Talk:John McLoughlin

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Contents 1 McLaughlin or McLoughlin ? 2 info from Sign at the I-205 rest stop in West Linn, Oregon 3 WTC survivor 4 Canadian-american? 5 David McLoughlin 6 Intro

[edit] McLaughlin or McLoughlin ?

This one is McLoughlin I think (I'll standardise the article that way, though I admit I'm not certain). John McLaughlin is a famous guitarist. --Camembert

It's McLoughlin, I'm a tourguide at the home he spent his last ten or so years living in. Nithos

I know John McLaughlin. Ericd

[edit] info from Sign at the I-205 rest stop in West Linn, Oregon

I have a photo of the sign that is located at the rest stop/view point on Interstate 205 in West Linn, Oregon. Rather than upload the photo as a source, I'll just type what the sign reads:

"Dr. John McLoughlin 1784-1857. Chief Factor of the Hudson's Bay Company at Fort Vancouver. Philanthropist, and founder of Oregon City. The land on the east bank of the Willamette River at the falls was claimed by Dr. McLoughlin and the Hudson's Bay Co. in 1828-1829. First called Willamette Falls, the town was platted in 1842 and was named Oregon City by Dr. McLoughlin. Oregon City was the first incorporated U.S. City west of the Rocky Mountains - 1844. Provisional and Territorial Capital - 1843-52, and the continuous seat of government for Clackamas County since 1843. Dr. McLoughlin became an American citizen and was elected Mayor of Oregon City in 1851. His home as built in 1845 near the falls and was moved to the top of the bluff in 1909. The McLoughlin House National Historic Site is open to the public. Dr. McLoughlin is remembered as "The Father of the Oregon Country" because of the aid he provided to the missionaries and pioneers that traveled over the Oregon Trail."

Cacophony 03:33, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] WTC survivor

I've split the WTC survivor John McLoughlin off of this page and into its own entry. Billdorr 07:35, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I would suggest if you do that to put some sort of thing at the top so people know there are multiple entries. I'm sure when the movie comes out a lot of people will come to this page trying to find the WTC survivor. -Krawnight 04:46, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Canadian-american?

What is it that makes this man "Canadian-American"? If he was born and raised in Canada how is he American?

Well, according to the article, he became an American citizen in 1849 - I would think that would make him a 'Canadian-American'

McLoughlin had never resided in Canada and until his naturalization as a US citizen in 1849 he was a British Subject like most HBC employees (incl most Metis/aboriginal ones, and some Kanakas). Canada in 1849 also meant only Ontario and Quebec.Skookum1 23:57, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

The article says he was born in Quebec, and he worked at Fort William in Ontario (I assume he lived there too). And that is according to a source from Canada. So I think that would qualify for the Canadian part, eh? Aboutmovies 04:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Just for the record, Fort William was in the pays d'en haut, "the upper country" above Canada, i.e. westward up the Great Lakes drainage. It only became part of Ontario when that province wrastled a chunk of the North-west Ter; this was long after McLoughlin's reign over the Columbia District, or his naturalization as an American. Canada was from Sault Ste Marie east and south; Fort William wasn't a part of the Colony, but even in the days of New France had not been part of le canada, but another country west of it, again, le pays d'en haut (my Fr is rusty that might be le pays en haut); Fort William was the "port"/clearinghouse/warehouse for the voyageur network westward from there; those who ferried between Fort William and Canada - Montreal - were the courier du bois, the voyageurs were the guys who ranged up the Rainy River to Lake of the Woods and across the Prairies; I used to think they all meant the same thing - courieur du bois, voyageurs, and gens de pays d'en haut - but apparently there's a distinction; think I got this from a CBC radio show once.Skookum1 08:23, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, actually, I just looked over a few historical maps and the Thunder Bay area (formerly Fort William-Prince Arthur) was within the Province of Canada and its predecessors; but not much west of it, i.e. not Kenora/Lake of the Woods. I'm going to have to compare the maps I've found with HBC/Rupert's Land maps, and also this has reminded me there's a need for an article about the Rat Portage War, which some Canadian historians politely tag the Rat Portage Dispute, in which competing authorites of Ontario and Manitoba warred over Kenora; but the boundary at stake was all the way to Nipigon, and as in Riel's time it was expected that the Lakehead was part of teh North-West; but maybe officially, on paper, it was supposed to be in the charter of Canada as set up by the British after taking New France; I'll compare the New France maps too for the hell of it.Skookum1 08:31, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Suffice to say that life in Fort William was like nothing in Canada below the Lakes, even if it may officially have been in the colony (rather than in Rupert's Land); its culture was part of the West, and of a fur trade settlement (one of the wildest...the annual bash was infamous), and not similar in the slightest to the settlement farming and urban way of life in the Canadas proper (the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence Lowland). Living there did not make him an Ontarian by identity, anything but esp[ecially for the archetypes that word conjures to a Canadian; his identity was that of the fur trade life.Skookum1 09:02, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Interesting and all, but for better or worse people all clasified by their countries for their nationality, not so much their occupation. G. Vancouver was a British subject and as such is British, not sailor or explorer or navy employee for his nationality. Again, McLoughlin was born in Canada, lived there, and since he later lived in the US and became a citizen he is Canadian-American. If you want you might try the angle that Canada didn't exist until 1867/1931, but then a whole lot of things on Wikipedia would need to be updated. Life in the U.S. where he lived would not have been much like life on the East Coast, but like your arguement it is completely irrelevant as to his nationality, which again is Canadian-American. Aboutmovies 07:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] David McLoughlin

Redlinked here because he needs an article, and there may be more on him in sources on his father that others here are more familiar with (meaning I don't have time, but know he should have an article). Brought to my attention again because of the account of his party's journey up the Okanagan Trail in John Hopper's Indian Wars of the Pacific Northwest, which I've quoted a passage from on my sandbox page in relation to the Yakima War article/discussion.Skookum1 08:33, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

There is a canyon called McLoughlin Canyon near Tonasket, WA named after David McLoughlin.

[edit] Intro

[Dr. John McLoughlin, baptised Jean-Baptist McLoughlin, (October 19, 1784 – September 3, 1857), the "Father of Oregon", was a fur trader and early settler in the Oregon Country in the Pacific Northwest. In the late 1840s his general store in Oregon City was famous as the last stop on the Oregon Trail.

I just got up so don't feel like trying to change/add stuff, not with any reliable cogency anyway, but just scanning over this struck me - surely his store in Oregon City isn't hte most prominent thing about him, for pity's sake. Fort Vancouver was a "general store" too, and also at the end of the Oregon Trail; the HBC and his role in it should be in place of his little retail outlet in Oregon City; although in relation to another article involving the shared history of people and places in the Pacific Northwest, this is an example of USPOV-ism; that what's important to American must be important to others, and that what's not important to American history doesn't matter. I know it's not intentional, but it is typical. I'm going to add mention of his position as chief Factor in the HBC at Fort VAncover, and will leave that Oregon city store mention in for now; but I think it should be downplayed as actually incidental to his historical role, more like the retirement job post-annexation.Skookum1 17:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)