jay (talk) 22:02, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's OK with me. You may place the request at Wikipedia:Requested moves.--Neo-Jay (talk) 22:18, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks for your greetings. Have a nice holiday! --Neo-Jay (talk) 22:35, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

By the way, Wikipedia does not allow renaming a page by cut and paste (see Help:Moving a page). If we cannot move a page, placing a request at Wikipedia:Requested moves is the only thing we can do. I have supported your proposal at Talk:Ta-Hia. Thank you for your contributions.--Neo-Jay (talk) 22:54, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again for your friendly support and help - I have just listed the article at Wikipedia:Requested moves. Best wishes, John Hill (talk) 00:07, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi buddy I see you have already become acquainted with the good Mr Neo. John I've managed to sort out an infobox for the counties too. Hopefully this will be the first stage to cleaning them up and expanding. I also started making my own map of the counties. See Image:Coqencounty.png. Does this look OK? -I know the shading isn't perfect - I shaded in the relevant county to try to help people. If you see Coqen County now you'll see what I mean. Soon enough I hope we can write full articles on these counties. Felicidad Navidad!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 11:07, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Dunno. I've found a way to modify the maps tidily now see Burang County. Hopefully soon enough every county and village will look like this!! I remain optimistic. I;m currently looking at setting up some places in Burma. Did you know there are over 34,000 settlements in Burma -increible amigo! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 11:31, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I read your new articles long ago!!! (noticed I nipped in and categorized one or two of them) I was thinking how great your writing is!!! Keep up the good work ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 11:34, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On 21 December 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Palden Lhamo, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Maxim_(talk) 23:16, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hi John

Hi John, I'm sorry that it’s been a while since I spoke with you. As I said at the time I was very busy. Therefore, lets pickup where we left off we were speaking about your visit to Amritsar all those years ago. The point you make about Punjab being partitioned being sad is so true. The Punjabi people regardless of the religion have always been one people for thousands of years. It was such shame that for political reasons they were split. Lets talk more. Please tell me why you decided to travel so much and in a time period when many did not?

Moreover, side-point I and a few other long time editors shall do a neutrality check and other checks on Jat people. The article is much better now than 6 months ago and there are many excellent sections in it now. Most of it is now of good standard. I think it is unfair for any highlight tags to be place at the top of the article because it unfairly casts bad light on the excellent and very good sections that exist on the Jat people article now. Therefore, I shall remove them from the top but please, if absolutely required as a last resort, then add them in sentences that are uncited and do not have any published literature about them.

Finally, Let chat more about your time in Punjab I am very interested to compare your experience in Punjab, best regards friends.--Sikh historian (talk) 05:51, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reply to Jat Historian

Merry Christmas and all the best for 2008 from the Bald One ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 13:24, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind note informing me of all the changes you are making to the Jat people page - and it is good to hear from you again! Yes, I am thrilled with the many improvements to the page and, especially, the removal of racist comments and the more extreme and fanciful sections. It also reads much better now - largely thanks to you.

I have tried to refrain from doing much editing myself (other than a few small grammar corrections and the like) because I have been worried about stirring up the previous unhelpful arguments - but I have been keeping note of the improvements. Anyway, I am not a Jat nor even a Punjabi, and it is far better done by someone who is.

I still think the whole article needs much more shortening and tightening up but, yes, I am in full agreement with removing the tags at the beginning of the article (though some of the ones still heading various sections should, I believe, be retained until the issues are satisfactorily dealt with).

You refer again to my travels in the Punjab. I am not sure of how much interest they will be - I never really spent that much time there - and I never tried to learn the language as it was so easy to get around with just English and a smattering of Hindi and people were so unfailingly helpful and kind to me. I was usually travelling from one place to another, although I did spend a few weeks in Ludhiana when my wife was very sick and had to undergo major surgery at "Miss Brown's Hospital" (in 1980) and I have spent 2 or 3 weeks altogether in Amritsar and have stayed several times in Patankot.

I would like to thank you for taking on this difficult and sensitive job - I am so relieved to see it all progressing so well. I hope when you are done with this page you can find the time to do some work on other, related pages as well (such as the Origin of Jat people page). Congratulations, many thanks, and all best wishes for 2008. As someone said to me yesterday: "May your taxes be small and your joys great!" Cheers, John Hill (talk) 23:52, 22 December 2007 (UTC) PS. I will put this not on your Talk page as well.

[edit] See me having a wonderful christmas time

(Its start raining as I speak lol) MERRY CHRISTMAS AMIGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 10:51, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Ah I wish I could completely devote myself to Tibetan articles on wikipedia. I have a chistmas present for you. I;ve started articles on the Dzogchen Rinpoche and created a nice template to connect them specially. Do you have any info on these. Also I need you to research Chokpori, which I believe is the sacred hill at the back of the potala which once had a monastic school built on it I think so my humble source tells me. Could you check this and do what you do best. I only wish I had the books that you do! Also see ne wimage and infobox for Great Gampo.Have a great Christmas -both you and the wife and the little un! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 21:17, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

v • d • e Dzogchen Rinpoche of Tibet Pema Rigdzin, 1st Dzogchen Rinpoche (b.1623) · 2nd Dzogchen Rinpoche  · 3rd Dzogchen Rinpoche  · Mingyur Namkhé Dorje, 4th Dzogchen Rinpoche (b.1793) · Thubten Chökyi Dorje, 5th Dzogchen Rinpoche (1872–1935) · Jigdrel Changchub Dorje, 6th Dzogchen Rinpoche · Jikme Losel Wangpo, 7th Dzogchen Rinpoche (1964–)

Wishing you the very best for the season - Guettarda 03:59, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

You really are excelling yourself! The Bald One is proud of you, not only have you devloped Chokpuri and added some beautiful new images!! but you've started Batang County I;ve noticed, -excellent collaboration there between you and Neo. I wish every article on a village and county in Tibet looked like that!!! Keep up the great work! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 17:25, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

