User talk:John/Archive 19

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[edit] Mushroom removed links

Hi - On Oct. 30th you removed a batch of hypertext links from Mushroom. What was the reason? Heliocybe 16:23, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

You're talking about this edit. I removed the extra links which (in my view) did not add anything to the article. Wikipedia is not a collection of external links, and it is better to bring in actual referenced content to the article (a good use of external links, so long as they are reliable sources) than to add many links to external websites. I hope that makes clear why I did what I did. If there is a specific link you feel I may have removed in error, you may discuss it at Talk:Mushroom and see if a consensus exists to restore the link. Best wishes, --John 16:28, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation and yes that was the edit. Some were useful, but it is not necessarily a battle I wish to do. However I can add the topic on as a discussion item. You may remove this chat topic from your log if you wish. Heliocybe 18:20, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flags

Just wanted to say that none of my comments are meant as an attack as I'm trying to understand the issue at hand. I read some of my comments again and they seem a bit abrasive but the intention was to raise concern over some issues and not to direct pointed remarks. Keep on putting up the good fight and I'll catch you in another article sometime. --I already forgot 20:06, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for your message. --John 21:05, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I apologise for the edits putting back the flag on the M16 article. Next time I should thoroughly read the discussion first. I was quickly making the edits without thinking it through. If this is the case for the M16 and AK-47 articles, all the others need the flag removed too. A user has put a flag on almost every firearm article, we will probably need a bot to remove them. Again, I'm very sorry. Hayden120 23:11, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah, no problem at all. The whole thing is really a storm in a teacup. Thank you for your co-operation in self-reverting. I appreciate it. As far as the removal of the rest of these flags goes, I would leave it another day or two, just in case anybody else wants to contribute to the discussion (it has only been going for just over 24 hours). Best wishes to you, --John 23:19, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rarelibra

Rarelibra sent me -quite- the e-mail:

If you keep on putting down slanderous lies and defamations about me on Wikipedia, you are going to find yourself rather quickly in a situation that you won't be able to handle, NASA boy. You seem smart - so figure out what the punishment is for libel and defamation of character - and exactly how much it will cost you. I'm not personally attacking you on every page, so you best keep your mouth closed and concentrate on something positive.

Keep on pushing me and see what happens. You think I don't know a few people in government, NASA boy? Keep it up and see how far down the rabbit hole really goes.

You've been warned.

This was sent by Rarelibra <rarelibra@yahoo.com> through Wikipedia e-mail at 11/01/2007 10:43 PM. I've posted it on the ANI as well. Now I have Fut. Perf. making suggestions that I be indefinitely banned from discussions on this region. I worked a lot to get neutral titles that weren't the same old titles that users from German Wikipedia or Italian Wikipedia pushed for. I come back on here after a break and the day I come in I see Rarelibra telling some new visitor that I'm an Italo-extremist. Of course I had a reaction. It is just really tiresome, these three users (Gryffindor, Rarelibra, and PhJ) who routinely come by to lambaste us. Anyway, I consider this e-mail he sent quite serious, and I hope someone can deal with it. I also wish someone could just mediate on the Province of Bolzano-Bozen page when people come in starting edit wars. Icsunonove 08:06, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can You Unblock?

Can you unblock 64.90.138.2 thats the school IP and thats my school and i can't edit or do anything really. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ripper man5 (talk • contribs) 13:37, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Click "show" to see my message.

[edit] Headsup

I'm starting to suspect that User:Williewikka is yet another Wikzilla sock, since its a new account and so far an SPA. He just hit the 3RR limit, with another revert on the Typhoon page. Thoughts? AKRadeckiSpeaketh 18:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. I spotted and warned him for a POINT violation. Let's wait and see. If he continues to revert a 3RR block would be in order obviously. Checkuser would be our next option, unless you feel it is so obvious a sock as not to require it. Even in that instance I would probably like to get other eyes on it, but that's just me. --John 18:20, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
The name seems to fit the pattern, (Wikzilla, Rangerwik, Wikanroll, Wikawuka), and he seems to like to make disruptive edits to specifically the F-22 and Typhoon pages. After further checking, Williewikka was created on October 1, one day after Wikawuka, and only made his first edit today. WZ bragged back when this trolling first began about having multiple sleeper accounts. I have absolutely no problem with a check user. It would be very helpful, actually, to run it on a couple other of WZ's socks, named and IP, to establish a consistent pattern. Do you know a checkuser admin? AKRadeckiSpeaketh 18:24, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
I believe our mutual friend User:Lar has this right. Was there a SP report on Wikzilla? We should probably do this by the book. --John 18:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
He made AIV and 3RR, but I don't think it was ever taken to SOCK. A detailed chronology can be seen here. I can cut and paste certain portions of the chronology (to make it more succinct), if you think a formal report should be pursued for the record. AKRadeckiSpeaketh 19:09, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. I have taken the liberty of starting it here. I can help you add evidence if need be. --John 19:27, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Roger that, I'll go add some in and let you know, and you can vet if necessary. AKRadeckiSpeaketh 19:44, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

(deindent) Ok, I've posted an evidence summary...looks like another admin has tagged Williewikka as a sock, so I've added him to the list. I'm going to be away from the keyboard for a couple of hours, feel free to leave me notes if anything needs to be fixed/changed. AKRadeckiSpeaketh 20:49, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Amy Winehouse

Hi John, sorry I know you're busy, but please can you advise, I'm not going to get into an edit war. re. these edits to the Amy Winehouse biography article. Apparently some people have dressed as Amy Winehouse for Halloween and this is notable enough to go on her biography page according to User:Vagary. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] Someone else has deleted it too (only to be put back again), so I'm not the only one that thinks it's kak, and now User:Vagary re-instated it (yet again) and this is despite the ongoing discussion on the article's talk page. I questioned it's newsworthiness, notability, whether it should be included on a WP:LIVING and I also said I thought it was questionable info and insulting and so I deleted it. Do you think it should be on a living biography article? If you think it's fine then I'll say no more. Sue Wallace 07:58, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Sue. I tend to agree with you and have posted on the article talk page. --John 18:51, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

He still hasn't taken it down though, but thanks for taking a look, I'll see if any of the others delete it again, other than that, I think I'll leave that article alone. Anyway, I thought I should let you know, I think I found an editor who I believe has/is creating half-believable(?) fake articles, I noticed after I deleted some fake info he put on the Death of Diana, Princess of Wales article, take a look at User:JTMEcrazy contributions, I don't know how to tag/deal with them. Am I right? Have a good one. :) Sue Wallace 10:25, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Guidance needed?

I see that from an old version of User:Perspicacite's talk page you gave some good advice previously: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Perspicacite&oldid=154362888#Edit_warring_on_Zimbabwe

I am pretty brand new here but I see that you are a very experienced and respected administrator, so I wonder if it would be more diplomatic if you pointed out that this reversion by User:Perspicacite to an old version of the article he had edited

  1. lost a picture
  2. lost conversion templates
  3. changed (without consensus or discussion) to spellings and date formats to those prevalent in the USA, whereas Tokelau is a non self-governing colonial territory of the Commonwealth country of New Zealand and, therefore, the article has a strong connection to an WP:ENGVAR in addition to non US-English being the current variant.

