Talk:John Frum

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[edit] John frum seems to be derrived

The 2nd paragraph states: "The name John Frum is sometimes considered a corruption of "John from (America)"" the 5th paragraph ends: "The name "John Frum" is possibly derived from World War II GIs introducing themselves to the locals as "John from America"" this seems a bit double.

[edit] Vanuatu versus New Hebrides

Vanuatu hasn't been called New Hebrides for 24 years, as far as I know. Is it necessary to keep this archaism?

I think the idea is that at the time of Jon Frum's emergence, it was called the New Hebrides, hence it is written as "associated with cargo cults in the New Hebrides (now Vanuatu)" rather than "associated with cargo cults in Vanuatu." —Stormie 01:29, Jun 30, 2004 (UTC)
How about "associated with cargo cults in Vanatu (then the New Hebrides)"? --Thomas 19:09, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
When I originally wrote the article I wasn't too clear on the geography, having gotten my information out of various older books. It should probably say "Vanuatu". silsor 03:46, Nov 10, 2004 (UTC)
Use the place name contemporary with the event. You wouldn't write "In 1066, William of Normandy invaded the United Kingdom (then England)." --Tysto 18:11, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Need more detail

There's a lot of unexplained details here. For example, who exactly is "Rushfeld"? - Keith D. Tyler 23:55, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright violation

I've just reverted this article because the previous version seemed to be a Copyright violation. Much of the article seems to have been taken wholesale from this website. Please feel free to update the formatting and content with material from later revisions, but please make sure material is not taken directly from this website. The Jade Knight 21:57, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

I just was about to let people know this had large sections of copyrighted material lifted from http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/westoc/jonfrum.html, but it appears this was already noted almost 2 YEARS ago. If no one is coming forth to re-write, is it appropriate to delete passages, or add citations to the source? (The source is listed in the 'external links' section, but not references.) 66.41.0.174 (talk) 06:15, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jon versus John

Most articles I've seen on the subject give the name as "John Frum". Why is the article using "Jon"? See for example the recent and definitive Smithsonian article. Jeffr 17:34, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Because the anthropology textbook I used to create the original version of the article used "Jon", having been published in the 1960s. silsor 20:20, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I've moved it to John, which seems more prominent.--Cúchullain t/c 08:11, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Military population

It seems implausible to me that a small archapelago like Vanuatu could be the base of 300,000 US troops during WWII. Could this be more like 30,000?

--- yeah, i mean, how could 300,000 people fit on 100km2 of island, when a mere 8.2 million fit on 830km2 of island elsewhere. ~Ash Ponders 149.169.15.181 17:20, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, islands elsewhere where there are well established transport links, industrial-scale food production, etc.. It's possible, but unlikely. How many US troops were there altogether in 1945? JackWasey

These islands host a population of 212,000 + tourists. 300,000 in dense, organized bases would not be a stretch at all. Hawaii, which is about 10% the landmass of Vanuatu, has a population of 1.2million, for comparison.66.41.0.174 (talk) 06:23, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


Usually black? All the references I have read say that John Frum is white, and quote people from Vanuatu saying this. Need a reference to say that the majority of US servicemen IN VANUATU were black or white, if relevant to the article at all.

I'll look for references, but most of the ones I've read say John Frum is usually black, as in African American, but is sometimes white, and is always American, though not always a GI. The one ref off the top of my head is John Frum He Come: A Polemical Work about a Black Tragedy by Edward Rice. I don't understand what you mean requesting a reference for whether the majority of US servicemen in Vanuatu were black or white. Why would that be relavent to this article?--Cúchullain t/c 03:30, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dangling sentence

The last sentence in the second paragraph appears to be a completely spurious reference to the UK census. Does anyone know why it's there? Leftover from a previously removed section, perhaps?

Bagheera 00:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

No, I (or someone) forgot to close the <ref> in a reference. It's fixed now.--Cúchullain t/c 23:15, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] John From Movement,Inc.

I added the external link to their site, as well as the alternative spelling "John From". I do not know if the site is what it purports to be, but it certainly is pertinent!Lee 15:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not what it purports to be, it's the homepage of some Australian huckster claiming to be the savior of Tanna. But it is pertinent, so it should probably be left in.--Cúchullain t/c 20:01, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
If we're not going to remove it, we should perhaps make it clear that it's not what it claims to be. The guy says "John Frum has returned", and his page is full of repeated requests for donations. It also says: "In Fiji the Fijians [meaning the indigenous population] own less than fifty per cent of their three hundred Island Nation [sic] and now represent under 49% of the population. They are the poor tenants of another man's golden greed." That is blatantly false. Indigenous Fijians own over 80% of the land in Fiji, and represent over 57% of the population (and rising). The reference to them being "poor tenants of another man's golden greed", when read in the context of long-standing tensions in Fiji, seems to be thinly veiled racism directed against Indo-Fijians - particularly ironic given that indigenous Fijians are landowners and that their tenants are, for the most part, Indo-Fijian. Anyway, I would suggest removing the link entirely. Aridd (talk) 12:07, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
If we can make it clear from a NPOV, then keep it. Otherwise, treat it as link to be avoided? I'm just throwing this out for consideration -- I don't have strong feelings either way. Pawyilee (talk) 08:02, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
On review, let's remove it. Just because it claims some relevance to the John Frum cultus does not mean it is actually relevant.--Cúchullain t/c 08:08, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request for more sources / research result. John as John the Baptist? Frum as onomatopoeia?

I understand that nobody identified a person named John Frum, and he is considered to be fictional.

We were wondering if any researcher considered the word 'frum' as an onomatopoeia imitating airplane or any other machine sound? Richard Dawkins clearly associated cargo cults with airplanes deriving cargo.

And as the name 'John' is considered, weren't the natives baptised by missionaries? 'John' sounds very christian. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.71.24.22 (talk) 12:08, 1 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Frum name

Frum (or "Frumm" or "Frumme" or "Fromme") is a pretty common German or Jewish surname. I find it hard to believe that there were virtually no American Frums in the past, as this article claims. It seems pretty reasonable that an American soldier of German or Jewish origin could really have landed on the island.

The source cited for that piece of information leads to Yahoo people search, so it's WP:OR. I'll delete it. Phonemonkey 10:00, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pre-WWII Movement

Both BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/3729715.stm and Damn Interesting http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=788 say John Frum was a native of the island, and his movement, essentially an anti-Christian one, predated the WWII invasion of American GIs , which drastically altered it. It is still undergoing change. Pawyilee 06:53, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] To John From?

Northerntoe (talk) 16:25, 20 November 2007 (UTC)northerntoeNortherntoe (talk) 16:25, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

what if it was a lost package sent to a guy named John but part of the message was missing so it read

"To John From" or just "John From" and the spelling changed over time like in any long believed tradition.

[edit] Origin of the Name

It occurs to me that on a base full of GIs from different parts of the states that there would have been a lot of introductions along the lines of "I'm X from Y," with "Y" being the name of "X"'s home town. Since John is a common name among Americans, and the name of John's hometown would have been giberish to the natives, a native with a less than perfect command of English might naturally mistake "John from" as a name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.40.160.25 (talk) 16:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)