First of all have a great New Year -may 2008 bring you peace and happiness and a significant relief in back pain so you can edit longer lol!! I've reassessed Gampo as a B class. It would be great to see him up to a GA status which I believe can be achieved. It has been a long time coming and the article has improved a lot since last year when it was in disarray. I've also requested that MJC add the tibetan;chinese parameters to the monarch boxes so we don't have that undightly extra blue box but have it wirtten into one neat box. This will make a big difference to the Dalai Lama articles also ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 12:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Part of a series on Tibetan Buddhism
History
Timeline · Related-topics
Schools
Nyingma · Kagyu · Sakya · Gelug · Bön
Key Concepts
Three marks of existence Skandha · Cosmology Saṃsāra · Rebirth · Bodhisattva ·Dharma · Dependent Origination · Karma
Major Figures
Gautama Buddha ·Padmasambhava·Je Tsongkhapa · Dalai Lama · Panchen Lama · Lama ·Karmapa Lama · Rinpoche · Geshe · Terton · Tulku
Practices and Attainment
Buddhahood · Avalokiteśvara Four Stages of Enlightenment · Tantric yoga · Paramitas · Meditation · Laity
Major Monasteries
Changzhug · Drepung · Dzogchen · Ganden · Jokhang · Kumbum · Labrang· Mindroling · Namgyal · Narthang · Nechung · Palcho· Ralung · Ramoche · Sakya · Sanga · Sera · Shalu · Shechen · Tashilhunpo · Tsurphu · Yerpa
Major Festivals
Chotrul Duchen· Dajyur· Losar · Monlam· Sho Dun
Texts
Kangyur ·Tengyur ·Tibetan Canon ·Mahayana Sutras
Art
Sandpainting ·Thangka ·Tree of physiology
Comparative Studies Culture · List of topics Portal:Tibetan Buddhism
This box: view • talk • edit

Hi John. I've just created a Tibetan Buddhism template. Could you help develop it? It is to replace the too generalized Buddhism template on Tibetan articles ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 20:08, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the main Buddhism template is too generic for all of the Tibetan buddhist articles such as lamas etc. It is a very a large subject in its own right but its on the right track -this should replace the main Buddhism template I think for Tibet. Perhaps you could add all of the key belief systems etc. pLease can you respond to me on this one ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 20:26, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Yep I agree with you on all points. I think it is important we keep the burgundy to reflect the robes but I'm not certain how to change the colour to black and keep it wikilinked. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 10:14, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

As for changing the photo? What could be more suitable than having an image of the founder of Tibetan Buddhism? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 10:25, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm confused John you're sending me mixed messages. I thought you said while it was great that I used your image you said somebody would come along and replace it. I thought it was fine anyway. I only changed it because I didn't see the point of somebody else coming along and replacing it. I'll restore it -just a little curious to think why you thought somebody might change it later. Theres no point in restoring it if somebody else is going to revert it but I;ll do it ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 12:04, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes incidentally I was thinking about Bon yesterday and what a contradiction it was that it pre dated buddhism in Tibet yet has been labelled by His Holiness as a fifth school. Ideally that needs a bit more coverage. Notice I didn't add the Tibetan Buddhism template to it as it seemed a bit contradictory but it may as well be there. Luckily I managed to get hold of a cheap and rather basic guide to Cambodia - there should be some basics I can add to the articles which are seriously lacking at present. I wish I could gain access to a library in this area and try to find some books on Tibet , Burma and Cambodia =both Barry and Cardiff library have temporarily closed! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 12:24, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Hey no probs!! I preferred your image too but when you said something about somebody will change it I was wondering why. I've lightened the burgundy. The only way I can get the text black is to unwiki the links in the headers. Man I've been busy today check it out!!! Best regards buddy ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 22:06, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

That Japanese magazine sounds like fun and quite quirky! - perhaps you could post a copy through a vent in my Japanese volcano ! lol! regards ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 22:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

What on earth is Redtigerxyz talking about? I thought the maroon and gold colours were about as evocative of Tibetan Buddhism as we can get. As for bright colours -what about all of those beautiful prayer flags, thangkas and sand mandalas!!! lol ♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 10:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Flickr image block

Hi John. Can you do a test for me and see if you can save any image from flickr into your pictures. I've managed to negotiate with somebody on flickr to upload many images on cambodia and laos and when I save them they are coming out as blanks. It looks like flickr as programmed some kind of protection on their images to prevent anybody lifting them from the site using "spaceball". Could you see if this happens to you also. Thanks ♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 13:12, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Possible contributions to Australian Aboriginal mythology!??

I noted a few of your edits, every now and then, as the Australian Aboriginal mythology article was 'upgraded' and 'expanded' - thanks for those, plus your initial encouragement!

Included within your edits have been references to Cook/Cooktown/Gugu Yimidhir and other relevant (and interesting!) materials that I do not myself have immediate access to! I was wondering :

a) from within your Cook/Cooktown/Gugu Yimidhir material - whether you have references documenting local Cooktown/Gugu Yimidhir stories/myths about their encounters with EMS Endeavour crew (including Cook?).. and, if so, whether some version of this/these stories/myths might be added to the section on Captain Cook?

b) from within your other Aboriginal mythological materials (eg Havilan and Hart on Barrow point?) - whether you might be able to include some version and/or associated commentary on that mythology under the appropriate language name .. within the individual groups name .. to start putting some balance to the current anthropological literary favourites in the Northern Territory (I'm about to do one for the Aranda)??

I thought I'd ask! Cheers Bruceanthro (talk) 13:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Great!! Please enjoy your Atherton tableland travels ... and I will take you up on your agreement/offer to contribute by posting a reminder here, sometime in Feb. All the best! Bruceanthro (talk) 15:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The references for Tibet.