If you're too busy I will understand, of course, and thanks in advacne for any assistance you can offer. Alice.S 10:18, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Alice. I have replied on your talk page. --John 18:52, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your prompt response, John.

I will try and formulate a response and post it on my own user page shortly. Alice.S 01:57, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Alice.S has now followed me onto at least two other pages, stalking me after I went back and reverted the 4 regional spelling changes I made to the article. Perspicacite 05:50, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I just posted at here, asking you both to calm down a bit. Stalking, sock-puppetry etc are serious charges to be throwing around. There seems no reason for anyone to be blocked over this, but you were wrong on the spelling issue and you shouldn't read too much into someone else correcting you. I know it can hurt sometimes to be corrected, but that humility and ability to accept correction is part of what is needed to edit a major wiki such as this. Please don't take things so personally; I am sure you are both just trying to improve the encyclopedia. Go and edit some unrelated articles for a while or have a cup of tea or something. That's what I would do. Good luck. --John 05:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Are you kidding me? She said she would stop following me onto other pages if I agreed to not edit Tokelau. Sorry, no, calling her out on that is not uncivil. This[9] is practically an admission of wrongdoing. Considering the amount of incivility I have gotten from her I'm pretty surprised we're even having this conversation. Perspicacite 07:41, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

The last comment to Petri was ill-advised. I concede that. Perspicacite 07:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XVIII - November 2007

The November 2007 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot -- 15:33, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hi John

Hi. I was just looking through your contributions, as I happened to see a comment you made at WP:AN/I, and I couldn't help notice the amount of work you do around here in various different areas, including article building, alot of vandal fighting, wikignoming and in various admin areas which are all beneficial to the encyclopedia. I am quite impressed for this reason I would like to present to you:

Im quite surprised that you haven't received this already. Happy editing. Tbo 157(talk) 16:55, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much! --John 17:07, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
No worries :). Tbo 157(talk) 17:13, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arbcom

I thought the witch hunt was over but obviously not.

1. I have never sent you an anonymous email let alone undertake a "campaign of anonymous emails". Everytime I have had to say something to say to you I have let you know and dont need to hide behind skirts.

2. I have issues with Rock, he has issues with me. He tried his hardest to get me banned, it didnt succeed - for these reasons I do not want to interact with him I consider his motive when dealing with be malicious and trying to provoke me. I have asked him at least 10 times not to post on my talk page but he continues to do so. If he wants the Arbcom to fail he is going about it the right way.

3. Your examples of "bad faith" are bad faith assupmtions in themselves! 4. Your example of "POV" pushing on Northern Ireland topics shows either niavity or ignorance of boxing - possibly understandable.

4. I didnt know that a set of probation criteria had been agreed - believe that or not - I dont really care but its the truth.

Nice of you to chip in though - especially after the Arbcom is not - you are not stupid are ya! ;) --Vintagekits 19:32, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the reply. As I said, I now think it is not productive for us to deal directly with each other. I am sorry it has come to this. --John 19:42, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
It doesnt bother me at all - infact I prefer it that way also - however, you are smearing and spreading lies about me on Rocks page - I would appriciate if you stopped that. Its nnot helpful or productive. I have been a good wee bhoy since getting unblocked, there wasnt a problem until Rock began posting on my talkpage - he came looking for problems and doesnt like it when he finds one. Anyway I digress - you have a job to get on with.--Vintagekits 22:21, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Vintagekits, I would note that the only reason I would prefer not to interact with you personally is that you have a habit of being abusive and of making unsubstantiated accusations against me. I note that even in this last post you are continuing by accusing me of "smearing and spreading lies". If you were ever genuinely to become capable of civil debate you would be welcome here. Until then, --John 23:23, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mick Jones

How do you mean? And what have i exactly done wrong?I can even source it if you want.Zivb2007

It needs sourced at a minimum. We would also need a consensus that the info was important enough to include. --John 20:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Adminship

Thanks for your message and your support. I am still interested in serving as an admin but I will be quite busy for the next week so is it ok if I can message you when I am ready. In the mean time, I would like to thank you very much for your coaching. Can I also ask if User:Lar is happy with me going for an RfA soon as I wouldn't want to go for one until both my admin coaches feel that I am ready. Thanks. Tbo 157(talk) 21:43, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I forgot to leave you with this:

The mop and bucket manual
Thank you for the admin coaching. The coaching was of great quality and really did make me think about Wikipedia and it has been a very good learning process. Tbo 157(talk) 16:52, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

As I have mentioned to User:Lar, I will contact you and User:Lar when I am ready. Thanks again and happy editing. :) Tbo 157(talk) 16:52, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Probably about time I read this... --John 17:10, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another sock?

I gotta run, but you might want to watch User:Wikalliz. Similar name, one suspicious edit here and, curiously, both on their talk and user page, plus almost all the user summaries, "grammar" is mispelled "grammer"...odd mistake for someone trying to clean things up. AKRadeckiSpeaketh 01:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hello again!

Nice to see you back! (Poor old Rockpocket took most of the flak while you were away.)

John, I'd like to start by saying that I think that you're one of the best Admins that I've come across. That said, however... I have my concerns over your block of LiberalViews. Looking at his contributions, he seems to have produced some 200 edits over his Wiki career, albeit that he's been contributing for a year. The edit history doesn't show any naughtiness. The problems seem to have begun on the Irish Famine talk page, although those are still (largely) civil edits, and escalated/ degenerated to the Sir Fozzie attack. Within 24 hours, in rapid succession, he got a warning, last warning, Arb Com probation, and (finally) block; this on an editor who has no previous history of misbehaviour and who was clearly frustrated at the situation on the Irish articles that he had inadvertently blundered into.

I think it's always a shame to lose editors, and I'd be concerned that (what seems to have been) frustration on his side has blown up into being tagged as a disruptive editor. Please can I ask you to at least reconsider the block, perhaps reduce it to time served, and I'll also leave a message on his Talk page to try and explain and damp down the situation, and, with luck, that'll be it. If it works, so much the better; if it doesn't, I'll be the first to agree that a block is warranted.--Major Bonkers (talk) 09:50, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

