Talk:John F. Kennedy autopsy

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Contents 1 List of personnel 2 Cleanup 3 Bunched up suit coat and/or shirt? 4 Why do skin, shirt and coat all have a bullet hole at same spot? 5 No citation was given and the HSCA does not criticise the diagram 6 "T3"?!?

[edit] List of personnel

I'm delighted to find this list already exists. I'll move it to here, and tag the other with a delete.SBHarris 21:13, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

This article is in major need of a format and sourcing overhaul. I will try to assist as much as I can over the next few days. Ramsquire 23:27, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bunched up suit coat and/or shirt?

I took out some confusing language in the article indicating that the bullet holes should not be at the same spot because the coat could have been bunched up towards his neck.

But, the undeniable fact is that all three bullet holes were at the same level of the skin, the shirt and the coat. This establishes that the coat wasn't bunched up. If it had have been bunched up towards the neck, the bullet hole in the suit coat would have been even lower than the third thoracic vertebra on his back.

The citation given said nothing similar what was said in the article. It had some pictures of when the coat was bunched up.

Here is what was taken out:

However, again there has been controversy on the matter of whether or not the holes in the president's clothing should be expected to correspond to the location of his back wound, since he was sitting with a raised arm at the time of the assassination, and multiple photographs taken of the motorcade show his suit jacket bunched at the back of his neck and shoulder, so that it did not lie closely against his skin. [1]

RPJ 02:49, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why do skin, shirt and coat all have a bullet hole at same spot?

If one looks at the diagram of the autopsy report, the discription in the death certificate referencing the bullet wound to the third thoracic vertebra, with the bullet hole in the shirtcat the same level as the the diagram and the death certificate, and the coat with the bullet hole at the same level as the diagram, death certificate and shirt, one must conclude that is where the bullet hit. Any alleged bunching of the coat either didn't occur or had no effect on that part of the coat.

Is that correct? RPJ 03:08, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

ANSWER: No. I think you're assuming that which remains to be shown. If a man sits with arm raised and waving for a period of time, it's natural that not only will his coat ride up, but the shirt underneath also. We have no proof that this is what JFK's shirt did, but his coat certainly did, and if the shirt did along with it, then their holes would match, and our mystery is basically solved. All that remains to do is assume that Dr. Burkley, who never got a good look at the back wound anyway (and certainly no chance to measure it), simply placed it wrongly. The world would not stop turning on its axis if clothing holes didn't match with skin holes in a homicide (this is very common, actually), and if a doctor who wasn't at the table at the autopsy happened to miss-locate a wound by a few inches. Why should he do better, if he didn't have a ruler?

The above scenario is positively serene compared to the contortions you have to go into to explain things, if the back wound is where Burkley and the clothing ostensibly put it. Now you have the following list of difficulties:

*THREE doctors, not just one, need to be wrong, and need to be wrong with far less excuse than Burkley, since their job was to stand next to the body for hours and make sure they got this right. The three autopsy doctors in charge of measuring the wound's placement THEN must verify an existing autopsy back photograph (which shows a high wound over the shoulder blade) as being correct. Which they did.

*Not only that, but the JFK back photo (which exists and which none of the autopsy doctors, nor any member of the HSCA committee has publicly found any problem with) has to be faked.

*Also, the X-ray (which shows C6 damage at the high wound site) has to be faked.

*And the autopsy measurement of 14 cm (5.5 in) below the bone behind the ear must be wrong, because it matches with the high wound, and cannot be stretched to cover a lower one.

* We now have a disappearing back bullet. The clothing pattern and abrasion collar in the skin shows this to be a wound of entry. Where did the bullet go? It didn't penetrate the pleura if it was low. If it didn't penetrate and fell out, we have all kinds of damage to the neck relatively near it, which it did NOT contribute to. Fishy, fishy. All that high damage must now be caused by a SECOND bullet.

* So, now all kinds of damage to the neck that cannot be accounted for. And from a bullet coming from the wrong direction. The neck bullet which comes out of the throat. We see JFK react to it early, at Z-224. Fibers show this a wound of exit. Behind this wound in the interior of JFK's body, stretching back over the top of the lung, is a bruised plura and lung apex which is the sort of thing caused by a high velocity bullet pressure wave, and by few other things. It doesn't happen from probing after you're dead, because you need blood pressure for bruises to form. JFK was alive while the top of his right lung was bleeding into it. The bullet which did that, came out of this throat.

*Okay, so where then DID IT COME FROM? It bruised the top of this lung and EXITED his throat, but it didn’t just appear inside his neck, out of nowhere. It got into JFK somehow. The only wound in JFK's back it could have entered from, is the high one. Anything else goes right through pleura and chest cavity, and nothing did that. Also, a low back bullet, even if magically crossing pleura and lung without damage to get to the neck, has a problem of who might have fired it from that angle. A secret service man from the trailing car?

You want a low back bullet? Fine. We have a throat wound of exit connecting with all kinds of bruised path through the base of the neck created while JFK was alive, but ending at the skin of this upper back/neck, with no place for it to have gotten into the body. Unless you simply move the back wound up, and then all becomes clear.

In fact, do the angles correctly, and a backwards-extending line connecting Connally's armpit, JFK's throat, and JFK's back wound (if it is high) not only damages his JFK's upper lung tip by shock in exactly the right place, but it extends right back upwards at a 17 degree angle, until 200 feet away it's about 60 feet off the ground, just about window level in the Texas Book Depository. Golly. Sort of makes you wonder what might have been up there, eh? Also, a bullet exiting Connally's nipple area projected back to entry in his armpit and further projected back to JFK's throat, must continue along this line to exits JFK's back rather high up. In fact, just about over his shoulder blade, where the photos and measurements put it. Amazing. SBHarris 04:32, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No citation was given and the HSCA does not criticise the diagram

No citation was put in for a statement that the diagram of the back wound was criticized by the HSCA. If one can be found then the statement should go back in. The HSCA criticized other things about the autopsy but not the diagram.

RPJ 03:19, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "T3"?!?

What on Earth is T3? Someone try to explain, provide a diagram or something for goodness sake! --Mal 21:19, 25 April 2007 (UTC)