Talk:John de Vere, 15th Earl of Oxford
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[edit] Extremely confused
So is the 11th earl his grandfather, and thus John's father? Or is the 11th earl John's grandfather, and thus the 15th earl's great grandfather? Are there generations between that did not bear the title? How many? 71.198.127.97 07:37, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
