User talk:Joeboy

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snoyes 16:44, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)

[edit] The appropriate use of word "Claim"

It is one thing to use the word "claim" when only one pov and only one version of events is available, it is completely different to use the word when multiple conflicting versions of the same story are being presented. In the former case you would indeed be correct, since using the qualifier there would only innappropriately lessen the impact of a what is being conveyed due to someone's pov. In the latter case however (which is where what we are arguing over would fall under) it is important to add a level of ambiguity to all of the versions of events in order to underscore the level of uncertainty that exists, if we used more concrete words it leads the reader to the conclusion that the article is simply stating that that particular version is what indeed happened, which means the article takes a pov, which is something an encyclopedia should never do.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 11:09, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I should also let you know that you are in danger of violating the 3RR rule on the Rachel Corrie article, if you revert one more time you could be blocked from editing wikipedia.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 11:13, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Moshe. Firstly thanks for reminding me of the 3RR rule, which to be honest I probably would have broken if you hadn't reminded me.
Regarding the dispute over saying/claiming, you seem to be trying to create an alternate set of rules to the ones at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Words_to_avoid#Claim . Do you think those rules doesn't apply here for some reason, or do you simply think the rules are wrong? The rules cite exceptions where the use of the word would be valid. Clearly this case is nothing like those exceptions, so the rules would seem to me to apply here. If you think the rules are wrong, then surely this is not the way to challenge them. --Joeboy 18:02, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
First of all, that is not a policy, it is a guideline, they are different things. A guideline is basically a suggestion and their pages really written with the same level of detail as the policy pages and are much less developed since they are not supposed to be followed to the letter. I also know for a fact that precedent dictates you add qualifiers when there are multiple conflicting versions of events.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 00:42, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Recent edits seem to have made the point moot, wrt this particular edit. If you disagree with the guidelines at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Words_to_avoid I would suggest raising it on page's discussion page. Thanks, --Joeboy 07:22, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Or maybe I could just apply it by a case per case basis exactly how I have been doing and what makes the most sense.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 05:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
If the existence of dissent is a good reason to use the word 'claim' rather than a more neutral word like 'say' then that seems like a fairly major omission in the guidelines. So we don't have to go through this dispute again, why not try to correct the guidelines so that they cover such cases? --Joeboy 08:39, 13 July 2006 (UTC)