No offence, but what are you talking about? He was already warned about his conduct by ArbCom member Mackensen for this edit (a "(largely) civil edit" in your opinion), and it got worse from there. Firstly there was the removal of reliably sourced content claiming "propaganda", adding POV/weaselry (source says nothing of the sort). Then related to that there's claiming sources were used falsely, further similar accusations and trolling, trolling including inflammatory edit summary, more trolling, soapboxing, personal attacks and trolling, and repeated trolling on the WikiProject talk page. Just in case you aren't aware, IED refers to improvised explosive device, and apparently WikiProject members would send them to his house?!! There's three diffs after that as well, but I'm sure you've seen them already?
What "situation on the Irish articles"? He didn't like what the sources said so he did the following
  • Remove reliably sourced information claiming it wasn't in the source provided (which it was) saying "I was removing a false claim about a source" and "Show us where in the sources it says he "was beaten by british soldiers and required 47 stitches". It says no such thing and you know it". Check the reference as others have done, it's there in black and white.
  • Amend a sentence to include that an informer "allegedly" confessed, when the source says no such thing. In fact the source goes into detail about the whole situation, there is no "allegedly" about it.
The "situation on the Irish articles" is caused (in part) when editors ignore what sources say and decide to add their own opinion of events, and if you think that's acceptable I invite you to fully study the ArbCom in question as you'll find it isn't. The ArbCom has hopefully drawn a line under such antics and said they are no longer acceptable. If people wish to edit in such a manner, then they are responsible for any results. One Night In Hackney303 14:03, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your messages. The 24-hour block was well-earned. That is what happens if you continue to edit abusively after a warning. I will be happy to issue a longer block if the situation is repeated, which I trust it will not be. ONiH, I agree with you and I hope your optimism about the ArbCom decision is well-placed. --John 15:25, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough, John; thank you for at least reading what I wrote and giving it some consideration. I don't hold any particular candle for LiberalViews, but, having come across the situation from Rockpocket's Talk page, it seemed to have escalated very rapidly and been borne largely out of frustration (and, God knows, we all find the situation frustrating). I'm not sure that there's much point going further and answering One Night In Hackney fully: yes, I have gone through LiberalViews' edits and the responses to them, so - thank you for your consideration - I do know what I'm talking about (and I don't think that the sarcastic posting of an Irish Republican Wikiproject template on that editor's Talk page was intended to help very much). Thank you also for your invitation 'to fully study' the ArbCom decision, but I have already done so. --Major Bonkers (talk) 16:44, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
So if you'd looked through his edits, why are you trying to portray him as some innocent victim who should be unblocked? Just like you always seem to do when anyone involved in this saga who isn't an alleged Irish republican gets blocked. What's the "situation" with the Martin Meehan article? If you've looked, you should be able to tell me right? As for your attempt to score points over grammar, the English language is fluid and has evolved since you were at school tossing anti-semetic and racist slurs round like confetti. One Night In Hackney303 18:10, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd be extremely grateful if you would try and remain civil with me. I'd encourage you to read carefully what I actually wrote so that you do not accidentally misrepresent me; thus:

  • [...] the Irish Famine talk page, although those are still (largely) civil edits [...] does not equal a specific example being a "(largely) civil edit" in your opinion [...]

I am not trying to portray anyone as anything they are not: LiberalViews' record speaks for itself, and can be just as easily be looked up by John as by you or me. Similarly, there is no hidden agenda on my part to do down some editors and promote others. You will be aware that I previously made (equally unproductive) representations on behalf of Gaimhreadhan when he was blocked, and yet I also awarded a barnstar to SirFozzie. And you've also spelled 'anti-semitic' wrongly.--Major Bonkers (talk) 19:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] States Reorganization Commission

John/Alan, I'm trying to AFD the States Reorganization Commission article after my PROD was removed. However, following the instrustions on the AFD template is proving to be a mess. Can you help me sort this out? If you think an AFD is not appropriate here, go ahead and do what you think is best. Thanks. (Also posted on User talk:Akradecki - BillCJ 20:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I've done that. Full instructions are at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, but it is a rather complicated process. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/States Reorganisation Commission. Best wishes, --John 22:13, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you for your support.

Especially for your comments about me being cool in a crisis. It was harder than it looked, *not* because of the initial content, but because the block evasion was bugging me so much. A sign of a born admin? ;-)

Guy Fawkes Remember, remember, the fifth of November?
Thank you to everyone who participated in my Request for adminship, which was successful at 50/5/0 on November 5th, 2007.
It became, as you may know, rather contentious toward the end (though fortunately no gunpowder was involved), and I appreciate the work of other Wikipedians to keep it focused. --Thespian 03:19, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Firearms

Welcome to the WikiProject Firearms. I hope you enjoy being a member.--LWF 05:28, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome. I hope I can be some help to you. --John 05:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Query about removal of The Smiths album cover images

I was just wondering why they were removed, given that there is nothing to state they didn't meet fair use requirements on the image pages. I didn't upload them, I'm just curious. SteveRamone 20:21, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I notice that they don't actually have a fair use justification from the uploader, but they still seem to meet the fair use requirements. SteveRamone 20:24, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi Steve and thanks for your question. Album cover images are only normally fair use in the artcle on the album, and not in any other. --John 21:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

Stop vandalising my work please these were legit edits! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Princess Pea Face (talk • contribs) 18:42, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I dont want to be in a bad position I just want to show the other side. I dont want to offend. Princess Pea Face 23:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Accounts set up for vandalism attacks

See: NoPeDa‎ at [10]. FWIW Bzuk 04:23, 8 November 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Sorry

My Freind josh did not listen feel free to block the schools ip sorry :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ripper man5 (talk • contribs) 14:47, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandals

Hi John, these two anons seem to be in cahoots with each other [11] and [12], I have added warning messages. Sue Wallace 17:33, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, let me know if they continue. --John 18:40, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
LOL they always seem to stop after I tell you! Sue Wallace 01:26, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Still counts as a good result. It is very heartening when one gives a warning and it is heeded. Wish it happened more often! --John 01:30, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Block review

John, would you care to review my actions? This is the first time I've dealt with legal threats. They were made by User:Femalepilot here. Brief background: "Bambi bucket" is both an industry generic term and a trademark. She was offended that the article on Bambi bucket also discussed other brands. Her comment is a bit amateurish, as she seems to be under the strange notion that copyright law forbids such comparisons. It doesn't. Be that as it may, I warned her about legal threats here, to which she replied here, in a tone and manner that I'm taking to be a continuation of her legal threats. I don't mind a bit of harshness in tone, but when you make legal threats followed by blunt ordering me what I will and will not include, that's over the line. As it is continuation of behavior after a warning, I've blocked for 48 hours. I could use fresh eyes to make sure I'm not over reacting. Thanks! AKRadeckiSpeaketh 04:18, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Alan, I've commented at the user's talk page. This should provide a resolution. --John 06:18, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

I just wanted to drop a note of thanks for your supportive comments over the last week. I think it became clear that this was not going to get sorted out on-wiki and so over the last few days there has been some discussion by email. I now feel assured that Vk's edits are being monitored by third parties and he will not be permitted to return to being a disruptive influence. I am thus happy to step back completely and watch from a distance. Similar, I expect, to what you have been doing over the last few months. As always, if there is something I can assist you with, do let me know. Rockpocket 18:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the message. Sometimes these things are just more stress than they are worth. Partly as a result of my recent interaction at User talk:Giano II, I now intend to refer any and every case related to Vk that may arise in the future to one of the "uninvolved admins" and let them deal with it. I have far better things to occupy myself with here. I am very glad that you now feel things are on a better footing, and, as always, I wish you the best. --John 19:08, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LiberalViews

Can you take a look at Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/MarkThomas please John? The attacks from LiberalViews are continuing. Thanks. One Night In Hackney303 18:55, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I was just looking at it. I don't intend to get involved again in this poisonous area as the stress involved enormously outweighs any productive differences I can feasibly make. I suggest taking it up with one of the self-styled "uninvolved admins" who are perceived (at least by themselves) as monitoring the situation currently. See also Rockpocket's post above and my imminently forthcoming reply. Best wishes to you, --John 19:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't suggesting you handle the case. I was just wondering if those latest comments required any further action, coming so soon after you blocked him. Obviously they don't. Thanks. One Night In Hackney303 19:07, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I am truly sorry I cannot be of more help to you. I suggest raising it with User:Giano II; maybe he will have a view on this as he is apparently monitoring this 'truce'. Good luck, --John 19:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I was looking at that this morning, too. Its pretty damning, ONiH. I was going to act myself, but thought better of it. I think a note at ANI could resolve this pretty quickly. Rockpocket 19:11, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Email

