Talk:John Maxwell Coetzee
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[edit] Old comments
named laureate of the Nobel Prize in Literature for 2003, the fourth African to be so honoured.
- Is he really an ethnic African ?
- Depends what you mean by that. He was born in Africa, and his parents quite possibly were too. However, he is ethnically of quite recent immigration to Africa (i.e. the past few centuries). On the other hand, where to draw the dividing line is a judgment call. Are Slavic peoples ethnically European? They are from Europe, but their ancestors immigrated there only a dozen or so centuries ago. --Delirium 05:04, Apr 13, 2004 (UTC)
A bit longer than a dozen centuries ago, as the fact that much of present day Eastern Germany was occupied by Slavs before the formation of the the Central European states can atest (likewise, Europe spans from the Atlantic to the Urals, and Slavs were certainly within these bounds, originating as Slavs in Central/East Central Europe (the exact stop is debatable). Ethnicity is a bogus concept anyway. But since we're on the topic, there was an interesting article about Coetzee today. He is vising Poland soon since apparently his great grandfather emigrated from Poland to South Africa in his late teens or something like that. --~~
I thought it was pronounced "coet-zee-uh"?
Wh
What about including pronunciation of the name in IPA or SAMPA? I thought the oe was like English oo (food) rather than u/oo (foot)...? Wathiik 11:36, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Should there be a mention about his animal rights views? It's one of the themes in his work, there are some quotes concerning them, etc.
What is Coetzee's mother tongue? I assume either English or Afrikaans.. Which does he write in?
[edit] Pronouncement of name
An older revision says "kut-SEE", the latest one says "kut-SAY-uh". So which one is it? Skinnyweed 23:36, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
It's "kut-see(r)", rhymes with 'puts ear'. 'kut-SAY-uh' sounds like something from Lethal Weapon 2, a high water mark in the mangling of South African pronunciation.
- I have changed the pronouncation to küt-ZĒ, per the US Library of Congress's Pronunciation Guide to the Names of Public Figures [1] and the way that it is pronounced in the introduction to his Nobel lecture [2]. This is also how it is listed in the Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia [3]. Yinon 08:52, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
On the subject of Coetzee's status as an African: J.M. Coetzee is a REAL African just as black Britons are real Britons and real Europeans. White Africans are very proud of and attached to their Africanness and have not had strong links with Europe for centuries. They would regard it as extremely racist if someone were to question their status as Africans- take it from white African!--100%RSA 23:33, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Pronounciation of the name: In South Africa Coetzee's surname is pronounced KOO-TZEE-UH. (I should know, since I am South African.) I wouldn't put credence in the pronounciation of some Swedes since they cannot claim to be arbiters of how South African should pronounce their names. Dakno 11:19, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Seems to me that the transcription is not real IPA... It looks more like a mix out of IPA and other systems. I'm quite sure that the <-ee> is pronounced something like (SAMPA) [i@], as in Afrikaans, I'm not sure about the <-tz->. Some people claim that it's pronounced like /tS/ (English <ch>), but to me it looks more like /ts/. The German wiki site transcribes the name as [kuˈt͜sɪə], I'm not sure what the <?> is supposed to mean (a glottal stop?), but apart from that it looks much better than the transcription on this site. Can anyone help and solve the 'mystery'? Wathiik 11:35, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I was just listening to a sound file - http://core.ecu.edu/engl/whisnantl/4300/coetzee.htm - and it looks like there are two pronunciations, namely something like [ku'tSei@] and something like [k@'tsi(:)@]... Wathiik 11:48, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Wathiik says my transcription "is not real IPA." Of course, it is not IPA. Whoever said it was? It is a plain, child's English transcription of the Afrikaans pronounciation of the name. "Koo" as in "cooler"; "ts" as in "tsetese"; "ee-uh" as in "year" (without the "r"). That is how the name is pronounced in South Africa. Coetzee is a relatively common surname in South Africa. Even though Coetzee is not a real Afrikaner--at most he is an Anglo-Afrikaner or a bloedsappe--his surname is always pronounced the way it is in Afrikaans. There is no need to Americanize his name or to transform him into some weird Teutonic freak. I do not mean to be arrogant, but some people do know better.
Dakno 17:47, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
I was talking about this transcription here, which is (still) included on the site: (IPA: ['kutsé:]) Wathiik 15:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
btw... what about the pronunciation with an English 'ch' in it? Is that an anglicized pronunciation? Wathiik 15:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Nobel Prize section
Do we really need an entire subheading containing a few short sentences saying he won the Nobel? And the Personal section also. Skinnyweed 02:20, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
- Nope. I've integrated them into the main body. (Which, oddly, contains almost no mention of his fiction. Something I'll try and put right.) Barbara Osgood 22:26, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Template spelling mistake - autobiographical
Spells 'autobiographical' wrong. Skinnyweed 21:44, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
- Fixed Yinon 00:56, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Fiction?
Should Boyhood and Youth be under fiction? They are autobiographical recollections of his real life experiences but there are elements of fiction in terms of distance and narrative voice. On the other hand, don't all writers take certain liberties when writing their autobiography? But don't they also rely on personal experience in their fiction? AshcroftIleum 19:26, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
- Perhaps make a section Autobiographical like the template. Skinnyweed 19:40, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
-
- They are fictionalised biography. In the essay on autobiography in Doubling the Point Coetzee specifically (if playfully) describes this genre as autrebiography. They are novels about John Coetzee - a character overlapping but distinct from John Coetzee the man who is distinct again from J.M. Coetzee the writer. In the same way Elizabeth Costello in Slow Man and the eponymous hero of the previous novel are overlapping but not necessarily concomitant charecters. As such, they should either be renamed as "fictionalised biography" or incorporated into fiction, in my opinion. EdwardMackay 12:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Afrikaner category
Removed this category as his first language is English [4], [5] and apparently speaking Afrikaans as a first language (along with being of "european ancestry") is one of the few cireteria for classifiying someone as in this contested category. --Deon Steyn 09:25, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Modernism
What is the thinking behind designating Coetzee a modernist in the box at the top? He evidently inherits very strongly from modernism, particularly Beckett, but is he (can he be) a modernist at his stage of history? Postmodernist and postcolonialist offer other problems, but modernism can't be right? EdwardMackay 12:17, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Although Beckett was a friend of James Joyce (a modernist), Beckett's works were post-modernist not modernist. --Cazo3788 06:33, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Polish origin
The source- http://www.eduskrypt.pl/na_polski_trop_naprowadzil_go_pradziad-info-1801.html is in Polish only. The news is from Polish Press Agency (PAP) info service (PAP - Nauka w Polsce). Kowalmistrz 19:18, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Citizenship
I think the fact that JMC changed his citizenship and residence is important, and worth mentioning in the introduction. Iterator12n Talk 00:13, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
