Talk:Jim Thorpe

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Contents

[edit] Childhood

Hmmm... looks like we should probably find something more about his childhood and about his life after Stockholm (he was one of the early stars of the National Football League), and a picture might be nice too. - jredmond 03:39, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I believe some of the facts are mistaken. I have read from several sources that he was 5'11'' 180 in his 1912 football season and that his mother was 1/4 french. I will try to find where I have read that before, i think it was on espn--not sure. Anyone know the source of his height and wieght in the article?
--NoYes 05:30, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I think the link to pentathlon in the article might be confusing - I don't think the events were the same as in the ancient pentathlon, I suspect they were all track and field events. A google search suggests they were long jump, 200m sprint, discus, javelin and 1500m. Average Earthman 12:23, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This article now reads,
A pentathlon based on the ancient Greek event had been organized at the 1906 Summer Olympics, but the 1912 edition would consist of the long jump, the javelin throw, 200-meter dash, the discus throw and the 1500-meter run.
The modern pentathlon, which consists of running, swimming, shooting, equestrian and fencing, was begun by the Baron de Coubertin in 1912, which I believe he intended to replace the pentathlon of ancient Greece. I've never heard anything about this other pentathlon, the one Thorpe is reported to have won. Taco Deposit 14:13, Aug 13, 2004 (UTC)
Well, he definitely won it, the IOC website says he did. Unfortunately, they don't say what events were actually in it. There is [one website] which has a biography of Thorpe on it that lists the five events, but I'd rather get some firmer evidence for it than rely on something someone has written on a webpage with no cites. The BBC has on more than one occasion said the pentathlon Thorpe won contained the events in the Modern Pentathlon, but they're wrong - the IOC website itself gives one Gosta Lilliehook as the winner of the Modern Pentathlon, and the Pentathlon Thorpe won is listed under the Athletics category. Average Earthman 15:13, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Gosta Lillehook won the first Olympic 'Modern' pentathlon, and this Jim Thorpe article seems correct. In 1912, 1920 and 1924 there were two pentathlons at the Olympic games. One was the 'modern' and the other the 'traditional' (athletics) pentathlon. In addition the athletics pentathlon was replaced with the decathlon. The modern pentathlon was not to replace the athletics version it was a new independent event. Pentathlon (athletics version) results can be found at http://www.gbrathletics.com/ic/ogm.htm and can be viewed in the table below.
Event: Gold: Silver: Bronze:
1906# Hjalmer Mellander SWE 24 István Mudin HUN 25 Eric Lemming SWE 29
1908 not held
1912 Jim Thorpe USA &
Ferdinand Bie NOR		 7*
21		 James Donahue USA 29 Frank Lukeman CAN 29
1920 Eero Lehtonen FIN 14 Everett Bradley USA 24 Hugo Lahtinen FIN 26
1924 Eero Lehtonen FIN 14 Elemér Somfay HUN 16 Robert LeGendre USA 18
Note# -The events in the athletic pentathlon were long jump, javelin, 200 metres, discus, 1500 metres although in 1906 the more traditional greek events were contested, standing long jump, discus (greek style), javelin, 192 metres (one stade), graeco-roman wrestling.
Note*-Jim Thorpes Olympic results were re-instated in 1982. David D. 20:55, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

While I cannot offer any sources, I remember with pretty good confidence, from reading a young-adult book about Thorpe which was definitely written before 1980, that all his events at the 1912 Olympics were track and field. (There was an anecdote about how his entire preparation for the long jump consisted of making some chalk marks on the pavement.) I don't have the book any longer, but it made a great impression on me and I reread it many times. So consider this corroborating evidence that his pentathalon was not the "Modern" version.

Rpresser 00:53, 2004 Aug 27 (UTC)

[edit] Thorpe first president of NFL

I don't understand what the "NFL Presidents" table at the end of the "Reinstated" section is supposed to be. Can someone clarify this? -Aaron jul 18 2005

It appears to refers to the fact that he was the first president. He was followed by xxx and preceded by no one since he was the first. I think it should be in the football baseball section since there is says Thorpe was named the APFA's first president, Or is it meant to be a footer? Also the table would make more sense if Thorpes name was actually in the table. Don't ask me how to fix it I'm not sure how this kind of table works. It seems to get it's data from information that is stored somewhere else in wikipedia. David D. 04:26, 19 July

[edit] Mach Chunk

I always thought Jim Thorpes Indian name was Mauch Chunk?2005 (UTC)--User talk:Scottfisher Thanks, Scotty

No, Mauch Chunk (see the wikiarticle) was the name of the town in PA that was renamed "Jim Thorpe" in his honor.--BillFlis 21:19, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] knocking the crap out of a future President

Future President Dwight Eisenhower injured his knee trying to tackle Thorpe during that game.