Hi John. Just a note that I have replied to your previous email. Thanks. Tbo 157(talk) 20:50, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that. --John 20:56, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply and apologies once again for the inconvenience. Ill be less busy during the next week so Ill be able to apply for adminship. If you still don't mind, could you nominate me when you have the time. Im not in any rush so I don't really mind about when its done. Thanks.Tbo 157(talk) 21:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
This is not something that needs to be rushed, so do not worry on that score would be my view. I'll be happy to conominate, or speak in support in an early comment, as you like, just let me know, you guys... ++Lar: t/c 14:00, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
As I said above, I agree with Lar's view that there is no rush. I don't really mind how its done or when its done. Ill leave that up to both of you since you both seem to be fairly experienced with these things. Thanks. Tbo 157(talk) 17:10, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

John and I need to draw straws on who starts writing this up first and who does the conom. Or, if you want, you can self nom, and we could both conom. As you like... no hurry but ALSO I tend to let stuff slide if I don't get reminded periodically :) I'd say start writing up your answers to the standard questions while you wait for us to get off our butts and write something coordinate this massively complex endeavour, so you can just paste them in. ++Lar: t/c 09:13, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Good point. I am likely to be relatively busy in the next while, but have some ideas. There's no harm one of us starting it and working on it over time, is there? Or would it be better in userspace? --John 09:16, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the update and advice. I don't think theres any harm if there is a delay between starting the RfA page and transcluding it into WP:RfA. I have seen this on previous occassions. As I said before, I don't mind how its done. I don't mind self nomming or if you nominate me as I don't think it particularly makes a difference who does the nomming, although too many conoms do tend to annoy some users. Thanks. Tbo 157(talk) 11:11, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Let's just create it the normal way in the normal place and start working on it. Whoever creates it gets to be the first conom I guess :) There's an incentive for all of us. :) ++Lar: t/c —Preceding comment was added at 20:09, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good. Tbo 157(talk) 16:36, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

And so it has been created; per above since I got to it first, I got to pontificate first too. John will just have to settle for second. I warrant he won't be able to come up with as many clever footnotes as I did though, just you wait and see. ++Lar: t/c 22:51, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Hah. I knew if I stalled for long enough you would do the job for me! Now to correct all your typos... --John 22:53, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Wow, lovely job! Love the footnotes... --John 22:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Just a note that I have added some answers for the questions as suggested by User:Lar. I will sign my acceptance when you have finished your statement and I am happy with my answers. Thanks. Tbo 157(talk) 17:54, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I was just reading your answers. It looks good. I should be able to finish my statement before the weekend is out, maybe even later today. I will be relativley busy for the next week and my wiki-time is likely to be quite restricted. ---- John (talk) 17:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. Tbo 157(talk) 18:03, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Typos! That's harsh. They are not typos, they are deliberately introduced works of linguistic art. Philistine! ++Lar: t/c 00:37, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

No, I regretted saying that even in jest when I saw the time and care you had put into crafting the nom. Great job. --John (talk) 00:50, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Ye, great job. Can you drop me a note when both of your conom statements are done as Im pretty much happy with my answers. Thanks. Tbo 157(talk) 10:36, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I am done. Can't improve on perfection, after all ;-) ++Lar: t/c 02:38, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
I think I am too. --John (talk) 03:04, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Once again, thanks for setting up the page and for your conom. Just dropping a note that I've gone live now. Thanks. Tbo 157(talk) 11:40, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I do not understand why you are following me arround on Wikipedia

I checked your user page ...you sound like a nice enough person...I just don't get it. On the Jimmy Carter issue -- there is no question he toppled the Shah of Iran, and supported the rise of Khomeini ...only to bite him in the ass. There are so many references its unbelievable ...but check out Ambassador Sullivan's book, General Huyzer's book, Al Haig's book, ...I mean I could go on and on. Can you please get off my case? Or at least get to know me or my point of view. At some point the reality of the situation with Iran needs to be made public ...which is what wikipedia is all about. As for the page with my name on it ...its my children's idea ... I do not mind working with them...you after all have a user page ...so don't slap my wrist please! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.251.0.84 (talk) 22:11, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

The main problem with what you are adding is it fails WP:BLP. I hope you understand that continually adding this material is liable to get you blocked. If you are able to cite a source and word it in a NPOV way, we could maybe do something. In the first instance we need to discuss at Talk:Jimmy Carter. Best wishes, --John 23:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Galloway Article

You asked what I was trying to do in changes to the Galloway article. Simple, I was trying to adjust the size of one of the graphics that was too tall and was overwriting the article. While I can control the size, I haven't mastered the art of placement totall. Thanks for noticing. Interesting and highly controversial chap that Galloway, expecially from over here in the States! Most Americans have never heard of him. SimonATL 01:09, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Becoming a wikipedia admin

I've been contributing to wikipedia for several years and have generally quite good English writing skills. What does it take to become and editor and why would anyone be interested in the additional work load it would entail and how did you, yourself, become an editor? You'll note that I've written extensively in Wikipedia and started a number of new articles on previously little-known individuals, William R. Rathvon and Leonard J. Fick come to mind. Thanks! SimonATL 01:16, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Wikzilla

Hi John. All but two of your list SSPs at Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Wikzilla have been blocked indefinitely as indicated under the conclusion heading in that SSP report. Do you have more evidence for those two IP or should I just close that report. -- Jreferee t/c 22:55, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, no I think that should be fine. It might be worth asking Akradecki; I'll do that myself. --John 01:29, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
It's fine to close it, though I'm sure the socks will continue to appear (hmmm...evidence for that strange, legendary phenomenon of spontaneous knitting??). The point was to have something on file for future use. As for the IPs, since it's fairly random IP hopping, indeffing them really doesn't help at all. AKRadeckiSpeaketh 03:17, 9 November 2007 (UTC).

Look at: 71.247.233.136, NoPeDa [13] and another sock 71.62.216.87 who surfaced today and vandalized my talk page three times in succession: [14] and then vandalized User talk:Gscshoyru who attempted to intercede. FWIW, a caution has been issued on the user's talk page (User talk:71.62.216.87). FWIW Bzuk 17:05, 10 November 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Re Robert Louis Stevenson

Try to tell a Scot that there's no Scottish nationality! As I said in the edit summary, the lead begins "Robert Louis (Balfour) Stevenson (November 13, 1850 – December 3, 1894), was a Scottish novelist, poet, and travel writer …," and it will look inconsistent to the casual reader if the infobox says otherwise. I would be perfectly happy for the nationality field in the infobox to be left blank, though. Deor 02:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

It's a deal! --John 02:51, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] The Stranglers

Hi - I made some amendments to the Stranglers main page on Wiki but they have been reversed (?) by you ? Can you tell me why please.