You had a few justified removals, but then you accidentally started to review the Afghanistan list thinking it is the Tibet list (its an easy mistake to make, no worries; I've made it before), so I reverted a couple edits of yours. Thegreyanomaly (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 05:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Yecheng/Kargilik County

I'd like to see your thoughts on the proposed merge of Yecheng to Kargilik County. Please give your comments on Talk:Kargilik County. Thanks. --Nlu (talk) 17:55, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tibet history enhancements

Hi John, I appreciate your enhancements to my additions in Tibet's history. It looks like you have even more historical details you could (and should) add. A while back I got real frustrated at the Tibet and History of Tibet articles because they were written almost as bad as the Korean history articles. It's next to impossible to get an idea of a nation's borders at most points of its history by reading some of the Wiki-history articles, so I'm applying some of the info I gather while creating my maps to the articles. Thomas Lessman (talk) 22:30, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Infoboxes

HI John. Just to let you know I've got the parameters fixed inti Infobox Monarch for Tibetan/Chinese. Those blues boxes now should be intergrated into the main one. See Songsten Gampo. Could you help decluttering pages you know of by intergrating the chinese boxes into the monarch main plate? Thanks ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 17:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

OK no probs take care - I just saw your message but you missed my talk page and left a message on my user page!!! I rarely look there! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 15:08, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

LOL!! I thought it was amusing, I've done that before too. Hey happy 65th!! I thought you were 63 turning 64. I must have missed a year!!! Take care of yourself and hope to see you editing in a few weeks. Best regards ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 12:18, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Welcome back friend. Hope you had a great time and didn't swim in too much magma! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^$1,000,000? 11:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

HI friend. See Tenzin Gyatso. Gradually we can get shot of those hounding blue translation boxes and can add it to the main one. Looks much better doesn't it. If you could help merge boxes for many of the lamas this would be great -I'm afraid I'm a bit busy adding french towns at present. Have you noticed how the edit count has jumped from 2,225,000 to 2.236,000 in a two or three days? Well thats me! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 22:30, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey. We now have an image for every reincarnation of the Karmapa. Beautiful images I uploaded about 12 of them. I'll aim to continue with adding those articles on Tibetan art some time too ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 01:52, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Losar

John Hill, Losar is currenting happening, how may I ensure that it is flagged as a current event? Is there a News Wiki article that this Wikipedia article can interwiki? How may I progress this? Is there anything else you recommend?
Blessings in the mindstream
B9 hummingbird hovering ^{(talk • contribs)} 06:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hi John

Hi John. I am again being attacked by User:Elonka and some of her supporters in relation to the Franco-Mongol alliance article: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Franco-Mongol_alliance/Workshop. I don't really want to draw you into this, but your knowledge of the workings of Central Asian history makes you a reference on these subjects. Please feel free to share your opinions. Best regards. PHG (talk) 02:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Maralinga, South Australia

Thanks for picking the minimisation up at Maralinga, South Australia Paul foord (talk) 01:01, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your very prompt support for my edits. I could not believe how the whole mess had been whitewashed! I worked for many years in Central Australia and have had the privilege of hearing first-hand many horrific stories from survivors of the Maralinga tests - both Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal, and this rewrite of history really angered me. All best wishes. John Hill (talk) 02:34, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kabul

Hi John, I know this is a while ago, but I've just come across this edit of yours [5] at Kabul. The summary you gave was "a few additions", but the edit consisted for the most part of replacing the BC notation, used from the outset of the article, with the BCE notation. I think "a few additions" is stretching it somewhat, unless you meant the addition of 'E' to 'BC'. As I'm sure you know, changes such as the one you made don't comply with the Wikipedia policy, especially when the edit summary doesn't explain what's being done. Can you recall why this change was made? I'm thinking of reverting it, but would welocme your comments first. Thanks, 82.20.19.200 (talk) 00:20, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reply on use of Common Era

Hi! Well, yes, this was indeed a long time ago - October 2005 as I discovered on serching - an edit I made early in my "Wiki career". I made 4 changes of era names in that edit (plus added a phrase of text) from the Christian era nomenclature, ie. I changed BC = "before Christ" and AD = Anno domini = "Year of our Lord" to the newer, but neutral and more widely acceptable BCE ("Before Common Era") and CE ("Common Era") for several reasons:

1. It does not seem seem appropriate to use a Christian-based era to date events in a country which is almost totally Muslim. This is rather similar to dating events in, for example, Roman history in the Hegira era - 622 CE (or AD) marking the first year of the Islamic calendar, or 1 AH (anno higirae)]. It would be surprising to me if Christian Italians (and probably other Christian groups) did not complain if someone started doing this.

2. Both Muslim and Jewish scholars have complained to me about the use of the "Christian Era" for dating, and preferred the use of the "Common Era" and several suggested I use it in my writings.

3. The use of the "Christian Era" was introduced around the world by European imperial powers who made a point of ignoring local eras (such as the Saka Era in India or the Hejira Era in Muslim countries) and substituting their own era and system of dating on their colonies and in the scientific and historical literature.

4. The so-called "Christian Era" is misleading anyway as almost all scholars - including Christian ones - now agree that it is most unlikely that Jesus was born in 1 AD. But, because the "Common Era" has been decided to start in 1 AD, and this is just a convenient decision, it does not imply any particlar accuracy in relation to historical events and does not carry with it religious or imperialistic overtones.

I hope that explains my decision. I don't, myself, feel very strongly about the use of one over the other (and it is very easy to get used to both - as they are so similar), but I do think it best not to unnecessarily annoy people of other cultures and faiths. Cheers, John Hill (talk) 08:26, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi John, Thanks for getting back to me. Under the circumstances it would not now seem appropriate to change the long-standing edits on Kabul. I would, however, make a couple of points; Kabul is not a religious topic, it is a geographic topic. Secondly, when looking at issues such as these, it is the readership that matters rather than the subject. The English Wikipedia is aimed at English-speaking people, who, by-and-large are much more familiar with AD/BC than CE/BCE, and don't, so far as I am aware, generally object to its use. If there is a Hebrew Wikipedia then I would expect dates to be given using the Hebrew calendar, even for Christian-related events and subjects. I find it strange that Muslim and Jewish scholars should object to AD/BC when they have their own calendar that they are free to use. Regards, Chris. 82.20.19.200 (talk) 11:43, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Chris! Kabul is certainly not a religious topic per se, but it is the capital of a strongly Muslim country. I see BC and AD as inaccurate anomalies - although I agree they are widely recognised. However, it's up to you - either system is fine with me though the use of CE and BCE seem to be more widely used by scholars these days - particularly by non-Christian scholars. Anyway, whatever you do, I suggest having a look at the Wikipedia article on the Common Era and consider why the use of the so-called "Christian Era" may be offensive to some. Best wishes, John Hill (talk) 03:19, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] From Jim Archer

