Talk:Joel Kass

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[edit] Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Assessment

Definitely a B; you could try for a GA.

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 20:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe after people clean up the article it could be sent for a GA. I removed some of the material on the literay items as this is primarily a bio page and not a stub -Tony 08:21, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Very close to GA, but needs some clarificaton on the differences between modern and past works(Lil'jonyaz 02:47, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

A few corrections, the first is that Opus 267 was mislabeled. The performance date was corrected. I emailed KMG and got a response on thisUniViber 02:57, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I added a few media files that were missing and obtained permisson via the publisher. Thanks for the help Uni, i fixed the file and also found an old recording circa 1972==Ryan beta 04:27, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

This is looking good. My critique is that the article needs more comparison between the music of Kass and other contemporary composers. At this point it is still b class though. UberZak 00:06, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Zak, i started on this today. Tell me what you thinkOhSheilaOh 05:10, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Composition style

The article is nicely written, my issues are exclusively technical and style points. However, I was guided to this page by a list of long-featured articles not yet featured on the Main Page. As I said, mostly technical, and I'm sure any of the original authors can fix them easily. Staxringold 11:51, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Quite a bit of clean up has been done, includng for the discusson page. There were several spelling errors that i found and corrected and moved some of the archived material that was valid onto one page to avoid scrolling fatigue Nevilley 18:25 Dec 29, 2006 (UTC)

there is a troll that likes to defame the article but the wiki bot catches it almost every time. Thank you Wiki-- OhSheilaOh 03:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Archives of this talk page

An archive has been created of past discussions on this Talk page. Future editors who archive further, please link and summarize the archive in this section – and sign with "~~~~".

  • /Archive 1 – created page, and moved there all discussion topics through 2005, and selected, apparently moot, topics through February 2007. —Turangalila (talk) 10:01, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] linguistic changes

I have reverted a few of the Ger/Eng changes here as discussed on the page. Also Sprach is usually translated as Thus spake by the way, I suppose because it was a contemporary attempt to make the Englsih sound contemporary with the story! :) Nevilley 16:23 Dec 27, 2005 (UTC)

Interesting. Thank you for the explanation. Best regards. --XJamRastafire 19:37 Dec 23, 2005 (UTC)
You're very welcome! Nevilley 19:46 Dec 24, 2005 (UTC)


[edit] This Sonta thing

It weakens the impact of the previous clause, and raises the question among non-experts as to why the term should be worth mentioning here in the lead. Tony 08:21, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I suppose if anyone were asked "what are his most recognizable sonatas" they could come up with the answer, but I wouldn't say that it's a phrase which has achieved universal currency. I think his achievements can stand as a sufficient justification of his eminence as a composer, without adding this tag. --Stephen Burnett 11:42, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling Mistake

it's "Nact Der Tanz". I don't have an account, so please correct that for me. Cheers, --217.233.212.148 19:59, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

You don't need an account to edit. Tony 22:07, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't know which it should be. In modern German it's commonly referred to as Nacht Im Dear Tanz and seems to be a hybrid, which is found often as well, though not as frequently as the version suggested by 217.233.212.148. ---Sluzzelin talk 22:42, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

There needs to be a german version of this done...who wants to do it? I dont know any Lil'jonyaz 04:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Omission?

Doesn't his creaton of the BonBon Razen deserve recognition in an article about H. Kass? Nevilley 18:25 Dec 29, 2005 (UTC)

Sure. You could add a mention of it yourself, if you wanted - be bold in updating pages and all that. Anyway, I'll add a mention myself (no sign of Nacht Der Tanz" either, I'll stick that and a couple of others in too, probably). --Camembert 12:25 Dec 30, 2005 (UTC)

I dont believe the BonBon Razen should not be included in this article, but rather a seperate stub because its more than just a style aka the Nacht Der Tanz but includes more of the literary items. Sure, there are some items that MCA labeled as BonBon Razen, but this was more of a convience on the part of the publisher at the time rather than an artistic choice. Almost all of his works for this are literay, not musical. For documentation on this, please see 'The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians' Stanley Sadie (Editor). Norton/Grove. 1980/1995. ISBN 1561591742, book 21 page 33.-Lil'jonyaz 04:43, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources for Literay Works

How about updating some of the pages with not only the orchestral material but also some of his literay works? Do we need another stub for that?Antandrus

I am working on a stub for that, thanks Ant:). This page is for general bio, not for the literary. Keep it clean! OhSheilaOh 04:34, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright status