Eisenhower recalled of Thorpe in a 1961 speech. "Here and there, there are some people who are supremely endowed," "My memory goes back to Jim Thorpe. He never practiced in his life, and he could do anything better than any other football player I ever saw."[1][2]

[edit] Greatest

I've moved the following from the article page because it is an opinion, not a fact, and is unsourced.

Jim Thorpe is considered to be one the three greatest athletes of the 20th Century next to Muhammed Ali and Michael Jordan. And the greatest during the first half of the century.

-- Dalbury(Talk) 23:00, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] World Famous Indians Basketball

Image:Jim Thorpe WFI PC front detail.jpg

It's not entirely true that Thorpe's World Famous Indian teams - including basketball - were unknown until 2005 - perhaps it should say that "until 2005 most of Thorpe's biographers were unaware of Thorpe's basketball career." My father, Hap Moran often told stories of playing a few games with this team and after he died in 1994 I was in contact with Grace Thorpe, Jim's daughter, and through her with Robert Whitman, who wrote "Jim Thorpe and the Oorang Indians, the NFL's Most Colorful Franchise" in 1984. Whitman knew about the World Famous Indian Basketball team and referred me to the Marion County Historical Society which had a file of clippings on the team. I published an article in the newsletter of the Professional Football Researchers Association in 1999 that mentioned the team based on my father's stories and the material in the Marion Historical Society. Revmoran 00:12, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately for your recollections, material added to Wikipedia must be verifiable by being published in reliable sources. A newsletter of an association may well be challenged by some editors as not being 'published', or not being a 'reliable source'. -- Donald Albury 00:44, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Thorpe's image in his World Famous Indians basketball uniform was distributed to the press and available on postcards. Here is a detail. Would it be a good addition to the article? Revmoran 00:06, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I will (at a late date) add my support for Remorvan's arguments. Thorpes basketball activity is well known to sports authorities. Part of the problem is that PBS' History Dectives television sho did a story in 2006 (or 2005) where they research a basketball ticket bought on ebay. The trumped up the "Undiscovered nature" of Thorpe's basketball career when in fact it was well documented in newspapers from the 1920s. Stude62 02:04, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
It's already in the article using almost Moran's exact wording and backed up by a source. Quadzilla99 14:02, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Item moved from article

I have noved this statement, "That is why Steve O'Neal owns the record with his 98 yard punt," from the article page because the citation request ({{cn}}) was removed from it without any attempt to provide a citation. Per Wikipedia policies, this item may not be re-added to the article until and unless a citation to a reliable published source is provided. -- Donald Albury 00:04, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Featured Article Review

I have listed this article on the Featured Article Review page; see its entry here for my reasoning. Please help to improve the article if you can and to give your views on the article's FAR page. Thanks, --Miskwito 03:54, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Was he in a movie or not?

In the "later life" section, it says "Reportedly he had an uncredited cameo as an assistant sports coach in the Warner Brothers movie Jim Thorpe -- All-American (1951)," In the "legacy" section, it says "Thorpe was seen in some long shots in the film.". Which of these two is correct? If the second is right, shouldn't "reportedly" be removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.167.162.174 (talk) 15:39, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Info removed in lieu of sources

I removed the following info in lieu of sources. As I found no references to it in either my extensive collection of football history books, The New York Times extensive archives, or online:

  • "In 1923 Thorpe kicked what would be a record 99 yard punt. However, at this point in the history of the NFL such records were not kept. That is why Steve O'Neal owns the record with his 98 yard punt." Google results:[3] (four out of the fives are mirrors despite excluding Wikipedia and the third is a forum I believe) NYT archives:[4] In case you're wondering the dash makes no difference. Quadzilla99 11:43, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
    • "...while another poll elected him as the best football player over the same period." I removed this also, I have no idea who conducted this poll or what it was named. Quadzilla99 12:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC) re-inserted with source. Quadzilla99 13:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
      • I don't remember the exact wording but there was a sentence in there attributing his divorce from his wife to alcoholism. I removed it in lieu of a source. Quadzilla99 16:05, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
        • "Some accounts suggest that Hiram Thorpe had five different wives and produced a total of 19 children, of which no fewer than eleven were with Vieux." Ditto. Quadzilla99 16:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)