Are you the John Hill who attended Lakefoeld School with me. Email is vientianepigeon at yahoo.com I cannot use the symbol for at on this computer in Perú. Doesn't work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.41.192.214 (talk) 22:44, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Looking for Wikipedians for a User Study

Hello. I am a graduate student in the Department of Computer Science and Engineering at the University of Minnesota. We are conducting research on ways to engage content experts on Wikipedia. Previously, Wikipedia started the Adopt-a-User program to allow new users to get to know seasoned Wikipedia editors. We are interested in learning more about how this type of relationship works. Based on your editing record on Wikipedia, we thought you might be interested in participating. If chosen to participate, you will be compensated for your time. We estimate that most participants will spend an hour (over two weeks on your own time and from your own computer) on the study. To learn more or to sign up contact katpa@cs.umn.edu or User:KatherinePanciera/WPMentoring. Thanks. KatherinePanciera (talk) 02:15, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the interest. We are actually not expecting you to be a content expert, but rather to work with some content experts in your role as an active Wikipedian. We'd love to have you in the study if you are still interested. If you send me an email, I'll give you more specific information. katpa@cs.umn.edu Thanks again. KatherinePanciera (talk) 03:50, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Please add Tibetan people article to your watchlist.

Hi John!

I think you should add this article to your watchlist. Please see its History and you will know how I called you!

Thank you! Good luck!

Angelo De La Paz (talk) 15:23, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ethnic Origins of Foreign Figurines found in Tang Tombs

Dear John:

We are trying to obtain images from the home areas of “foreigners” who were depicted in Tang tombs with the hope that they can be matched up with the figurines found.

Any suggestions as to where we could find appropriate paintings/murals/coins etc. would be very much appreciated. 

I am not sure if this is an appropriate way to contact you but I could not find your email address on any piece you had written.

Ever

Michael S. Sanders

Director of Expeditions and Research

Ancient Cultures Research Foundation

Mike.Sanders@AncientCultures.net —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.27.157.2 (talk) 20:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Image:Guru Rinpoche - Padmasambhava statue.jpg

A tag has been placed on Image:Guru Rinpoche - Padmasambhava statue.jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section I8 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is available as a bit-for-bit identical copy on the Wikimedia Commons under the same name, or all references to the image on Wikipedia have been updated to point to the title used at Commons.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. Sdrtirs (talk) 04:10, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I am happy for the deletion as it seems, in fact, that I (or someone else) have uploaded the same image to both the Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons by mistake. I just hope the image will continue to show up on all the pages and boxes in which it is now found. Thanks, John Hill (talk) 07:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

If the image stays in Wikimedia Commons for being for free use, it can be seen in ALL Wikipedia such en.wikipedia.org, pt.wikipedia.org, es.wikipedia.org, it.wikipedia.org and all others. And if it remains as the same name, as I did to this, it isn't need to change the articles to all images remains in the same articles that were before deletion on wikipedia. So don't worry! --Sdrtirs (talk) 15:31, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History of Tibet

Gimme danger is looking for editors to improve the History of Tibet to Good Article status. Since you've contributed to the article in the past, I hope you'll be able to participate. (talk) 00:52, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

How are you these days?. I don't hear much from you anymore!! Howz things? Have you been away? ♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦ ^{"Visit Mr. Bigglesworth?"} 09:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi Ernst! So good to hear from you again! Yes, I have been away for short periods a couple of times and have also been so busy working on my books and articles and just dealing with everyday chores that I have only spent minimal time on the Wikipedia recently. Mostly I have just been trying to keep an eye on a multitude of articles I am particularly interested in and reversing vandalism and making minor editing changes where appropriate.

I think I am busier now that I am "retired" than I was when I was working! I have been meaning to write to you but just haven't got around to it. I notice that you have been contributing mightily to a vast array of extremely diverse and esoteric subjects as always. Good on yer!!!!! It seems like you are really enjoying yourself. (Please let me know when Goldfinger has completed the body painting in gold - and send me a photo please!).

Thanks for the info on the History of Tibet article. I will certainly have a close look at it over the next few days and see if I can make any improvements or additions. BTW - I will be away from the middle of next month until the middle of July (H.K., Canada, and the U.S. of A.) and may be unable to make much in the way of contributions during that time. All best wishes. May the magma keep you warm!

John Hill (talk) 07:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hi John

Hi John, Citations have been put in that most western scholars do NOT view Jats as Aryans. Finally someone has started to put this article right by highlighting that most western scholars for the last 200 years view Jats as Indo-Scythians NOT as User:LRBurdak has been pushing POV as Jats being Aryan.--Trv93 (talk) 08:10, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi John, thanks for your kind note. There has been pushing of POV by User:LRBurdak to whitewash that most academics view Jats as Indo-Scythians. The reason why I noticed this criminal distortion by User:LRBurdak (making Jats Aryan) is because I am a professional anthropologist. A lot of the Aryan sections on that article are rubbish political POV by User:LRBurdak. The general held consesus in anthropologist circles is Jats originate from the Oxus River Valley in Central Asia and DNA tests are been able to strongly indicate this. I've changed the sentence to "some scholars" but the truth is, this is playing right into User:LRBurdak hands by making his "Aryan theory" seem a common held view, which is totally wrong. Most of the Aryans section should not be there, it is misleading the reader, it is not the acedmemic consensus. Please remove or reduce most of the Aryan section, as a professional I tell you it is wrong. Best regards.--Trv93 (talk) 08:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] third dalai lama - qinghai vs. hohhot

Hi, it seems you added some info about the meeting between altan khan and the (would-be) third dalai lama to some articles, including the ones on Altan Khan and the 3rd Dalai Lama themselves. I am pretty sure all sources I have read so far locate this meeting near lake Qinghai. The Mongolian name of the lake (and the whole region) is Köke naγur (Blue lake), so I guess it is possible to confuse it with Hohhot (Köke qota, Blue town). Would it be conceivable that you or your source are mixing up these two places? Yaan (talk) 11:10, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi Yaan! Thank you for your note. According to Thomas Laird, this meeting did take place at Altan Khan's new capital, Köke qota, 'Blue Town' or modern Hohhot. Here is what he says: "When Altan Khan and the Third Dalai Lama met, the monk gave a long Buddhist teaching to a large crowd of Mongols. They gathered at Koko Khotan, Altan's capital, which is now Hohhot, capital of the Chinese province of Inner Mongolia. The site of these teachings became blessed ground, and Altan financed the construction of Mongolia's first monastery, Thegchen Chonkhor, there." Laird, Thomas (2006). The Story of Tibet: Conversations with the Dalai Lama, p. 144. Grove Press, N.Y. ISBN 978-0-8021-827-1.