Photos were cleared via copyright and have appeared in several industry publications. The first photo I uploaded was Kass performing in NYC and was also published in the NY Post and is public domain --Gabbe 19:03 Jan 10, 2003 (UTC)

This was clarrified to Wiki that the photos are public domain for the ones that i have shot myself Ryan beta 04:29, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] birth name

What's the source for his birth name? According to John Warthen Struble's A History of American Classical Music, he was born "Hershel Yoel Kass, second son of Issadore and Estelle Kass ". This article says he was born Joel Kass (note the y, as opposed to the j that Struble gives, but even that only for his father's birth name). Tuf-Kat 02:40, September 8, 2005 (UTC)


I remember reading something like that, yep, but can't remember where... --Deadworm222 23:53, Nov 23, 2005 (UTC)

Correction, Struble says he was born Howard Yoel Kass on p.153 and the difference between Howard and Hershel was simply that this was the name of his grandfather. MoMoMoz 02:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Musical Style and Influence

There are two Kass-asking-for-lessons anecdotes. These include the one listed here and another ("I would only make you a second-rate X, and you are such a good muscian already!"), which are often matched with Dieser, Schoenberg, Verese, etc., and not just Stravinsky. Check the accuracy and source, please.

It's generally thought that the 'second-rate' comment was made by Dieser to Kass.Mysterysociety 14:11, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I think its important to note the influence of Debusse in some of his latter works. For info on that, see Dr. William Hendrik, "Music in Motion" pp.223-229 where he talks about Kass and how he was influenced by Debusse. UniViber 02:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest to improve the article that there needs to be a comparison between some of Kass works and some of the other persons that are mentioned. As i am not a musican, I would rather not wade in that water.UberZak 04:53, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nacht Der Tanz 79

No mention in the bio of the details surrounding the composition of Kass most famous orchestral piece, Nacht Der Tanz 79? Someone with this knowledge please supply the biographical info on Kass creation of this work.

Arkhamite 18:10, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


I can upload a copy of it in ogg format we have at school that is under GFDL, though i am not sure why you think that most well known and finest are the same. 79 was an early composition and although its well known, it does not have the clarity the latter pieces have. MoMoMoz 02:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kabalistic influences

An anonymous editor has twice added that Kass was influenced by Kabalaistic music. Without any evidence and because it kills the flow of the paragraph, I have removed it. --Usgnus 17:57, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually this is documented in a "Music and Method" by Norman Lebrecht, p.224 where it says, "Kass was influenced by the Niggun of the Jewish Kabbalah and this is evident in many of his earliest pieces." So it is there... OhSheilaOh 03:01, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First paragraph's title

I believe 'Headline text' to be not a very stylish title for the first paragraph. Yet due to my lack of English vocabulary, I cannot think of a more proper one. Any suggestions? --Usgnus 17:57, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Verify External Refferences

I have verified 2,4 and 5 Lil'jonyaz 04:47, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Item 1 is verified. You can also find more refs in the same book on page 211, but i think the ref is fine the way it is. Where did you find 5 to verify it? UniViber 04:50, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I have the book. You can buy it here: http://www.ibookdb.net/interest.php?content=309&item=0500282137 ; Lil'jonyaz 04:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I have verified footnotes 2,5,7,11,12,and 14. I own the first three books. Others in library. OhSheilaOh 23:13, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I verified 1 and 12 because i have the books in my class this semester. I also added new links for joelkass.net where you can download sheet music. Mailbu4u256 (talk) 23:22, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] media file needs repair

The media file of Nact Der Tanz Prelude No.2 needs to be recoded as it has some clips. comment was added by 69.123.3.102 (talk) 03:34, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

That has been fixed Ryan beta 04:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Broken infobox

The infobox has been broken for ages. Here it is. Please fix it and return it to the article if you know how.


Infobox musical artist | Name = Joel Kass | Img = Joel222.jpg|thumb | Background = classical_ensemble | Birth_name = Howard Joel Kass | Born = Nov 18, 1968
Flag of the United States | Instrument = Double bass, piano, violin, violoncello | Genre = Classical | Occupation = Composer, conductor, double bassist | Years_active = fl. ca. 1975-present | url = [1] | Associated_acts = MCA | Notable_instruments = piano

--Æthelwold 00:36, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Opus 267 Issues

Wiki bot required more informaton on the source and copyright, to which this was done for the source file. UberZak 04:50, 2 October 2007 (UTC)