Talk:Johann Gottlieb Fichte

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Contents

[edit] Old Content

Fichte picked up the problem of Dualism where Kant left it and sought to solve some of the epistemological and ethical concerns of the objective knowledge and the subjective reason. Fichte strove to find the certain, common ground. He argued that by not solving this problem, Kant left it open to skepticism. Fichte saw this as too materialistic, so he attempted to eliminate Kant's dualism, and, in doing so, articulated a nationalism that posited the national community as an ethical community.

Fichte's 1794, Theory of Knowledge, dealt with the problem of the dualism of subject (or freedom) and object (or determinism). He concluded that neither was grounded enough to be confident. His solution was classic idealism. Fichte approached the identity of subject and object by positing that we must think of ourselves from within in order to see that there is no dualism. He said that we must further posit an absolute ego, a creative nature, the world as subject, a conscious totality, a self-creating world with no duality. But, we cannot prove the absolute ego, so it must be posited as a regulative ideal, not a proven existing thing. Furthermore, we have an ethical duty to posit this ego, because we can only be moral by being rational and free. But, to be free, we must be a part of an absolute freedom. We must also act as if God exists, even though we cannot know, nor demonstrate this. We emulate this ideal by action, an ethical duty, that transforms the world and ourselves until we become more like the absolute ego (or God). In doing so, we see that subject and object are not isolated, but are identical. We also discover that in changing the world, we change ourselves, because we only really know the world when we act upon it and changeunion of theory and action was called "praxis"; Hegel would draw upon this ideal.

Fichte develops nationalism in Vocation of Man (1800). In this political philosophy that is a defense of the ethical community of wills, Fichte presents an ethical imperative to work for a community and against chaos. It is a compulsion to act that is a compulsion towards betterment. Each individual has a duty to will an ethical community, a universal cosmopolitan culture. This universal community based on freedom is the goal of human freedom. Fichte posits the intermediate community is the nation-state, a limited community of wills, which is no less ethical and one in which our ethical duty towards national unification is an imperative.

Fichte's Kantian view of a unified Germany is nationalism with an undertone. Fichte sees Napoleon's unification of France as "imposed" unification and, thus, opposed the French as imperialistic. He defends German nationalism and the Germans as the original people, or Ur Volk. He sees the Germans as a privileged and chosen people that must fight to prevent their corruption. He further sees the state as an ethical realization of the German people that guarantees liberty and individuality and is the embodiment of the collective will. He believed that the individual has an ethical duty to immerse himself in the state.

Fichte's nationalism is passionate; thus it does not give itself too much to philosophy. It also became a sort of secular religion for him.

Also, I think a number of claims here need to be made substantially clearer. For example, "He picked up the problem of Dualism? where Kant? left it and sought to solve some of the epistemological? and ethical? concerns of the [objective knowledge]? and the [subjective reason]?." So, where did Kant "leave" the problem of dualism, and just what does it mean to say Fichte "picked it up" there? Also, just what are the "epistemological? and ethical? concerns of the [objective knowledge]? and the [subjective reason]"? I can't tell, but I sure would like to know! --LMS

ACK! Larry, must you make me go back and do research I've already done?  :-7 Don't have my notes with me now (at work). I've got most of the warrants for my arguments written down somewhere's, but this was the short version of my write-up on Fichte. I entered it because I couldn't find my elongated version complete with quotes from both Kant and Fichte. Also, I doubt my Philosophy Prof was too concerned about my accuracy (disstressing). Thanks for the critique! --Invictus

I agree with Larry, the above could be clarified and made useful, but it needs a bit of massaging. In the mean time, I've replaced the article with a much shorter, but hopefully slightly more clear, description of Fichte's importance to German idealism. MRC

[edit] Schopenhauer

I would be interested to know more about Schopenhauer's description of a second, absolute consciousness. It may come as a surprise that I cannot find mention of such an activity in any of Schopenhauer's writings. Lestrade 15:39, 5 October 2005 (UTC)Lestrade

That mention could mean Schopenhauer's 'will' considered as a universal force rather than a direct relation to an individual ego. Nagelfar 21:27, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

In the third paragraph, under the category "Life and Work", the page gives a misleading representation of Fichte's influence on Schopenhauer. Schopenhauer called Fichte the father of "sham philosophy" in Book II, chapter I of "The World as Will and Representation." Aside from such rhetorical attacks, it is also clear that they differ philosophically in that Schopenhauer acknowledged the noumenon while Fichte did not. For Sch., "The Will" is the noumenon, a.k.a. the thing-in-itself.