The other sources I have available here are not so detailed or specific - but do back up Laird's account. For example, Giuseppe Tucci, in his book, The Religions of Tibet (1980), p. 252, says about the 3rd Dalai Lama that, ". . . in 1578 he visits Mongolia, where Altan Khan confers on him the title of Dalai Lama; he dies in Mongolia during a second visit." See also: Tibet by Thubten Jigme Norbu and Colin M. Turnbull (1968), pp. 218-220 and Tibetan Civilization by R.A. Stein (1972), pp. 81-82. Best wishes, John Hill (talk) 07:32, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Additional note: I have just discovered another reference on this subject and thought I should add it here to hopefully end further speculation on this subject: "Sonam Gyatso was a brilliant scholar and a zealous missionary. He visited Mongolia, and in 1578 converted the leading prince, Altan Khan of the Tumed, together with large numbers of his followers. The Khan gave Sonam Gyatso the title of Talé (Dalai), meaning 'Ocean', and that title was later applied retrospectively to his two predecessors." Tibet & Its History, 2nd Edition (1984) by Hugh E. Richardson, pp. 40-41. John Hill (talk) 08:39, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

replied at talk: 3rd Dalai Lama. Regards, Yaan (talk) 16:44, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] While the most implausible theory can stay in wikipedia, why not the one makes more sense?

Mr.Hills, I saw your translation of chinese documents, it is a great work!. But I am strongly disagree your position on your views on Tocharian and Uighurs. In this whole article, you and others keep talking about Tocharians without any mention to Uighurs. Apparently you also supporting the extreme chinese view that "uighur expelled" the tocharians . Where did you find that evidence? do you have any slightest proof?. As you and other chinese scholars translated , the chinese monk Xuanzang saw Kashgarians with green eyes. The mongolians called Uyghurs "color eyed people" . 11th century's Uyghur turkolog Kashgarli Mehmud called kashgar the city of Turan, and wrote kashgar is the ancient homeland of his forefathers. He never mentioned any mass genocide or expelling you referring to. Today you still can see mostly caucasion looking kashgarian and khotenese Uyghurs (see these extreme examples with so called white features: http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4778/2314836332e36b2ac7b8bpv5.jpg , http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3121/22430775076281cb598bcg6.jpg). Do you honestly believe these people came from Mongolia??. For me and so many scholars, Uighur population is the mixture of tocharian and turkic (hun) people make more sense and more plausable. While most implausible theory with no evidence can stay in wikipedia, why not the one makes more sense. Thanks FACT NEEDED (talk) 04:17, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I am puzzled

Dear "FACT NEEDED": I am very puzzled by your comments above. There appears to be some misunderstanding. First of all, I am not sure which article you are talking about. As far as I can remember, I have never said that Uighurs expelled "Tocharians" from anywhere. If you are talking about my draft translations of the 'Chapter on the Western Regions' from the Hou Hanshu and the Weilüe which can be found on the Silk Road Seattle website hosted by the University of Washington, these deal with events which happened well before the first historical reference to the Uighurs during the Wei dynasty (386-534 CE). Please let me know what I have written that upsets you and where you found it so I can try to answer any criticisms you may have. Many thanks, John Hill (talk) 09:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] erdene zuu not the first monastery in mongolia?

Hi, I think you added that "(wrongly)" to the claim that erdene zuu was the first monastery in mongolia. is this because there were other monasteries in inner mongolia before, or because there were other monasteries in outer mongolia before? discussion is at Talk: History of Tibet. Regards, Yaan (talk) 17:58, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Yaan! I have just adjusted the article on the History of Tibet and left a discussion on the Talk Page about the confusion. The earlier monastery was, of course, built by Altan Khan at his capital in what is now Hohhot, Inner Mongolia (which has now been absorbed by China). Since the state of modern Mongolia does not include this region it is technically correct to say that Erdene Zuu was the first monastery built in Mongolia - though, of course, the separation of Mongolia and Inner Mongolia is really a modern event. Anyway, if you have any further questions (or are not happy with the adjustments I have made to the History of Tibet article), please let me know. Best wishes, John Hill (talk) 23:02, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Age of minority/majority

On Category:Child rulers from Asia - d'oh! Thanks for picking up that slip!--Iacobus (talk) 05:18, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

No worries in the least - I make similar slips all the time. All best wishes, John Hill (talk) 05:29, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Peripeties

Dear John, thank you for your very kind words. Actually lately I was mostly adding to Turkology. From WordWeb [[6]]: "peripety, peripeties, peripetias, peripeteias" A sudden and unexpected change of fortune or reverse of circumstances (especially in a literary work). What they should also have said is that this change of fortune has negative connotations. If you suddenly won a lottery, it is not a peripety, but if you have won, and your ticket was stolen, then it is. Also, [[7]]. WordWeb suggests "surprise" as a synonym, but it does not have a right connotation, and I could not find a simpler word to properly phrase a sentence. Any improvement would be very welcome. Until end of May I am in Latin America, with somewhat problematic access sometimes. Be aware that your words are a great joy for me. --Barefact (talk) 06:09, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Norm! And thanks for your very kind words too! And also for "peripities" - a valid and interesting English word I had never come across before. It is always a treat to learn a new word but I think that, because it is so uncommon, it should really be replaced in the Wusun article as many readers will have difficulty understanding the passage.

