User talk:Jimp/Archive V

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[edit] Reversion of WP:MOSNUM

A couple weeks ago, you undid a revision I made in WP:MOSNUM with the summary "undiscussed instruction creep - why not use the symbols? they look a whole lot better to me." I wanted to point out that this was neither "undiscussed" nor "instruction creep". The fact is that this was already in the MOS under WP:MSM#Superscripts_and_subscripts and exists for a number of reasons. It was simply copied over to MOSNUM for consistency's sake. However, to answer your question directly, the reasons the symbols should not be used are:

  1. The symbols do not look the same as any other superscripts. There is no reason why there should be two different superscript formats - one for 2 and 3, and another for all others.
  2. While it may be easier for you to read, that is not universally the case. Many fonts do not display these symbols properly. Some fonts do not support these symbols at all. (In my case, for example, the symbol for superscript 2 and 3 are almost indistinguishable.)
  3. Most screen readers for the blind do not recognize the symbol, but most will recognize the superscript properly.

At any rate, I hope you now understand that the instruction was not arbitrary, but designed to maximize accessibility to Wikipedia, which is what the Manual of Style is all about. -- ShinmaWa(talk) 01:23, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. It might well be noted that the section you've linked to deals specifically with superscripts and subscripts within the context of typesetting of mathematical formulae. By copying it over to MOSNUM you very much broaden its scope. This broadening of scope entailed the addition of rules which had not been discussed on WT:MOSNUM. Viewed in this light, is my labelling it as "undiscussed instruction creep" inaccurate?
"The symbols do not look the same as any other superscripts", no, and I would therefore suggest that they not be used together. Whilst this may be reason enough to rule them out in the context of mathematical formulae wherein any arbitary super- or subscript may be encountered, I see no cause here to extend this beyond this context. Specifically, when it comes to units of measurement in ordinary non-scientific/technical prose superscript 2 and 3 are quite common (owing, of course, to the fact that we live in a universe of three spatial dimentions) whereas other superscripts are rare enough to be safely ignored.
Yes, they do look different, <sup>2</sup> and <sup>3</sup> distort a line of text whereas the pre-made symbols do not. I don't believe anyone is suggesting that there should be one superscript format for 2 and 3, and another for all others. Use what fits best in the context. You do make a good point about readability in other fonts & by screen readers. Jɪmp 03:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I certainly understand where you are coming from. I've always considered there to be a single Manual of Style of which the various subpages are merely sections, which should be consistent with each other. One of the stated goals of the Manual of Style is to maintain consistency. If the Manual is inconsistent with itself, then the Manual has failed in its goal. Since there was a discussion of the super- and subscripts in MSM, and the consensus there was not based purely on mathematical concepts (with the notable exception of the LaTeX rendering), I feel the discussion was in the scope of the general Manual of Style. In that light, I don't feel I've broken any scope. However, I readily admit that both of our points of view are completely understandable. -- ShinmaWa(talk) 22:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree whole-heartedly with the view that there is but one "Manual of Style of which the various subpages are merely sections, which should be consistent with each other." I am, however, of the view that that consistency should spread from the more general page(s) to the more specific. That is consensus reached on the talk page of a sub-manual should be secondary to that reached on WT:MOS not the other way around. The discussion on the sub-manual talk page may have had a more general scope but until it's carried out on talk page the more general manual I don't believe it's incorrect to target it as "undiscussed". Moreover, I don't see inconsistency in allowing something in one context and disallowing it in another. I'd also admit that your point of view is completely understandable, though. Jɪmp 01:23, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Trying it again at Talk:MOSNUM

I wanted to give you a heads up that I’ve transplanted the most important parts from my talk page to here at Talk:MOSNUM. Hope to see you there. Greg L (my talk) 20:06, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:Enginote

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[edit] TfD nomination of Template:Converta

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[edit] Beware of NIST Special Publication 330

It turns out you're right, the prefix deca is used outside the US and deka is used inside the US. Unfortunately, NIST Special Publication 333 has it wrong in it's forward on page iii, which says

The spelling of English words is in accordance with the United States Government Printing Office Style Manual, which follows Webster’s Third New International Dictionary rather than the Oxford Dictionary. Thus the spellings “meter,” “liter,” and “deca” are used rather than “metre,” “litre,” and “deka” as in the original BIPM English text

--Gerry Ashton (talk) 06:30, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

That is strange. Jɪmp 06:33, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:LDS Temple list/size-height-site

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[edit] AfD nomination of Graeme Johnston

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[edit] How do we move forward?