So when it says, "In fact, Fichte achieved fame for originating the argument that consciousness is not grounded in anything outside of itself. This notion eventually became the defining characteristic of German Idealism and thus an essential underpinning to understanding the philosophies of Hegel, and of Arthur Schopenhauer . . . " This was not an essential underpinning of Sch.'s philosophy. --68.35.182.188 01:42, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Self-consciousness

I added a section about Fichte's theory of self-consciousness being a social phenomonon. It was a little hard to sum up without going into a lot of detail so it might be a little too hazy or vague.

[edit] To add

http://www.u.arizona.edu/~shaked/Holocaust/lectures/lec4.html German nationalism burdened with a romantic quixotic aspect was founded by Johann Gottlieb Fichte. in 1807 -romantic nationalism; proclaimed German ethos to be the seedbed for human perfection; argued against Jewish emancipation. 1808: delivered series of ‘Addresses to the German Nation,’ rallied German-speaking people to resist French, & spoke of the superiority of the Germans. Anti-intellectual, anti-democratic sentiment woven into German fabric; destructive chauvinism http://www.ajr.org.uk/pastjournal52.htm Fichte, a fervent democrat, excluded Jews from equality. http://members.surfbest.net/shsaltzman/Dawidowicz.html Called the father of German nationalism, Fichte has also been called the father of modern German anti_Semitism. His celebration of German nationalism was matched by his denigration of Jews. In 1793 he had argued against Jewish emancipation, characterizing the Jews as a state within a state that would undermine the German nation. Jewish ideas were as obnoxious as French ideas. The only way in which he could concede giving rights to Jews, he said, would be "to cut off all their heads in one night, and to set new ones on their shoulders, which should contain not a single Jewish idea." --Molobo 10:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC) Also a quote regarding his desire to comitt ethnic cleansing is here: [1] --Molobo 10:37, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Molobo is an expert on anti-isms, especially its practical appliance, as shown in his contribs to Wikipedia. --Matthead 22:09, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Obscure Reasons

The section "Life and work" claims that Fichte published his first work anonymously for obscure reasons. This seems naïve to me. It is obvious that Fichte mimicked Kant's style and hoped to deceptively sell the book to people who thought that they would be reading Kant. The book would not have had many sales if published with an unknown author's name.Lestrade 15:18, 26 October 2006 (UTC)Lestrade

I changed the section. I'm not perfectly clear on all of the details of Fichte's life, but the claim that Kant rejecting Fichte's request for a loan caused a feud does not seem to appear in any of the secondary literature. The Intro to the Attempt (and the Intro to the EPW) claims that Fichte sent the manuscript to Kant in order to pursue Kant's acquaintance after a first interview went poorly. He copied Kant's style, partially to exhibit his mastery of Kant's terminology, and partly to suck up. Kant enjoyed and approved of the work and began speaking to him. Fichte did ask for a loan, and Kant did not give him any money, but he told him to publish the Attempt, hooked him up with his publisher, and when the censors and publisher negotiations went slowly, Kant got Fichte a job as a tutor. Relations did break down later, but I sort of thought that was during the Atheism Controversy.
Anyway, the previous content was a feasible enough reconstruction of what happened, but I've never heard any published source make those claims.Hansonfan 04:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] anti semitism

I took the liberty to correct the sentence: "In regards to Jews getting 'rights' he wrote.." to include a more complete quote ("civil rights"). In fact Fichte wrote: "Human rights they must have, though they they don't concede those to us; because they are humans and their injustice does not give us the right to become like them... But to give them civil rights I see no means but to cut off all their heads in one night, and to set new ones on their shoulders, which should contain not a single Jewish idea"


To the above poster: please sign your statements. In any event, someone has obviously reverted your correction, it seems that the facts don't matter. I added a citation tag to the statement that Fichte had a "deep impact" on the Neo-Nazi movement. It seems obvious that there is no link, other than Fichte's cultural anti-semitism (Neo-Nazi as in post-WWII? Why not Nazi? etc.), but I know better than to wade into these waters. To try to argue that anti-semitic doesn't automatically equate with Nazism (Fichte had been dead for a century) never gets very far on Wikipedia. 24.60.23.200 (talk) 15:59, 1 February 2008 (UTC)