The quote as it now stand is: "Their later fate is connected with the Turkic Kaganates and peripeties that fell on the Middle Asia and specifically Jeti-su area." May I suggest something like: "Their later fate is connected with the Turkic Kaganates and the sudden reversals of fortune that fell on Central Asia and, specifically, the Jeti-su area."? It is just a suggestion - I leave it up to you.

Have fun on your trip. I send you my very best wishes, John Hill (talk) 06:59, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I had exactly the same gut feeling that the phrase used an "uncommon" word, but could not find a good replacement. I vote for with both hands. Please revise, and if you couls just cursory attend to my suggestion to add some meat to Place of origin of the Yuezhi in Yuezhi - Talk:Yuezhi, I hope that even the narrative without a map would add to the contents of the article. Thank you again --Barefact (talk) 07:40, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Khotan

I figured out the Khotan issue. See here. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 07:50, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] It is a mistake

Dear Mr. Hill, I am so sorry, I concede for my mistake. My comment was about tocharians. Actually that statement was written by somebody else. The view I was talking about were these: "According to a controversial theory, early invasions by Turkic speakers may have pushed Tocharian speakers out of the Tarim Basin and into ancient Soghdian where they became assimilated in the population". This states implicitly imply Uyghur's Turkic ancestors expelled Tocharians.

Another point I want to argue was, Whatever the mixture, Uyghurs should be considered decendents of ancient original indo-europian inhabitants of Tarim Basin. Mixing with Turks and Mongolians would not make them irrelevant to their ancestors. We can find so many evidences(culturally , historicly and geniticly) that modern Uyghurs are related to original indo-europian inhabitants which includes tocharians. Unfortunately this whole "tocharian" article only mentions Uyghur once.

Once again , I am extremely sorry for the confusion. By the way, I learned a lot from your translation!!. Great work!! FACT NEEDED (talk) 04:21, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you so much for the clarification

Dear FACT NEEDED: Thank you so much for your apology - it is totally accepted. I know only too well from my own experience how easy it is to make such mistakes in the Wikipedia. As we say here in Australia, "no worries, mate!"

Also, thanks so much for you praise of my work - I am glad you found it useful - even though the early drafts available on the Silk Road Seattle site are now well out of date and contain (I am ashamed to say) a number of errors - some serious. Most of them I have now corrected - but I am still working on it constantly. I hope to make a much revised, corrected and updated version available later this year. However, in the meantime, if you have any queries, please do not hesitate to write to me. All best wishes, John Hill (talk) 04:33, 9 May 2008 (UTC) PS. I agree with you that modern Uighurs are almost certainly descended from a variety of early peoples including the early, basically Caucasoid, tribes of the region.

Dear Mr. Hill, Thanks for the understanding!. Your translation is a great accomplishment indeed!. All the best!! FACT NEEDED (talk) 04:56, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Homage

Great job on the "History of Tibet" now please lock it down....Ubuibiok (talk) 23:03, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tibet

Whats happened to this article?. The intro was appallingly short. No mention of the Dalai Lama?, Buddhism?, Lhasa? nothing. Many of the sections became short and snappy. It really was a shame. It just looked like somebody came along and just deleted entire chunks of text with paying any attention to copy editing it. We had gone from a very informative although too long history section to something which was barely of use. Sure the history article should contain the vast majority of the info but you still need a half decent history in the article rather than three lines. I restored it in part and seriously cut down the histiry section so it isn't barely a few lines or 30kb long either but is adequate and an outline that is very useful. I'll give it some more editing over the next few days. It still needs a huge amuont of work so that it is done properly and doesn't affect the quality of the article. I have tried to remove sections which are POV and to address neutrality but I care too much about it to find the version I found earlier as an acceptable improvement. I aopolgise if I have readded anything which shouldn't be there but I believe the article is a lot better than it was earlier. It is such an incredibly difficult article to control and write. I'll be keeing a very vclose wathc on this from now on as I won't see it eroded like that .It echoes what happened to the Che Guevara article which got the same treatment. But this of course happens when an article gets so much traffic and when it is over edited. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 18:09, 10 May 2008 (UTC) ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 18:04, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

John if I've cut anything out that you;ve worked on it wasn't intentional. I gave it a quick summarization but if I cut anything out you added that was important we should discuss how to intergrate it into the article again. Could you discuss with me some time how the article can progress from here? I only have the best possible intentions. Look forward to hearing from you ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 21:00, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tibet history edits

Hi Ernst! I am so sorry that I have upset you with my edits on Tibet. I knew this was going to be a most difficult (and controversial) job and that I had very limited time to do it in. I was so upset that having the two articles each with very large sections on Tibetan history was leading to contradictions, confusion and far too much duplication leading to an inability for readers to follow all the additions and POV aguments which were being added to each. It really was a confusing jumble and, I judged, made it impossible for ordinary readers to get any sort of coherent picture of Tibetan history. It seemed important to me to have the vast bulk of the historical discussions available in one place where the contradictions and unnecessarily long-winded duplications would become more immediately obvious and, therefore, more easily corrected.

One of the main problems has been that it all has taken much longer than I thought - so I hadn't got back to rewriting a much more concise history section before others started working on it.

When I first copied out the history section alone of the Tibet article it filled 15 full A4 pages in Word and was a tangled mess of some excellent material mixed up with numerous contradictions and repetitions and poorly referenced POVs. I tried unsuccessfully to straighten it out and then decided the only thing to do was to remove it entirely and try my best to merge it into the History of Tibet article before coming back to write an historical précis for the main Tibet page (something I never got back to do).

I am very sorry it has not worked out as well as I had hoped and now I have to ask others to help get both articles back up to speed again. I hope, though, that the exercise has not been totally in vain. It should, at least, be easier now to see what needs to be done. I hope so.

BTW I haven't (recently anyway) edited any other sections of the Tibet article - so I'm not responsible for the state of the Intro or other sections. I agree they need a lot more work. Apologies for all the hassles. Best wishes, John Hill (talk) 22:55, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Thanks for your work on the history section of Tibet article

You're very welcome John, but it seems that our edits, which made the introduction and history sections short/simplified, are not quite widely accepted.

