From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If I left you a message: please answer on your talk page, then place {{Talkback}} on my talk. If you leave me a message: I will answer on my talk page, then place {{Talkback}} on your talk. Please click here to leave me a new message.

* When you place the tag {{Talkpage}} on my Talkpage, in fact, you have to put (at the top of the page): {{Talkback|your_username}}

Contents 1 Messages 1.1 Re: Edit War 1.2 Your VandalProof Application 1.3 Non-English versions of the Simpsons 1.4 Quebec French

[edit] Messages

[edit] Re: Edit War

First stating that it's Canadian is needed in the first paragraph as that is the norm for all/most other articles regarding tv series regardless whether it is in the info box or not. Secondly, it's perfered to use the overall French language rather then Quebec French, if you want I would accept French language . 99.236.63.51 (talk) 23:42, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your VandalProof Application

Thank you for your interest in VandalProof, Jimmy Lavoie. As you may know, VP is a very powerful program, and in fact the just released 1.3 version has even more power. Because of this we must uphold strict protocols before approving a new applicant. Regretfully, I have chosen to decline your application at this time. The reason for this is that:

You do not yet have enough edits in the main namespace.

Please note it is nothing personal by any means, and we certainly welcome you to apply again soon. Thank again for your interest in VandalProof. Ale_Jrb^talk 07:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Non-English versions of the Simpsons

Why?! It's not a vandalism! --Jaro7788 (talk) 05:52, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Quebec French

I've reverted your change. I feel saying Québécois instead of "Quebecers" in an article about Quebec French is like saying repeatedly "WASP Americans" or perhaps "English-speaking Americans" instead of "Americans" in an article about American English, with the additional disadvantage of being vague. It unnecessarily introduces imprecise ethnic connotations. Joeldl (talk) 04:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, that is true. It was a surprise to me to learn that Québécois in English is widely used as being synonym with "French Canadians of Quebec". Some, for political reasons, go as far as to say that this is what the word also generally means in the French language, which is patently false.

While for sure there are a lot of English speakers who, perhaps because of their awareness of Quebec's history and culture, think of "Quebecers" and Québécois as essentially synonymous, one being the translation of the other, much like French/Français, Canadian/Canadien or American/Américain, the political climate (and maybe the absence of a true and respectful dialogue across languages) in Quebec and Canada has charged the word Québécois, when used in an English sentence, with much vagueness, to say the least, as Joeldl explains.

It is my opinion presently, after a few years of experience on Wikipedia, that the the French word Québécois is better left translated as "Quebecer" and, unless with mean to refer to French-speaking Quebecers as a distinct group among the super-group of all Quebecers, we should avoid Québécois. In fact, even in this case, we really should say "French-speaking Quebecers" or "Francophone Quebecers" anyway, for it is much clearer, and use Québécois strictly when saying for example: "In French, Quebecers is Québécois. The majority of Quebecers being French-speaking, the majority of Quebecers refer to themselves as Québécois.

It is true however that as an adjective, the word "Quebecer" cannot be used without breaking some unwritten rule of the English language. We therefore must use "Quebec", which somehow doesn't always sound appropriate. What can we do: natural languages were never meant to be perfect. They all have their weird quirks. ;-) -- Mathieugp (talk) 13:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Maybe I should better explain why it is unnecessary to specify "francophone" here. Most people would write

Canadians say "running shoes", not "sneakers" or "trainers"

in an article on Canadian English, rather than writing "English Canadians" everywhere. Similarly, I would write

Canadians say "échalotes", not "oignons jeunes."

Many English-speakers might instinctively feel the need to write "French Canadians" here, but I disagree with them. (Writing "French Canadian" in one case and just "Canadian" in the other would disregard the dual nature of Canada, in my opinion.)

In any event, in the case of Quebec, specifying "francophone Quebecer" or "Québécois" is even less necessary than specifying "English Canadian" would have been in the "running shoes" example, because francophones are more of a majority in Quebec than English Canadians are in Canada. Joeldl (talk) 13:45, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I see. By the way, concerning English language in Quebec, I want you to know that we use, most of the time, American expressions rather than Canadian expressions (currently, my Firefox dictionary is set on "American English" :-P). I learned English and the biggest influence we get is the one from USA. We love USA. ;-) As you saw, I like to share my culture, hehe. ;-) Jimmy Lavoie × Vive le Québec libre! ^talk 21:42, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I don't know about you, but I'm an anglophone Quebecer and I say:

running shoes, not sneakers

expressway, not freeway

zed, not zee,

sofa, not couch

soft drink, not soda or pop

all dressed

And many more words. All of these are typically Canadian or even in some cases mainly Quebec words, or at least are more common in Canada than in the US.

Also, unlike most Americans and even other Canadians, Quebecers pronounce marry differently from merry. (In the US, I always find it hilarious when a guy called Aaron introduces himself as "Erin.") And like many Canadians, I don't rhyme news and snooze. And just to be fair to Americans (at least those across the border in Plattsburgh), they distinguish between cot and caught whereas most Canadians (including virtually all Montrealers) don't. The one thing is, I've never pronounced "schedule" as "shedule" like Peter Mansbridge, only as "skedule".

You're seriously underestimating the extent to which Montrealers are like other Canadians. To be honest, some of these differences between Canadians and Americans are fading, but not much faster in Montreal than in Toronto. See [1] and [2] for examples.

I say highway, pop and couch, running shoes, zed, and all dressed. You'd have to break my arm to make me say zee or soda. Nevertheless, I'd say my English is probably more Canadian than American because most of the English speakers I interacted with were Canadians. I guess it is a question of the milieu in which you do your immersion. -- Mathieugp (talk) 12:40, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Quebec and Saskatchewan seem to be just about the only places in the world people say "all dressed". Joeldl (talk) 14:46, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I learned and I use "couch" (not "sofa"), "sneakers" and sometimes "running shoes", "pop" and "soft drink", "highway", etc. But I pronounce "schedule" as "skedule". I suppose it depends on the region you're living and where you learned English (I did in Lac-Saint-Jean). From which region are you from? Jimmy Lavoie × Vive le Québec libre! ^talk 21:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)