Thanks. Calvin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.195.61 (talk) 19:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Your edits seemed to consist of moving a few paragraphs around, adding a (doubtful) genre, and adding an "In Popular Culture" section. None of these seemed to improve the article, so I reverted the changes out. No hard feelings. What were you trying to do? --John 20:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I was doing just that - there is now notable key events in the Stranglers history since Hugh left and these needed to be highlighted aside from all the, less important, "Stranglers song used in" type additions (which are quite frankly not very interesting). The Mk II to Mk IV reference is used by the fan community to determine the line up and is hot discussion point amongst fans (not on Wiki of course). If there's something you'd like me to change then please let me know. Its just the "Post Cornwell" para. had become a dustbin of throwaway comments and I do not agree that the 16 important years since that date (which equal the 16 years Hugh was with the band) coudl be brushed aside. The roundhouse concert is a very notable event in the bands history. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seeourbee (talk • contribs) 20:24, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Need some input

John, I need some outside help. There are three articles Air Methods, ATG Javelin and Adam Aircraft involved, and one other user, User:Watkinsian. The issue is that the references all list these companies addresses as being located in Englewood, Colorado. They are physically outside the city limits, in unincorporated land at Centennial airport. Bill asked me to get involved because this user has decided that since the city limits of Centennial CO are closer, he was going to change the information in the articles. He has no references, other than a map and his opinion. Actual references, such as the companies' web sites and at this Denver Business Journal article, clearly indicate Englewood. Bill felt like this was OR on his part, since what we're supposed to be reporting is what the refs report, not what we garner by research a map ourselves, and I tend to agree. I've notified this user multiple times, reverted each of the articles twice, and don't want to run afoul of 3RR, since this isn't clear vandalism. He's insisting on his way, and has reverted yet again. Would you care to lend a hand? Thanks! AKRadeckiSpeaketh 02:24, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

With pleasure! I was following it on your talk page and had already considered offering you a hand. --John 02:26, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe Wikipedia should present information as accurately as possible without misleading and without perpetuating misconceptions. This is why I have been making the edits referred to above. In my mind, it is simply blatantly misleading for an article to say that a company is "IN" a certain city, when it is actually many miles outside of it.

Air Methods' address is 7301 South Peoria Street. Enter this address at the US Postal Service's ZIP code finder at http://zip4.usps.com/zip4/zcl_0_results.jsp, along with the city "Centennial" and the state "CO", and the following postally-standardized address is returned:

7301 S PEORIA ST

CENTENNIAL CO 80112-4133

The official map of the City of Englewood can be downloaded at the city's website at http://www.englewoodgov.org/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=651. Nowhere on this map will you find a Peoria Street.

The official map of the City of Centennial can be downloaded at the city's website at http://www.centennialcolorado.com/DocumentView.asp?DID=366 The City of Englewood lies northwest of Centennial. Peoria Street is in the central portion of Centennial, some eight miles east of Englewood.

So, according to the Denver Business Journal, Air Methods is "in Englewood". But DBJ is only reflecting the company's choice to use that city in its mailing address. It may be a reference, but how good of a reference is it if it is simply regurgitating information, information that is misleading? Looking at Englewood's official city map, one can see for a fact that Air Methods is not "in Englewood".

Is the Denver Business Journal a more reliable reference than the database of the United States Postal Service? Is the Denver Business Journal a more reliable reference than maps provided on official city websites?

Based on the evidence presented here, it seems to me that a fair course of action would be to indicate the location as accurately as possible, while noting that the location is often stated differently.

- Watkinsian 07:27, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

John, may I chime in here (and many thanks for the help last night). If you look up the SEC filings for the corporations involved, they are officially listed as "Englewood". Since all 3 are FAA regulated companies, if you check out the official addresses, such as the air carrier certificate for Air Methods, since it's technically an airline, the official address is "Englewood". For Adam Aircraft, their primary product is the A500, and if you look up the Type Certificate Data Sheet, which is the official document that defines the aircraft, you'll see at the very top that the company that builds the plane is listed in Englewood. I could go on and on. It sounds to me that you have some sort of an axe to grind, although for the life of me I can't imagine what it would be. In official documentation, in published sources, it is clear that "officially" these companies are considered to be in Englewood, even though they are in an unincorporated area of the county. AKRadeckiSpeaketh 14:44, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Akradecki, the filings and documents you mention are all basing the locations on the postal designation of "Englewood" - i.e., because the addresses are in the ZIP code 80112, they are assigned the place name of "Englewood". As I've tried to explain in other postings, postal designations - place names assigned by the US Postal Service - don't always coincide with official city boundaries. When they don't, it is our job as editors to provide clarifying information, lest readers are led to make false assumptions. Watkinsian 16:36, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

John, Watkinsian has now exceeded 3RR on the various articles, and has continued his edit war, so I've blocked for 24 hours. And, Watkinsian, it's not our job to do that. It's our job to report what other sources are reporting, and you can't get more official that the refs I've given you. AKRadeckiSpeaketh 18:17, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Craig Charles

Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Nam3witha3init tells you all you need to know about that account, as does the history of the page. It's pretty much indefinitely semi-protected due to a long term Australian vandal making edits like the one you've seen since July 2006, using 58.84 prefixed IPs or 129.96 prefixed IPs registered to Flinders University. One Night In Hackney303 02:26, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I thought it smelled fishy. --John 02:33, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
No problem. With that editor there's little point bothering with warnings, it's generally block on sight. One Night In Hackney303 14:46, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stephen Lawrence

Hello there :) I thought I should let you know a BOT removed offensive racist vandalism on the Stephen Lawrence article by User talk:GivemeZimbabwe, and I noticed that the user had removed the bot's warning from his talk page and added an offensive racist comment in it's place, I added another warning, but should he be given an extra warning? Sue Wallace 13:54, 15 November 2007 (UTC) Nice one! Sue Wallace 20:43, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:PortugalAF2.png listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:PortugalAF2.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. OsamaK 19:42, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gangs in England

Thanks for above, good call! I have something else a bit more complicated, there seems to be a variety of problems with this article Gangs in England. I've tried tidying it up ie removing libelous uncited info etc, but first of all, it seems to attract some editors who just want to add and 'big up' their own gangs' info, also some are going into minute details of one particular case (esp. Liverpool) also the article itself, does it need defining? Is it about juvenile 'street gangs' or is it about highly organised underworld gangs? Should it go into detailed analysis of individual cases or just a general 'overview'? Also some guy seems to be getting a little bit irate with me because I keep trying to tidy his edits up. Respect your opinion and experience in this. Sue Wallace 20:43, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Gosh, it is a mess, isn't it? Let me have a proper look and get back to you. --John 20:45, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, I'd really appreciate any direction/advice you can give. I guess this is one of those articles that is going to attract a particular editor type. I think the 'Liverpool guy' means well, I also think he is unaware of the show preview button! ;) Sue Wallace 21:04, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
It certainly needs a good pruning. I would support the removal of all unreferenced info as a first step, even if that meant not much was left. You have done the right thing by raising it in talk. Let's see what happens next. --John 21:06, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Uploading album cover art

I'm confused re uploading CD coverart. For example it says you upload an info box for the Stranglers album Suite XVI, including the cover art. I've read and tried to understand the rules for this sort of thing but they are so extremely difficult to read and badly worded that I can not understand them. Where did you get you art work from, as I assuming it meets the criteria. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seeourbee (talk • contribs) 11:36, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RfA

I considered not spamming talk pages but not saying "thanks" just isn't me. The support was remarkable and appreciated. I only hope that I am able to help a little on here. Please let me know if I can help you or equally if you find any of my actions questionable. Thanks & regards --Herby talk thyme 12:50, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Philippine Airlines Flight 137

Hi John, Regarding the article about Philippine Airlines Flight 137, the article's description of the accident clearly disagrees with the official report and with all sources I've found on the internet about this subject. I've posted a comment in the article's talk page a few months ago, but nothing was done about it. What should be done now?