- MainBody (talk) 08:29, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry if I seemed like i was complaining at yourself. Not at all but just a little shocked at how it had changed and this is clear in my immediate reaction above. I am the biggest fan of your work on central asian history and have the greatest of respect for you personally -you know this. Naturally the history section needed cutting down a great deal but I strongly felt the intro and history sections had been done a little too much. For me the history section should outline the history in a summary and cover the main points -this for me would be from gampo to present but summarizing the main events etc. Obviously any real detail should be in the seperate history articles (or which you;ve done a remarkabke job). I deeply apologise if you or MainBody feel I've discarded any efforts you have made to genuinely improve. If I have put anything back in problematic please please either of you discuss it so we can improve it. I;ve tried to do it in a way that it is still a interesting summary and read but isn't 30kb like it used to be. How are you mate anyway? Best wishes ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 09:34, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I absolutely agree with you. The most important thing is that the history section is completely balanced and it flows in an informative section which highlights the most important events in its history but isn't too long and POV. But without a doubt it needs a great deal of work as writing a summary of a huge history isn't an easy task to say the least. WHat I did is try to filter out what I didn't think was important for the main article and give it the bones to work around it and come up with the goods between us all. SOme of it may not be focused in places particularly modern history but it should all completely flow, be reliably referenced and neutrally balanced. What is very important however is that it has the ability to summarize the main points in its history which is very informative and develops an understanding but is done so in the most concise way possible.Best regards ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^{White Cat} 10:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Apologies Re. Tibet History

Dear MainBody and Blofeld of Spectre: Thank you both for your concern - not only for the articles but for me. I really must apologise to both of you for causing all this fuss and giving you both extra work and headaches. I have just written a letter on Blofeld of Spectre's Talk Page which gives my reasons for what I have done and thoughts about where we can go from here - so, to avoid having to repeat it all - I will just paste in the letter here:

Hi buddy! Good to hear from you - and sorry I have caused you all this angst! There is certainly no need for you to apologise! This whole fuss is really my fault. I was reading the Tibet article the other day and was horrified by the size of the section on Tibetan history and the jumble and confusion and POV in it. I thought that, especially with the focus on Tibet-China relations at the moment it was really urgent to get something more coherent and accurate together in one place. I thought I could do it in the few days left before my big trip - but probably overestimated my own capabilities and hadn't counted on the stream of unannounced visitors coming to wish us a good trip (and wanting to stay for a couple of hours drinking coffee and chatting).

I really did mean to get back to writing a shorter history on the Tibet page but I was too slow off the mark and I should have decorated the site with big Under Construction warning signs and also I should have realised you would have been right on the ball as usual and warned you personally.

Anyway, from this point on - I think it should be much easier to straighten everything out. The historical notes you have added to the Tibet article are a good start - and I am grateful you have restored some of the photos.

My only suggestions are that we should now try make it as brief and punchy as possible without losing the basic flow of the history. I, for example, would like to see a bit more on the ancient kings and the establishment of the Dharma and the early Empire while separating out some of less critical material in the more recent history.

I will try to do what I can while on this trip - but it may not be much, unfortunately - and now is when large numbers of people are likely to be checking the Wikipedia for information on Tibet. Also, of course, all the material in the History of Tibet article needs to be rechecked and tidied up. Sorry to leave you such a headache! I send you my apologies once again and all best wishes and thanks for your concern and hard work. John Hill (talk) 10:39, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

PS Do have a look at the long quote I have given in the History of Tibet article from the 821/2 Treaty between China and Tibet. If only something similar could be worked out again now!

PSS Thanks, Ernst for your welcome note above which you have just inserted before I managed to get this completed! You are just too quick for me! ;^)

Thanks again to both of you for your hard work and concern. I do think getting this right is really very important and there is a real urgency to getting it done now - I just wish I had more time and energy to work on it myself - so I am having to dump most of the responsibility on you and other well-intentioned people. Cheers, and best wishes with it all. John Hill (talk) 10:39, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Your're quite the gentleman John thanks. What I would propose that we do is plan it first between us either on the Tibet talk page or the WIkiProject talk page. Create a bullet pointed list of what major events should be included in the section and then attempt to write a punchy but very informative history summary around this ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 12:17, 11 May 2008 (UTC).

Good idea! I started trying to edit a bit tonight but had to give up a while ago. I think your idea is better. Perhaps if we all tried to do a bullet list and then compared them it would help. don't know when I am going to be able to do it - but will certainly try. If not, I should be at least able to make comments on others' bullet lists. I think the Tibet Talk Page might be an excellent forum which would also probably attract others into the project. Cheers and thanks, John Hill (talk) 12:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

The Bald One has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Cheers, and happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

It would be good if we could find a smiling buddha instead!!!! Tnanks -good work on the Tibet article too! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 11:34, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

If the Buddha doesn't bring a smile to yourface try reading the recently promoted Tibet during the Ming Dynasty. Our first WP:Tibet FA article! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 21:45, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dalai Lama and images

Palden Lhamo

17th century depiction of the Jokhang from the Potala

Your're in Hong Kong? Great. I absolutely loved Hong Kong. Didn't go across to Macau though. I bet your having a great time!! Are you using your laptop or the hotel computer??

