Talk:John Hertz (fan)
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This article was nominated for deletion on 25 June 2007. The result of the discussion was Keep. |
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Drhaggis, I don't want to step on your edits, but I wanted to update the John Hertz entry. In particular, I wanted to correct the misapprehension that choreographer is a subset of fan. "John is an all around fan, not just a choreographer", John is known worldwide as a choreographer, and dance instructor, it's not just something that he does as SF conventions. From my perspective, as a both a SF fan, and a dancer, his contributions are much more significant in the dance community. Maybe just take off the (fan) tag and put in separate sections for dance and fandom? - ThomasTThoms
- I based my edits on the bio that Mr Hertz provided for a recent convention. The older bio spoke only of his choreography, not to the whole body of works making Mr Hertz a little cross. His inclusion in an encyclopeda must be based on his contributions that are both notable and verifiable. His Hugo nomination and fan wrtiting are both notable and verifiable, and should be the crux of the article.
- If you have more verifiable info regarding his work with regency dance, please add it! However his classification/disambiguation of Fan still stands for me. -Dr Haggis - Talk 22:55, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
Hi Drhaggis,
Thanks for the feedback.
I'll go research. I know the information I want, but I'll go find some verifiable sources.
Tom
[edit] Notability
I'm not seeing enough here to indicate that this subject meets the Notability guideline. Please review guideline and cite relevant sources, if any. Avt tor 16:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
- To clarify:
- fanzine editors are only noteworthy if they have major national or international awards.
- activity within fandom, per se, is not generally noteworthy, i.e. chairing a Worldcon does not meet the notability standard. I know plenty of people who judge masquerades or who have some unique schtick, but we're not creating Wikipedia pages for everybody in fandom.
- Given this, I don't see anything that meets the notability criterion.Avt tor 16:48, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
He is a heart Awards winner in 2003. [1] but only a Hugo nominee. This seems like enough to push it over the cusp of notability. If the winds blow toward deletion, so be it. -Dr Haggis - Talk 17:43, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
- I'll try to be circumspect here: I believe that a reasonable person would draw some line between major and minor awards. I also believe that nominations, while perhaps relevant information for a person who is otherwise notable, do not in and of themselves make a person notable. I would ask people to consider whether, for any of the qualifications mentioned, another person with similar qualifications would be considered notable. I do not, generally, see that being the case. I can't say my own opinion is definitive, but I would submit that the small number of opinions likely to be expressed is itself a comment on the notability of this subject.
- (This is relevant to me only because I am creating lists of "noteworthy program participants" for Worldcon pages, so I have a slight sense but also seek consensus on this topic.)Avt tor
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- I'm still inexperienced about the whole nomination for AFD thing...but this article is definately useless. He's just a "fan" for god's sakes. Theonlyedge 00:32, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
- Within the science fiction community, "only a fan" is a pretty feeble criticism. Hertz is not a passive consumer of media drivel, but an actifan, a major, fully-involved participant in the community of science fiction fandom. I feel that a Hugo nomination qualifies for notability, all by its own self. His role in the Regency dance movement is just icing on the cake. --Orange Mike 16:08, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
- Being an "actifan" does not warrant inclusion of one in an encyclopedia, but being a Hugo nominatee does. -Dr Haggis - Talk 04:41, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
- Och, aye, Dr. H! But I was attempting to clarify for Theonlyedge that "fan," in the sense that John Hertz is a fan, is not "fan" in sense of, say, a passive consumer who wears green-and-white and cheers on The Bhoys, but rather a vibrantly active member of a participatory community. --Orange Mike 13:52, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
- These strong sentiments should be put in the article, not just here, to justify Hertz's (negligeable) importance. And by the way, this whole science fiction fandom stuff really frightens me... Theonlyedge 00:13, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- These strong sentiments are in the article (the science fiction fandom article); that's why I am meticulous about linking to the science fiction fandom article, not the generic fan article, just as I link to the science fiction fanzine article, not the generic fanzine or zine articles. The quality of the fan experience is totally different in our fandom. I hope the "frightens me" part is a jest; I married within the tribe, so to speak, and next month our 11-year-old will attend her 48th science fiction convention, where (as usual) she will be on some of the discussion panels. --Orange Mike 00:27, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- These strong sentiments should be put in the article, not just here, to justify Hertz's (negligeable) importance. And by the way, this whole science fiction fandom stuff really frightens me... Theonlyedge 00:13, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- Och, aye, Dr. H! But I was attempting to clarify for Theonlyedge that "fan," in the sense that John Hertz is a fan, is not "fan" in sense of, say, a passive consumer who wears green-and-white and cheers on The Bhoys, but rather a vibrantly active member of a participatory community. --Orange Mike 13:52, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
- Being an "actifan" does not warrant inclusion of one in an encyclopedia, but being a Hugo nominatee does. -Dr Haggis - Talk 04:41, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
- Within the science fiction community, "only a fan" is a pretty feeble criticism. Hertz is not a passive consumer of media drivel, but an actifan, a major, fully-involved participant in the community of science fiction fandom. I feel that a Hugo nomination qualifies for notability, all by its own self. His role in the Regency dance movement is just icing on the cake. --Orange Mike 16:08, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
- I'm still inexperienced about the whole nomination for AFD thing...but this article is definately useless. He's just a "fan" for god's sakes. Theonlyedge 00:32, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] etymology
Does anyone know what, if anything, Vanamonde means? —Tamfang 08:43, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
- It's the name of a disembodied artificial intelligence featured in Arthur C Clarke's sf novel The City and the Stars. --DeafMan 15:18, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
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- Many thanks! —Tamfang 04:02, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