Thanks, Nelievsky —Preceding comment was added at 16:29, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I've added the info from the report. ---- John (talk) 17:02, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gangs of United Kingdom

Hi John, yes it's Gangs in the United Kingdom now! And it has grown ever larger! I asked on the talk page if it should be broken up into areas like Gangs of Liverpool, Gangs of Scotland (see one for you as well ;) etc etc. because this article is so big now and will get even bigger with the rest of the UK added, Liverpool section is already more than large enough for its own article I think (and Manchester too). What do you think? I said I'd go ask an Admin. !! LOL Sue Wallace (talk) 02:02, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

You know, it strikes me there is quite a good article in there waiting to spring out. Once the article is tidied up and trimmed a little it could be a beauty. Splitting it up; I'm not sure it needs that. If the unreferenced material is taken out and the article copyedited properly it will look better and certainly shorter. I'll continue to monitor it. --John (talk) 02:31, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Replaceable fair use Image:PaulGambaccini1977.jpg

Replaceable fair use

Thanks for uploading Image:PaulGambaccini1977.jpg. I noticed the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

  1. Go to the image description page and edit it to add {{di-replaceable fair use disputed}}, without deleting the original Replaceable fair use template.
  2. On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace the fair use image by finding a freely licensed image of its subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or a similar) image under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, fair use images which could be replaced by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if not used in an article), per our Fair Use policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. High on a tree (talk) 22:48, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] It's happening on United Kingdom again.

I'm certainly not going to revert the most recent one. But I'm hoping that the consensus we worked for last time won't end up being ignored. The reference Padraig added was fine, and I left it, but he also removed the flag in the same edit. Now Sony-youth has reverted my edit.

I'm not going to let myself be dragged into anything. Your assistance is, again, highly appreciated. Biofoundationsoflanguage (talk) 18:20, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Biofoundatonsoflanguage, so you have no problem with the reference I provided, yet using that same reference dismisses your attempt to use the Ulster Banner to represent Northern Ireland, therefore it was removed. Not sure what consensus your refering to as none was ever agreed to, nor can consensus be reached to include info that fails WP:RS. So unless you can provide a reliable source the banner can't be used in that context and as the reference I provided is the official British Government position on the use of National and Sub-national flags used within the UK, I doubt if you will find such a source, seeing as astrotrain failed to do so in the mediation on the issue.--Padraig (talk) 18:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Sorry I didn't get back to you. I am rather busy just now in real life. I suggest raising it at WP:AN/I if it becomes an ongoing problem. Sorry I can't be more help at the moment. --John (talk) 06:05, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User:Farlack913

Please have a look at User talk:Farlack913. This user has added an inappropriate title (badly spelt) to his talk page. His edits today are of a dubious nature. Can you please review. --Stewart (talk) 19:21, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I left a message on the user's talk page. I'm not qualified to say if their edits were 'dubious'. Let me know if there are any more problems. --John (talk) 06:58, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fake site

Also please have a look at User talk:Stefanomanceralli found on [15]. I find it difficult to believe that Stefano would spell his own name incorrectly. FWIW, it seems to be another tedious sockpuppet of Wikzilla. Bzuk (talk) 19:08, 22 November 2007 (UTC).

Blocked, along with User:SteveMancarelli. 'Tis the season. AKRadeckiSpeaketh 21:30, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Alan for doing that. My time on-Wiki has been severely constrained recently. --John (talk) 22:33, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
NP. I'm actually hiding out from the in-laws upstairs at the moment.... AKRadeckiSpeaketh 22:36, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for making me laugh. I am in a very similar situation. --John (talk) 22:51, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sending out the Bat signal again

John, can you look at the following [16] wherein a new editor is challenging an experienced editor over an AfD request. The article in question may actually be noteworthy but the sharp dialogue that was engendered by the same editor earlier in the Talk:Neta Snook article and later on talk pages, sent up some "red flags." BTW, the article in question is actually a candidate for AfD because it appears to be a copy from a website.

I did have an occasion to question the newbie editor's judgment on an issue of pushing a Christian agenda/focus into an article on Amelia Earhart's flight instructor. His switching to a "straw man" argument when questioned and then slinging accusations puzzled me until I started to look at some of his edits. This article on Haley Industries struck me as odd and not coached in his "voice."

His edit: " The Light Alloys Limited foundry was created in 1952 as part of the Canadian government's decision to support the design and manufacture of a Canadian supersonic fighter aircraft, the CF-105 Arrow. The foundry was located close to Dominion Magnesium, a producer of high purity primary magnesium. In 1959 the government, for a number of reasons, halted the Arrow project and scrapped the five prototype aircraft already manufactured."

The Magellan Aerospace website: " Haley Industries Limited, formerly known as Light Alloys Limited, was constructed on the current site by the Canadian government in 1952. The foundry was part of the Canadian government's decision to support the design and manufacture of a Canadian supersonic fighter aircraft, the AVRO Arrow. The foundry was located close to Dominion Magnesium, a producer of high purity primary magnesium. In 1959 the government, for a number of reasons, halted the Arrow project and scrapped the five prototype aircraft already manufactured."

With the number of spellos and grammar errors in his other edits, this well-structured and precisely written passage stood out. However, in “photocopying” the passage, he has already made two errors in presupposing the foundry was started in 1952, which it wasn’t and that the Canadian government created the firm in 1952 which they did not.

Like you, I prefer to leave “sleeping dogs lie” but his stance on a challenge to his article falls into the “my lady doth protest too much” defence. FWIW I will also pass this on to another admin for comment. Bzuk (talk) 05:31, 24 November 2007 (UTC).

[edit] My RfA

Thank you for your participation in my RfA


Click show to open your card! → → →

[edit] Mark Bellinghaus

FYI WP:BLPN#Mark_Bellinghaus. Ongoing issues... Tyrenius (talk) 18:15, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll keep an eye. --John (talk) 21:29, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Depeche Mode again...

John, User:71.106.84.104 has taken to starting the same type of edits we have encountered before. Can something be done? I suspect it's another sock.