This evening I worked a bit on the Dalai Lama article and expanded it a fair bit I'm sure you'll notice a considerable change from when you last looked at it. My only wish is that I had the books and resources you have as I would have a go at developing it to FA standard. I tried to incorporate some of your reference work as much as I could. If only I had the books. I also found several new images of the Palden Lhamo and a stunning 17th century depiction of Jokhang from the Potala. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 21:06, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Keep me posted on your trip!!! Having a good time? ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 12:00, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

John.. remember to post messages to User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE. The last five or so messages you sent were posted on my user page!!!! Best regards ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 09:39, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Sounds great, keep me posted... My grandmother will be 103 years old this year. My granddad was 93 I think. If he was around today he would have been 108 in September! My father will be 60 this year, he is the youngest in a family of 7, his oldest sister being about 84... ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 09:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History of Tibet Page

Bravo! I haven't been able to participate much this quarter, but I just wanted to say that it's already looking much better than it did in April. Thumbs up, and keep up the great work. Longchenpa (talk) 21:37, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes great work John. But on the main Tibet page I should try to condense it though as it is a bit too long at present. Its not easy summarizing an entire history is it!!! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 22:09, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Parenti

Hi, you recently added another comment on Parenti at the Tibet Talk page. While I won't judge on Parenti's overall reliability when it comes to Tibet (does he at least speak Tibetan?) I think your point re. Khubilai's Grand Lama is mistaken. Parenti is probably referring to Drogön Chögyal Phagpa and not confusing anyone at all, i.e. IMO there is nothing wrong with the passage you quoted. Regards, Yaan (talk) 11:21, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Dear Yaan. First of all, I think that Parenti's confusion of Kublai Khan and Altun Khan and being some 300 years out with his dates are pretty major errors for someone billed as an "historian" and must bring his other claims into doubt, especially as he continues to leave this faulty article freely available on the internet and I can't find any attempt by him to correct his gross errors of fact.

Moreover, his article, "Friendly Feudalism (updated and expanded version, January 2007)" (see [8]) is full of extremely emotive language and is a blatant attack on a religion, culture and social system he clearly knows little about.

He has also reportedly claimed that the First Dalai Lama was installed by "the Chinese army" - seemingly unable to distinguish between the Mongols and the Chinese. Finally, to answer your question about his knowledge of Tibetan, he apparently knows neither Tibetan nor Chinese. (See [9]). So, yes, I believe I am quite justified in considering him a misleading and unreliable "authority" on matters Tibetan. Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 15:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I think you are misunderstanding me (and Parenti). It is you who is reading a confusion into Parenti's statement ("In the thirteenth century, Emperor Kublai Khan created the first Grand Lama, who was to preside over all the other lamas as might a pope over his bishops.").

Your interpretation that Parenti is trying to refer to the Dalai Lamas is, IMO, not imperative at all, even if his implied connection between Phagspa (who, if I understand correctly, was indeed appointed by Khubilai to some kind of overseer over all Tibetan(?) Buddhist monks) and the much later Dalai Lamas that are mentioned in the next sentence is left completely unsubstanciated.

I was not trying to make Parenti a reliable source, I just wanted to point out that this little factoid about Khubilai Khan and Phagspa (not the Dalai Lamas!), the one you have been using to criticize Parenti, is actually one that is not wrong, or at least not in the way you are describing.

Of course the following sentences are full of confusions, between Chinese and Mongols, or between the fourth and the sixth Dalai Lama ("Several centuries later, the Emperor of China sent an army into Tibet to support the Grand Lama, an ambitious 25-year-old man, who then gave himself the title of Dalai (Ocean) Lama, ruler of all Tibet. ... The Dalai Lama who succeeded him [the 3rd DL, Yaan] pursued a sybaritic life, enjoying many mistresses, partying with friends, and acting in other ways deemed unfitting for an incarnate deity.").

But the one statement you picked seems actually pretty well in line with reality. Regards, Yaan (talk) 16:05, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi again. Please, I do not want to get into a long argument about this. The fact that Parenti has confused Kublai Khan with Altun Khan and is some 3 centuries out on his dating may have been due to a genuine (but rather gross) mistake - but why has he not corrected it? This article has been around for some time now - it was apparently revised in January 2007 and could easily be revised again. Furthermore, the rest of his article and his other writings on Tibet do little to inspire confidence in his knowledge of the subject nor his objectivity. So why waste more time discussing such an unreliable source? If you disagree - that is fine - but I will continue to point out that he is an unreliable source if his work keeps being used as a reference on Tibetan historical matters unless he begins to seriously examine things factually, in context, and without unnecessarily emotive language. Yours, John Hill (talk) 16:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Again, I don't think Parenti is confusing Khubilai and Altan Khan. I agree that the rest of his article gives enough reason to question Parenti's authority, though.

Parenti's claim is "In the thirteenth century, Emperor Kublai Khan created the first Grand Lama, who was to preside over all the other lamas as might a pope over his bishops.". What we read in books, and, in lack thereof, sites like http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/tibet.html is in the vein of "Also Kublai Khan made Buddhism state religion in Mongolia and made Chogyal Phagpa the first religious and secular leader over Tibet.". IMO opinion both of these statements are easily reconcilable. Not that Parenti does not say "In the thirteenth century, Emperor Kublai Khan created the first Dalai Lama, who was to preside over all the other lamas as might a pope over his bishops.", but "In the thirteenth century, Emperor Kublai Khan created the first Grand Lama, who was to preside over all the other lamas as might a pope over his bishops.", and this "Grand Lama" can very easily be interpreted to refer to Phagspa.

In fact, in the following sentence, Parenti says the first Dalai Lama was apppointed several centuries later, with support of some "Chinese Army" - no matter how wrong this second sentence is, it seems clear to me that Parenti does not not confuse Khubilai and Altan Khan (though he clearly does confuse Mongols and Chinese), and really means to refer to Khubilai when he does. Yaan (talk) 19:39, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Yaan! Well, I will concede that, perhaps, Parenti has not confused Kubali Khan and Altan Khan (although he doesn't make it very clear as he uses his own "title" of "Grand Lama". He may well have meant to refer to Chogyal Phagpa. However, I am glad to hear you agree that in the rest of the article Parenti "gives enough reason" to question his authority. I have just reread Parenti's article (hopefully for the last time) and noticed yet another clanger - not only does he say that: "Several centuries later, the Emperor of China sent an army into Tibet to support the Grand Lama," he then goes on to say that he was "an ambitious 25-year-old man, who then gave himself the title of Dalai (Ocean) Lama, ruler of all Tibet." This is the first time I have ever heard of Sonam Gyatso giving himself any title - usually it is said that Altan Khan gave it to him, although the current Dalai Lama and others believe that it simply derived from a translation of his name Sonam Gyatso, as Gyatso means "Ocean" in Tibetan. Anyhow, I would like to close this discussion - but also to thank you for your persistence which has led me to examing the whole period in more detail. All best wishes, John Hill (talk) 00:21, 4 June 2008 (UTC)