Talk:John Quelch (pirate)

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[edit] Information and citations

When adding information PLEASE add citations. Recently stuff was taken out about Old Roger saying there is no evidence off it ever being flown when they are citations from a book. If you can find a reference please add it. Also about the part that said "More than half the crew escaped" I had put a sizable list with all but a few being hanged. Most escaped but to be caught by Major Sewall and hanged with the rest of the crew. And if you do move articles around, please make sure the reference section still works. Thanks! Deflagro 02:22, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About those changes....

Sorry about the lack of citations. I modified the page but did not include specific citations because the book was already referenced. I am the author of Quelch's Gold, recently published and was very pleased to see that Deflagro had added an entry. The book is the most extensive study done of Quelch and was researched and written over three years. Primary sources are listed in the book and include the Calendar of State Papers from the British Archives in London, the records of the Massachusetts Council at the Massachusetts State Archives, and The Boston News-Letter, America's first newspaper, copies held at the Massachusetts Historical Society.

The list that you included was from the arrest warrant issued by the Governor. It was not a list of those hanged but a list of known crew members. Only six men including Quelch were actually hanged. Of the remaining prisoners, six had sentence commuted to service at sea, at least one died in jail, two were found innocent, and three slave members of the crew where either sold or returned to their owners. As far as the flag, all mentions in books point to Ralph D Paine who himself never provided any source for his "Old Roger". I am convinced it is completely false and no primary sources I uncovered ever mentioned it. Indeed, the trial transcript clearly states the English flag was flown.I stand by my version of the entry and hope that the editors will reconsider reinstating it.Silverhilt 17:58, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Ahh! Well welcome to Wikipedia! Anyway, the Pirate's Who's Who which I referenced some named those as members of his crew and hanged. Most were said to be tried at Star Tavern in Boston in 1704. About Old Roger, maybe we should try and find a painting of Quelch to use in the infobox, and put the flags in later places. Deflagro 20:46, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not surprised by this. Many of the older sources (and most of the ones copyright free on the web) on Quelch are just plain wrong. I discovered this once I went to the primary sources: the trial transcript and the governor's records and letters. For instance, the trial was not held at the Star Tavern, it was held at the Town House. The members of the court ate lunch everyday at the Star Tavern and discussed the trial progress there. It's that kind of inaccuracy that has built up over the years. No one has ever written an entire book on Quelch until mine but the best chapter written is in Pirates of the New England Coast by Dow and Edmonds (Dover Books). They are very accurate on the facts of the case. Check out my website also if you like: wwww.captain-quelch.com As far as the flags go, you know my stance on that. There is no portrait or sketch of Quelch known which is strange considering his execution was such a huge event with thousands of spectators and America's first reporter/editor in the crowd taking notes! Guess he wasn't a sketch artist.Silverhilt 08:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

After checking on the Internet and consulting with Edward Foxe, one of my most piratically-expert friends, I must conclude that Silverhilt is right. Phillip Gosse's "Pirates' Who's Who" is often in error, unfortunately, and this flag is one of the things Gosse got wrong, misleading generations of scholars like myself and the hard-working Deflagro. Pirate Dan 18:40, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

So it's wrong a lot? Dang it, I've cited that on several articles. So where did this flag come from and what should we show? Deflagro 22:02, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Just saw what Silverhilt said on your talk page Dan and what you replied. I haven't done much study on Piracy so I didn't realize the Pirate's Who's Who was incorrect. I will revert the edits. We might have to hold off on a few that are unreferenced because I don't think Silverhilt can write it since he wrote the references too. I might have to go buy the book or find it in a library to reference some stuff. Silverhilt, it would be great if we could really work on this article and make it really well. Also, I want to hold off some on the unreferenced ones because I don't want this to become like Blackbeard where there are a billion citation needed ones. How can we put it in there what Gosse said, but then say that this is most likely not true and have a reference for that? Deflagro 22:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

Right now it is only in the 1666 Births category and the 1704 Deaths category. Now I'm not sure whether it should be in the Pirate Category or the Privateer Category. If in the Pirate Category either British or American? Or maybe both Pirate and Privateer? Deflagro 23:14, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest putting it in the category of American pirates. Quelch was not the holder of the letter of marque, his captain was, and he engaged in no legitimate privateering actions, so I would not put him under privateers. Sinc ehe was apparently a Massachusetts native, I think that qualifies him as "American" rather than "British," as I think the term American was used even then for natives of Britain's American colonies. Pirate Dan 14:57, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks I added him. Deflagro 18:09, 9 July 2007 (UTC)