Talk:John Taylor Gatto

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[edit] Alexis de Tocqueville award

This article says Gatto recieved the Tocqueville award in 1998, but the award site says it went to: David Brennan,and Dr. Michael Joyce

“for bringing the cities of Milwaukee and Cleveland meaningful school choice.”

Is there more that one award with this name?

I found the same thing. From the looks of it, Mr. Gatto has never received a Tocqueville award. Perhaps this article should be marked to cite references. 'Kash 01:46, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, after some casting around on the 'Net, I found that, while the dates vary between 1997 and 1998 (with Gatto's own website specifying 1997), the award he received seems to be "The Alexis de Tocqueville Award for Excellence in the Advancement of Educational Freedom". This seems to imply that there might be more than one award of the same name. However, searching for this phrase in full on Google reveals 9 hits from 3 sites. It seems we need to ask for clarification.

-- TimNelson 09:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I've got it all figured out. See Alexis de Tocqueville Award for details.

-- TimNelson 10:05, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Really, is this NPOV? I already removed a bunch of nonsense from the references section. I'm no fan of the current educational system but this article reads like an ad for Gatto. Surely there's criticism of his work; why isn't it discussed?

vsync (talk) 04:16, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Criticisms on Gatto

I agree with Vsync on this. I read through Mr. Gatto's own site and he seems to over-romanticize earlier pedagogic ideas. Also, his boastfulness over the benefits of both corporal punishment and the salons of Athens seem a bit creepy, IMHO.

Surely there must be some valid critics of Gatto's theories floating around on the Net.

Kulturvultur (talk) 01:47, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I've added some criticism from one scholar. --zenohockey (talk) 01:35, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gatto Criticism & Suggestion to Remove Critical Pedagogy under "See Also"

I'm in agreement with the previous commentator that there has to be criticism of Gatto. I for one wish to point out that I just finished reading his Dumbing Us Down and, although at first it had my attention, it ultimately left me more morose than when I purchased it, now adding to the fact that Gatto did not deliver a resolution, (as an educator I witness the problems in our educational systems persistently), I had wasted money in his pontification. By the last chapter I suddenly realized (without confessional on Gatto's part) that he has to be of some ultra-Conservative persuasion who is completely out of touch with what education is and has always been for: EDUCATING. His, "Congregational Principle," (the title of aforementioned chapter), says it all in two words alone. Yet throw in, "Trust in families and neighborhoods and individuals to make s sense of the important question, 'What is education for?'" (93-94), and one can pierce Gatto's illusion of pedagogical 'concern' to see the "Monkey on the back" for what he really is.

~I'm also desperately recommending the removal of the Critical Pedagogy link under "See Also" in this article as Gatto is NOT a Critical Pedagogue and neither his ideas, philosophy, politics nor pedagogy come even remotely close to Critical Pedagogy. I'm also reading Critical Pedagogy by Joe L. Kincheloe and can positively affirm that these two philosophies are worlds apart. --Carlon (talk) 05:01, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Re your first paragraph, please remember that "Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject" (Wikipedia: Talk page guidelines). If you have any pointers to any third-party criticism, feel free to post them here or add them to the article.
Re your second paragraph, I would place Gatto within the CP ambit. It's admittedly difficult to positively establish an intersection, since neither he nor Kincheloe, McLaren, et al. (to my knowledge) cites the other. But, although (if I may oversimplify matters, and since you did I suppose I may) he is culturally conservative and "orthodox" CP is progressive, both desire to educate (note that Gatto favors "education," like just about everyone; he opposes schooling) children with the ultimate goal of ending technocratic, bureaucratic, corporate, impersonal (etc.) American capitalism and returning to a smaller-scale, more communitarian way of life. It is Gatto's contention, mainly in his Underground History (blurbed by Howard Zinn), that American financiers and industrialists, social-Darwinian academics, and various other elites lay the foundation for compulsory schooling to benefit American business. This should sound familiar, at least in its resonance. (See also David Albert's "Introduction" to Dumbing Us Down, 10th Anniversary Ed., pp. xxii-xxiii, xxvii-xxviii.) --zenohockey (talk) 00:28, 27 April 2008 (UTC)