Cheers BGC (talk) 00:18, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks John. Best to keep an eye, because he's a persistent one. BGC (talk) 18:13, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

User:68.111.42.26 is now making the same kind of reverts. I think it's a sockpuppet again. Maybe the same one... BGC (talk) 22:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Funny you should say that, I just left them a message...--John (talk) 22:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

User:207.114.190.162 has joined the fun.... We've got a sock here... BGC (talk) 02:56, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I've tagged the account and left them a nice message. It is only someone who wants to improve the encyclopedia; at the moment they are unable to understand how we work. Maybe we can turn them around if we treat them nicely. Thanks for letting me know. --John (talk) 04:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Libertines

Well everything you changed was fine. Nothing wrong with "gained notoriety" because they had been an active band before they achieved fame. Again, removing a mention of the band's chemistry doesn't make a lot of sense, because the on stage relationships are as enduring a memory of the band as their music. Just felt the article was a bit better with these notes in it. Regards --Tefalstar (talk) 15:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I've referenced the said article, hopefully the Gaurdian is verifiable enough. Please be aim to be less patronising in future correspondence with fellow Users.
regards --Tefalstar (talk) 16:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Ah yes, the Gaurdian. I have adjusted the article to follow the source more closely. 'Notoriety' is an unencyclopedic term; it needs to be referenced or (preferably) removed. Best wishes, --John (talk) 17:07, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately friend, the greatest thing about English is Language Acquisition. In the 'real world', chemistry has a recognised and tangible meaning in terms of human interaction, not just chemical interaction. Certainly a mainstream, global newspaper shares my usage of the word, as does the dictionary.
As for notoriety, they were a rock band before 2000, so to say otherwise is misleading. Assuming people can't understand in what context Notoriety and Chemistry are being used is wrong and Wikipedia would soon become one big list of tables and graphs if this were applied everywhere. None of this is POV, in fact finding a mention of the Libertines that doesn't use Chemistry or Notoriety would be difficult. It is simply accessible and descriptive language which adds to the encyclopedia and helps those attempting to discern information from it. I would appreciate it, if only for accuracy, if we could reinstate the notoriety lead and keep the chemistry reference.
regards--Tefalstar (talk) 17:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
No problem. It should be easy to find a reliable source that mentions 'notoriety' then. --John (talk) 17:42, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 70.18.7.190

John, Please be aware that this user seems to be stalking your edits and reverting all or most of your recent reversions. A look at his or her contributions ([[17]])) will indicate this quite easily. My suspicion is that this is the same user as Hollygi, though I might be wrong. At any rate, I thought you would like to know. Cheers! ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 23:40, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks. I have a good idea who it was and have tagged and blocked after reverting all their edits. --John (talk) 00:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
You are entirely welcome. Sorry for the delay in my response. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 05:05, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rumor vs rumour

I noticed that you changed "rumor" to "rumour" in the Nobel Prize article with the edit comment "fmt fixes; rest of artcile seems to use USEng".[18] "rumor" is AmE while "rumour" is BrE, and the majority of the article is written in AmE. So it didn't make any sense to me. –panda (talk) 01:26, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

LOL. What the policy actually says is that it should all be in the same dialect. There is no provision for a 'majority' to be one or the other. I suggest discussing in talk towards standardising on one or the other. See you there. --John (talk) 02:27, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I see what you mean, I got muddled over my edit summary. My mistake. --John (talk) 02:33, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Weezer flag removal

You posted in my talk page that the flag of the US next to where Weezer originated doesn't really add much information, so if you want to remove that flag you might as well remove flags in every band infobox because there's a lot of them. Narian (talk) 15:27, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for the help with She Who Photographs (talk · contribs). I appreciate it. =) -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 20:54, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

No problem, any time. --John (talk) 22:04, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] legal threats

Hi John, you know what, I don't think those legal threats that Rarelibra made against me were ever resolved. I know that he stated to you on the original set that he did not mean them, but then later he sent me an e-mail through Wikipedia being more direct. I do not like that he made them in the first place, lied about his intentions, and then followed them up with more legal threats. I would really appreciate your assistance. regards, Icsunonove (talk) 22:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

If it is just lingering bad feelings over what happened, I sympathise but would counsel you to put it behind you and move on. If it is an ongoing problem, please point me to the problematic behaviour or else forward the email to me and I will see what I can do to help resolve things. --John (talk) 22:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
For me the issue is two parts. He made his first set of legal threats, then retracted them -- well, he said they were "misinterpreted". :) So that one was dealt with, I guess. But then his second set came through e-mail and wasn't addressed by him or any Admin (to be fair I believe it was sort of lost in all the banter :). His interpretation of law is absurd on one hand, though on the other, his behavior just smacks in the face of core Wikipedia policy. Anyway, thanks for the help. Icsunonove (talk) 22:59, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Words

"words are better"

Words are also longer and can cause lines to break awkwardly. The flagicon you removed from the UCSC infobox was being used properly as a visual shorthand to include a succinct, token acknowledgement in the location line of the infobox that California is, indeed, in the United States -- without the word-wrapping that's there now, taking up two lines of vertical space, with "United States" being broken right in the middle. I added the flagicon several months ago while keeping WP:FLAGCRUFT specifically in mind, having determined that the US flag's near-universal recognizability and {{flagicon}}'s reputed alt-text ability would more than offset whatever negatives there were to using the flagicon in place of a 13-character string. Would you mind reversing your edit for the sake of the layout? --Dynaflow babble 00:55, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting one. I'd be inclined, if anything, to just remove the country field entirely if having it breaks the infobox (though it looks fine on my monitor). I would also note that of the seven UC campuses, no two used the same format in the infobox, so I thought I would standardise on the form you noticed me inserting. Perhaps this would be best addressed at Talk:University of California? --John (talk) 01:00, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
UC has its own fledgling Wikiproject now, so that would be the place to discuss this. I went through and updated all the infoboxes in May or June, standadizing the format as much as possible. SomIe of the flags seem to have migrated since then, the footer logo banners I was using to regulate the width of the infoboxes have been resized here and there (in UCLA's case causing the flagicon itself to line-wrap), and I think the template's maintainers have been futzing with the code lately too. I'll make a note to restandardize the things during my next unscheduled productivity-avoidance wiki-binge. --Dynaflow babble 01:15, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] re: a few of your recent edits that resemble my own...

Hi John. You won't know me... I used to be a logged editor many moons ago (had over 20000 edits back then)... but after witnessing a growing "anti-anon" trend... and feeling that this went against what Wiki was all about... I rejected my old account for the "purity" of anonymous editing. Close to 30000 IP edits later and I am content with the path I have chosen. I have lots of "Wiki allies"... if you look at Wiki Admin Wiki alf's talk page you will see a long history of conversations and "Wiki-venting" over the battle-scars we've earned here. I notice you are doing a nice little flagcruft cleanup on quite a few music articles. Today I thought I would follow that same route and do a little WP:MOSFLAG cleaning myself. I randomly selected the List of death metal bands as a good enough place to start. Working through the A-B-C's I plugged away at a few dozen and did some good old fashioned cleanup including rm'ing the crufty little flags. Problem is I have a couple of stalkers who are following behind me and undoing my edits. If you look at the recent contributions Kameejl (talk · contribs) and CircafuciX (talk · contribs) you'll see what I mean. CircafuciX doesn't rv with any stated guidline... it's just his personal POV against it. Kameejl masks his "flag re-adds" with false edit summaries to cover up what he's really up to. Are you having similar struggles? Is this something we can take to a higher forum? I don't want to bug my buddy Alf or any other admin friends directly... I bug them enough :D I'm on a laptop so my IP tends to float. If you want to respond to me directly.. my static IP address (it's my desktop at work and it's mine and mine alone) is User:156.34.142.110 I'm the anon IP with all the barnstars :D Thanks for your time and have a nice day! 156.34.230.166 (talk) 02:21, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your message and for your efforts in reducing flagcruft. It is all up for discussion, as is everything we do here; see below, and perhaps a forthcoming post from me at the MoS talk page. --John (talk) 04:44, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Kameejl (talk · contribs) continues to stalk in behind WP:MOSFLAG edits and rv them.... using the false edit summary "wikify". Thoughts... suggestions? 156.34.230.166 (talk) 22:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
PS. the humour of it is...now that I've asked you about false edit summaries... Mr K stopped using summaries altogether. I never watch TV... haven't watched any TV for several years. Why bother. There is WAY more entertainment value here on Wiki than you'll ever find on television :D . Cheers! 156.34.230.166 (talk) 22:55, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm too lazy to type long comment as I'm nearly always doing plenty of editing at once. Wikify is an apt term, not a "false" one. I did never intend to cover up anything. As WP:MOSFLAG is not prohibiting the kind of flag use you cannot cite it. That's what I call "false" use of guidelines. If 156 wouldn't be such a POV pushing user I wouldn't be reverting the wrongly backed up edits. Kameejl (Talk) 23:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

