Talk:John Bodkin Adams

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[edit] Waffle

There's still far too much waffle in this page. The Why interfere section is unconvincing to say the least--Cunningham 16:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gay?

I'm a little reluctant to accept this man's homosexuality, but could be convinced otherwise :) According to the article, we have one memo from a journalist to go by - which isn't a reliable source. Are there any other references to back this up? I haven't read Cullen, and know nothing about Adams, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 14:20, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

  • This article probably needs a dedicated section for sexuality. Basically though, according to Cullen, Adams was almost certainly a closet homosexual. He was popular with his older female patients because he knew how to 'pass' - he would flirt with them and he was unmarried, allowing them to feel that his attention could even lead to a marriage proposal. However, he was incredibly close to Roland Gwynne, a renowned homosexual who had many affairs with men. Adams and Gwynne went on frequent holidays together and Gwynne would visit Adams daily in the morning at 9 am (according to Adams). While this certainly isn't cast iron proof, it gives the journalist's memo much more credence than one would usually give such a thing. It should also be mentioned that Adams was at one point engaged to be married in 1935 (a fact that should also be added to the article) but broke off the engagement at the last moment after the bride's father had already bought them a house. He therefore flirted with the idea of trying (to pretend) to lead a 'hetero' life, but couldn't bring himself to do it.Malick78 11:06, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changes

Please see this section of the Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Ireland-related articles) talk page. Northern Ireland did not exist when Adams was born, therefore it's Ireland. As for the cats - Category:British serial killers - no. It's a violation of NPOV to label him as a serial killer. Category:Doctors convicted of murdering their patients - convicted of murdering who? Absolutely nobody! One Night In Hackney303 19:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I quite agree. He was acquitted, and not even struck off in the end! --Counter-revolutionary 19:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
  • The info box tells us where he was born and where that place is now - quite clearly it is in Northern Ireland. Just because he was born before it's existence does not mean that the town has to be described as being where it was 'then'. Was Boudicca from Brittania or Britain? Your policy would lead to absurd descriptions. For the record, wikipedia reads:
"Boudica (also spelt Boudicca, formerly better known as Boadicea) (d. AD 60 or 61 ) was a queen of the Iceni people of Norfolk in Eastern Britain who led an uprising of the tribes against the occupying forces of the Roman Empire."

As for NPOV issue of calling him a serial killer, there is a 650 page book cited (Cullen, 2006) which says he was one. It also details how his trial was scuppered for political reasons. Scholarly consensus must therefore take priority over biased justice.

Finally, re: Category:Doctors convicted of murdering their patients, the cat name originally didn't mention 'convicted', but if you look at it the intro has a caveat mentioning the difficulty of proving guilt in medical murder, and therefore those considered by scholars to have killed are allowed. You therefore should take the issue up on that page, and leave Adams in it via the link here until the issue is cleared up there, since Adams fits the criteria as discussed there. Malick78 22:17, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

WP:IMOS states how the naming of Ireland is dealt with, if you wish to change that guideline please start a discussion on that page. Until you do so, the consensus is "Ireland".
Scholarly consensus must therefore take priority over biased justice - I'm sorry, but you don't understand the NPOV policy at all.
Category:Doctors convicted of murdering their patients - caveat removed per the CfD. If it's added back, I'll be glad to take the category back to CfD to make sure that's enforced. One Night In Hackney303 23:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Please copy the relevant para from WP:IMOS here so I can see what you mean. The problem I have is that the info box says where he was born - and the country is where this town is now. Why refer to where it was then? That's not actually the info being referred to. Does WP:IMOS say info boxes should say where a place was or where it is? I think the latter is meant and I can't see where this admittedly subtle issue is discussed on that page. Thanks. Malick78 09:52, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  1. Prior to 1920, use only Ireland. C6 and C26 did not exist.
  2. After 1920, use island of Ireland for C32 where there is possible confusion with C26.
    1. Where needed to emphasise C32, use all-island rather than all-Ireland as some Unionists dislike the latter.
      1. Use all-Ireland where official, as in All-Ireland Senior Football Championship, Primate of All Ireland.
  3. Post-1920, use Northern Ireland for C6.
    1. Use Ulster where official in names, as in Royal Ulster Constabulary, Ulster Unionist Party. Do not describe Ulster as "incorrect" when referring to C6; avoid using it and alert readers to its contentiousness if it is necessary to use it, but it is POV to describe it as incorrect. (If "Ireland" can be 26 or 32 counties, "Ulster" can be 6 or 9 counties).
  4. 1922-1937, use Irish Free State for C26
  5. 1949-present, use Republic of Ireland for C26
    1. Use Ireland in official titles as President of Ireland.
    2. In alphabetically-ordered lists of countries, list under I for Ireland, not R for Republic.
    3. Use [[Republic of Ireland|Ireland]] when Ireland is needed for C26.
  6. Do not use Irish Republic for C26. The article describes a historic term applicable to C32.
  7. Do not use Éire for C26. It is not used within C26 except in Irish language.
  8. Do not use Southern Ireland for C26 except in the specific historical sense described in the article.
"the info box says where he was born" - yes, and he was born in Ireland not Northern Ireland. "Why refer to where it was then?" - because it's talking about where he was born? "That's not actually the info being referred to" - yes it is, it's talking about where he was born, which was Ireland not Northern Ireland.
See for example Muhammad Rafiq Tarar, who was born in Gujranwala, British India. That's now in Pakistan, and in fact he was President of Pakistan, but he was still born in British India. When talking about people's birthplaces we talk about them in the correct historical context, which for this article is Ireland. One Night In Hackney303 10:40, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Yet this only mentions what to call the country at a particular date. It doesn't state unambiguously that an info box stating a town must have the country's name as it was then rather than as it is now. And that is my point. See Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq for this interpretation. You're version has the added problem of being unnecessarily confusing by implying to those unaware of Northern Irish history's subtleties that the present Randalstown is in Ireland, which is highly problematic and indeed false. 'British India' though, is obviously dated and unlikely to cause problems.Malick78 14:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, and the date being referred to is 1899. Considering 6 counties of Ireland became Northern Ireland before part of British India became Pakistan, you've just contradicted yourself. IMOS is quite clear. One Night In Hackney303 15:04, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "An Adams Apple"

The lines cited from the poem "Adams and Eves" include "If they touch an Adam’s apple". Surely this should be "Adams apple"; the whole poem is about how Adams poisoned people. Does anybody have access to a source for the poem? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.123.89.231 (talk) 20:16, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

  • The source is here and it says "Adam's". May not be logical but it was a scurrilous poem for underground circulation... Malick78 (talk) 19:29, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Paris Match

Just come across the following: http://www.matchmag.com/recherche/lire_article.php?article_id=1280 Mikeo1938 (talk) 15:12, 14 April 2008 (UTC)