Talk:Jews and Judaism in the African diaspora

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Jews and Judaism in the African diaspora article.
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This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:
The contents of List of Black Jews were merged into Jews and Judaism in the African diaspora on 8 July 2007 and they now redirect here. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history; for its talk page, see here
The contents of List of Jewish African-American entertainers were merged into Jews and Judaism in the African diaspora on 2 September 2007 and they now redirect here. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history; for its talk page, see here

Contents

[edit] Comment

04:16, 8 October 2006 (UTC)68.253.254.196Google for Black Jews, this article seems to be a pride article with a long list. Very questionable, and would consider deleting. I added some information about the real Black Jews (the religious movement) which needs to be expanded, but the list came before and it's not clear whether they are mainstream Jews, Jews by association (hereditary but many are not practicing and do not identify as Jewish), or part of the Black Jews movement.

[edit] This is not a disambig page

This is not a disambig - it's an article. I will remove the {{disambig}} if there are no objections.--Commander Keane 16:54, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] merge

The Black Hebrews section should really be merged with the Black Hebrews article, and mentioned here only in passing, as they are far from the only group of Black Jews, claimed or recognized as such. TomerTALK 04:39, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] African American?

Why is this part of African American topics? Isn't this first and formost a black topic. There's always this will of dividing black people into small groups. Doesn't this concern the rest of the "black world", in the Caribbean, Brazil and Africa. There's a few jews in Africa as well, hence this shouldn't be a stricly African American topic.

As "black" is an adjective, I would say this is first and foremost a Jewish topic, which is why I made the recommendation I made in the section ("merge") above. Tomertalk 02:30, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] They are different

First, "black jews" are any Jew that happens to be black.

The "Black Hebrews" are specific group of people.

No merge.

talk 02:30, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Black Jews / List of Black Jews

Black Jews / List of Black Jews look a lot like one another right now. There should be one page that is a Template:disambig for "Black Jews" and one page that is an actual list for "List of Black Jews," with a Template:dablink at the top. Someone mind doing the cutting, pasting, comparing, and alphabetizing? —  <TALKJNDRLINETALK>    

[edit] Mothers Line

Judaism is matriarchal. You can only be a Jew via the female line if not converted, and those listed as Jews via their fathers cannot be called Jews. Dainamo 12:25, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


How do you know that modern Jews are even related to ancient Hebrews? Today, there are no people Hebrew by blood. Most to all are European converts. Judaism now, is a practice, not a race.

--Vehgah 02:08, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think you know much about Jews. For instance, cohanim from India to Ethiopia to Miami have specific genes in common. This is because the only way to be a cohen is to be descended from one. It is true that a good chunk of the Ashkenazi Jewish population is from European conversion (much less than half, though), but I don't really see how that pertains to the subject of Black Jews. anon

It doesn't pertain to the article, just the list of so-called "black jews". For clarity I am describing what Judaism defines as a Jew. Unless convereted you are not a Jew if your mother was not one I'm not sure of the correct term, but Afro-Hebrew sounds good but unlikely. I rather suspect it would be more correct to stick to the national origins of the Jewish dexcent e.g. Polish, Israeli etc. Dainamo 17:30, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2 Lists

there are 2 lists of black jews. the one in this article and the one that this article refers to. there differ. can someone fix this? and shouldn't we just have one list, so that we do not have to update both lists all of the time?

Thoughts???????????????

Tx.

--Epeefleche 22:31, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adding place-holder heading

I added a heading of "Types" over the "Mainstream Judaism / Beta Israel" and "" sections. I don't think "Types" is the best choice, but the two sections needed something to contain them (as they weren't quite appropriate to upgrade to level 2 heads). Feel free to change it. EVula 17:26, 6 September 2006 (UTC)



It seems like there is a problem with the truth about Jacob and Esau(Edom). What is the true race or should I say color of the Hebrews during the time of Moses and the Egyptian's Pharoah mix up. The holy bible isn't blasphemous about the truth about Israel and God's chosen people. That's why white christians try to keep the world and the black american race out of the old testament studies by verbally blaspheming the lord's commandments. I know who you are Esau(Edom), and Jesus Knows too. Revalation 2:9

Peace be unto all nations in Jesus name one of the "lost tribes of JUDAH"

[edit] Rabbi Regina Smith?

Who is regina smith? Google only turns up one hit (wikipedia) for "Rabbi regina smith." Though there are several for rabbi "regina smith," none seem to indicate a notable black jew. Anyone have any sources for this? Avraham 05:17, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lemba

Why does this page not mention the Lemba? 83.67.215.251 18:42, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright violation

An anonymous editor dumped material from Zimbabwe’s “Black Jews” and The Story of the Lemba People into this article today. Since the material was copied directly from those sources, I had to delete it.

If anybody has any questions, please read WP:COPYVIO and post any further questions here. Thanks. — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 18:22, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] the first statement

"black jews are jews who are black"

thank you, captain obvious, did you also know that black jews are blacks who are jews? no? well now you do, and i guess you should add that as the second statement.....please consider revising that first statement —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.146.150.24 (talk) 20:33, May 23, 2007

Done. — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 02:13, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge from List of Black Jews

Given the current length of the list of Black Jews, I think it would be appropriate to merge the content of the list into this article under a section titled "Notable Black Jews" or the like. Any thoughts? -- Black Falcon (Talk) 07:15, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

  • support considering the size of the list. Also would be consistent with Black Muslims--SefringleTalk 06:47, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notable Black Jews

Jewish African Americans is similar to List of Black Jews, which was merged into this article recently. I propose that Jewish African Americans be merged in as well. — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 19:09, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

  • I support the proposed merge. The list of Jewish African Americans consists of only 4 members, one of whom is already noted in this article. I see no reason why nationality (American) can't simply be noted after the name (e.g., "Sammy Davis, Jr. (1925–1990), American dancer and singer"). -- Black Falcon (Talk) 19:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
    • I support this as well, but please ensure that each insertion is properly sourced. Jayjg (talk) 19:18, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Support This definitely should be merged, no use having 2 pages for the same thing. Tyler Warren 04:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New title

I appreciate the consistency with Islam in the African Diaspora, but some of the "Black Jews" in the article aren't of African descent. Cochin Jews in southern India evidently are referred to as "Black Jews", but the descendants of more recent Jewish immigrants to that part of India (Paradesi Jews) are called "White Jews". I suppose we can just take them out of this article; they do have articles of their own. — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 05:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Prehaps we should move them to Paradesi Jews or Cochin Jews, or whatever article best describes them then. Yahel Guhan 00:30, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Since there can be a difference between people of Jewish heritage and those who practice Judaism, and since this article includes Black Hebrews who consider themselves Jews but are not of Jewish heritage nor do they practice normative Judaism, would anybody object to renaming this article "Jews and Judaism in the African diaspora" or "Judaism and Jews in the African diaspora"? — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 00:29, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm finding the discontinuity between the topic and the article to be fairly jarring. This covers far more groups than just African ones and doesn't go into any serious detail on what its topic implies. What I see is a set of mutually exclusive definitions of the term Black Jew, and without a very severe restructuring involving multiple articles maybe it should be called that again? -- Strangelv 11:14, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

You're right. Until very recently, this article was titled "Black Jews". The content hasn't been updated to reflect the new title and focus. — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 05:27, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] jewish slave owner?

slaves belonging to jews would have followed judaism? 61.95.13.82 15:00, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

In the American South, no. In the former Jewish colony in Suriname, I think yes, sort of.--Pharos 23:42, 28 October 2007 (UTC)