If you want to know some reasons to have flags:
  • Infoboxes are meant to be quick overviews. Countries are very quickly identified by their flag. I wouldn't know any quicker way.
  • Origin flags don't violate any MOS
  • Bands have no nationality that can be emphasized, as a band is not a person. Kameejl (Talk) 23:59, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


I've looked around and have seen you and 156 are removing flags everywhere. I think this is not how wikipedians should behave. We should discuss this matter before mass editing. Again, just like genre delimiters this is an act of POV pushing. The flag where put there by zillion editors over the months (years?). Now 2 users think these flag suck, and start to mass delete flags. I just can't understand this. It just doesn't feel right. I use/appreciate the flags in band infoboxes, I think they are useful. Like you said "There may well be interesting discussions to be had but reversion will not achieve that.". If you change "reversion" for "mass flag deletion" you might understand what I think. Kameejl (Talk) 00:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
We do have a consensus on the matter though; it is expressed at WP:MOSFLAG. Let's discuss this at your user talk for now. --John (talk) 00:38, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flag usage on All That Remains

I think it looks rather bare without one. It is a sense of quick identity which is the reason for infoboxes, so I can say the same for their logo, which is the same situation. Would you want to remove their sense of visual identity from their page and just write out "All That Remains".? I don't think so. I think the flag usage should be used especially for bands with the same name but different location. I also don't know why people would care to remove them, I'm sorry. --CircafuciX (talk) 02:52, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flagicon

Where does WP:MOSFLAG state flag usage is deprecated? The reason given for people related infoboxes (place of birth/death) is not applicable to band infoboxes. The 2 boxes have been combined but that doesn't mean bands and solo artists are the same thing. Kameejl (Talk) 08:32, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Allende

Somehow my last edit coincided with a wikipedia database downtime and it managed to mess up the references. I tried to rollback but the system was offline for maintenance. Thanks for your help. Regards, Asteriontalk 21:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

No problem, you are welcome. --John (talk) 21:47, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Page move

Hi, I am planning to move "Lateral apertures" to "Lateral aperture". There are two of these, one on each side of the forth ventricle in the brain. I think that the heading should be in the singular, as per standard format. The redirect page (with more than one edit) "Lateral aperture" needs deleting before this move can be done, and I will be grateful if you could delete this redirect. I have redirected most of the links which where in a large nav box, and a few others. "Lateral apertues" can be left as a redirect to "lateral aperture". It seems uncontroversial to me, but if you prefer I would list it for articles for move discussion, as suggested in the most recent edit summary on the redirect page (I think that the editor may have misunderstood, or did not realise that this was an uncontroversial move). If you are prepared to delete the redirect page and then do the page move, I will review the redirects after the move. Snowman (talk) 01:29, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

It is done now. I found out about the template {{db-author}}, which is used when a editor requests speedy deletion of a page where no one else has made any significant edits. Snowman 13:55, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Acronymns and Periods (like "US")

Hi John, OK, you're right about Sceptical, even though "sce" should really be pronounced "se" in English, since "ce" is almost always "soft". But have you see Wikipedia's own article on acronyms?

I quote:

Traditionally, in English, abbreviations have been written with a full stop/period/point in place of the deleted part to show the ellipsis of letters, although the colon and apostrophe have also had this role. In the case of most acronyms and initialisms, each letter is an abbreviation of a separate word and, in theory, should get its own termination mark. Such punctuation is diminishing with the belief that the presence of all-capital letters is sufficient to indicate that the word is an abbreviation.

Ellipsis-is-understood style

Some influential style guides, such as that of the BBC, no longer require punctuation to show ellipsis; some even proscribe it. Larry Trask, American author of The Penguin Guide to Punctuation, states categorically that, in British English, "this tiresome and unnecessary practice is now obsolete",[11] though some other sources are not so absolute in their pronouncements. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunil060902 (talk • contribs) 11:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Also I notice that US redirects to United States, just as U.S. does. Other well known examples: NATO, FBI, CIA. Do you see what I'm trying to get across?

Also I noticed you left instances of UK in the Depeche Mode article as they were!

best, Sunil060902 (talk) 10:56, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, forgot about the WP:ENGVAR guide:

Periods and spaces

Acronyms and initialisms are generally not separated by full stops (periods) or blank spaces (GNP, NORAD, OBE, GmbH); many periods and spaces that were traditionally required have now dropped out of usage (PhD is preferred over Ph.D. and Ph. D.). Truncated (Hon. for Honorable), compressed (cmte. for committee) and contracted (Dr. for Doctor) abbreviations may or may not be closed with a period. A period is much more usual in American usage (Dr. Smith of 42 St. Joseph St.); and no period is commonly preferred in British and other usage (Dr Smith of 42 St Joseph St, though one or other "St" might take a period, in such a case). Some British and other authorities prefer to drop the period from truncated and compressed abbreviations generally (XYZ Corp, ABC Ltd), a practice also favored in science writing. Regardless of punctuation, such abbreviations are spaced if multi-word (op. cit. or op cit, not op.cit. or opcit).

US and U.S.

In American English, both US and, decreasingly, U.S. are common abbreviations for United States; US is yet more common in other varieties. When referring to the country in a longer abbreviation (USA, USN, USAF), periods are not used. When the United States is mentioned along with one or more other countries in the same sentence, US or U.S. can be too informal, and many editors avoid it especially at first mention of the country (France and the United States, not France and the US). When the United States is mentioned by acronym in the same article as other abbreviated country names, for consistency do not use periods (the US, the UK and the PRC); and especially do not add periods to the other acronyms, as in the U.S., the U.K. and the P.R.C.). The spaced U. S. is never used, nor is the archaic U.S. of A., except in quoted materials. USA and U.S.A. are not used unless quoted or part of a proper name (Team USA).

best, Sunil060902 (talk) 11:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Milosevic edit war

Hi, I'm involved in a dispute with a couple of anons and one single-purpose account in Slobodan Milošević. It's about the paragraph stating that his corpse was staked by vampire hunters. The other editors believe that the material violates NPOV. I say since it's well-documented and newsworthy, it belongs in the article. I could really use some help so I don't violate 3RR. Thanks! Dchall1 16:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)