Jimp, it looks like the voting at Talk:MOSNUM is going well enough that it’s logical to wonder how one actually gets a {delimitnum} parser function made. From your earlier posts on my talk page it appears that pulling this off with a template will be tough; what with complex logic and numeric values that may occasionally exceed 12 digits. You’ve written that parser functions/magic words are the method that will best handle this. Those are apparently written by “developers” (the programmers who make Wikipedia’s magic all possible). Do you know how we go forward? Is there someone at MOSNUM who tends to such matters and sees to it that “developer issues” are kicked up the ladder and addressed? Is that person you? And when would you know when to move forward? Is there a caretaker on Talk:MOSNUM who would advise you as to timing? Greg L (my talk) 23:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A more inclusive wiki for bios

Hi Jimp,

I see that you've been very active in Wikipedia, and not only with writing articles. As one of your articles are currently under review for deletion on the grounds of non-notability, I wanted to suggest that you consider transferring it to Wikipopuli, a wiki that I set up to host biographical articles without a notability requirement. Indeed, given your level of experience in the wiki world, I'd be grateful for any feedback you care to give on the site. We could use someone with your experience! Thanks TheYellowCabin (talk) 02:50, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:^/10

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[edit] Foot pound force page

Hi Jimp, This is Greg Glover

I come to you for some help. I hope you can help me or refer me to the party that can. I have had several discussions with Rracecarr concerning several different articles. However it seems he finds it necessary to delete anything I post within Wikipedia on the pages that discuss old English units of measure (i.e. foot-pound force). It seems he has deleted your and others work as well. I’m all for making something better, but to be honest; I believe his work and postings are counter productive.

Without taking up a bunch of your time and space, can you advise me on how we can make the Foot-pound force article more reader friendly with have to revert to whole sale deletions? If not, I think it may be time for an intermediary.

Thank you Greg Glover (talk) 16:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:US oz to ml

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[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:US oz to ml/1

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[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:US oz to ml/0

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[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:US oz to ml/2

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[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:US pt to ml

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[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:Unit of length/BigsmalllP

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[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:Unit of length/SI3

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[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:Unit of length/SIcm

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[edit] Adminship?

Ever consider it? Having administrator access would benefit you. If interested or not, contact me via email to discuss it further. —MJCdetroit (yak) 00:44, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] lb•ft vs. ft•lbf

10-4, roger, got it, thanks. —Scheinwerfermann (talk) 18:42, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] AfD nomination of Varieties of Australian English

An editor has nominated Varieties of Australian English, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not").

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[edit] Unit templates

I've noticed you have been adding metric to imperial numbers. Thanks for the hard work. Something that might make it easy... I've got templates for all the conversions you've been doing. Go to my user page and look at the tempates there. They are cut and paste, then plug in the appropriate numbers. Remember to keep imperial numbers first in the case of American-developed cartridtges, Metric in the case of all others including NATO standards like the 7.62 and 5.56 NATO's. --Asams10 (talk)

[edit] Deadweight tonnage, round two

As the discussion at WP:MOSNUM seems to have swerved about a bit, I put together the beginnings of a template {{DWT|number|unit|first}} in hopes that it might meet most requirements. I thought I'd give you a heads up in case you're still interested. I'll post over at WP:MOSNUM later on. Best. HausTalk 22:21, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] sandbox

it's fine. what's important is that User:Twinkletester be the one who "created" (according to the page history) the sandbox, since the creator gets warnings from deletion scripts like twinkle, and you haven't changed that. —Random832 04:01, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:MOSNUM: {{delimitnum}} template

I just wanted to make you aware that I made a post here on Talk:MOSNUM regarding the new {{delimitnum}} template. See you there. Greg L (my talk) 22:11, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re your edits to Template:Infobox UK place

Hi, I'm not sure what you did, but since you made your edits to the above template it doesn't display correctly. I think you may have missed out a }} somewhere along the line. -- Roleplayer (talk) 01:20, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Nope, still something missing somewhere. -- Roleplayer (talk) 01:27, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi - have you seen Template:Infobox UK place/Test? It may be the ideal place to try out improvements to the infobox, without having to worry about affecting its display on thousands of articles. Warofdreams talk 01:46, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello there! I have every faith you're working on something that improves the infobox, but it might be more courteous to breifly explain what it is you're changing and/or trying to achieve on the talk page too. Would that be possible at all? --Jza84 |  Talk  01:59, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
You appear to have left the template broken - os_grid_reference field is no longer being displayed.Dallan72 (talk) 06:39, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
And there's an extra "}}" appearing at the end of it - I've just spent time trying to work out how Leeds had been messed up before realising it was a template problem! Perhaps the sugestion about sandbox might be right. But thanks for your work on this useful template. PamD (talk) 08:18, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for reverting. Please do use Template:Infobox UK place/Test until you have a stable version. Agathoclea (talk) 08:24, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Convert/and/lbs‎

I created this template many months ago, I wasn't aware it was in use. Looking through it has been reactivated after an edit from Alexsanderson83.Londo06 16:22, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:Centurynum/following

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Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:34, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:Centurynum/mth

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[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:Centurynum/nth

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[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:Centurynum/previous

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[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:Centurynum/th

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