Talk:Jews Hill (Pittsburgh)

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Contents 1 Where? 2 Here 3 Hebrew on Miller Street 4 I am throwing in the towel 5 Crawford Square 6 YO 7 Fullerton Street 8 72 Miller Street 9 Czechoslovakia 10 Please do not recoil 11 My edit 12 Evidence? 13 Can you identify the emblem? 14 1920s 15 Admiral tavern

[edit] Where?

Where in the city is this located? — brighterorange (talk) 13:08, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Dude, I just totally figured out he is talking about the Hill District. This page is meant to make a point and to tell about a part of the history of The Hill District (but without references). Leondegrance 06:52, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Here

1000 Fifth Avenue is a building that is still standing. It is one block north of Duquesne University. The area sprawled eastwards from thereabouts where that building is located. The synagogue called "The Old Jewish Church" was located less than a one minute's walk across Fifth Avenue from 1000 Fifth Avenue.

The enormous parking lot situated between Washington Plaza (on Centre Avenue above Mellon Arena) and Connelley Vocational school was a bustling place at one time. Buildings along Fulton Street (true name, Fullerton Street) were demolished and that enormous parking lot replaced them. I intend to visit a Library to seek some information on Fulton Street. A streetcar line was probably in the middle of Fulton Street as late as 1950. Fulton Street intersected Centre Avenue across from the apartment building that is called Washington Plaza. Fulton Street parallelled Crawford Street which is the street that goes over to Connelley Vocational school.

Miller Street is a short street located two blocks above Washington Plaza on the same side of Centre Avenue. The surviving building which had been a synagogue is in fair condition. It has seen a great deal of social changes during its existence.

The former Russian church is located close to the former synagogue and is in plain view, being even closer to Washington Plaza and being equipped with a spire and a cross. It is now in poor condition, YO.

If you know where the "Civic Auditorium/Civic Arena/Mellon Arena" is located, you may be able to recognize Washington Plaza on Centre Avenue. Across the enormous parking lot above the arena where the Pittsburgh Penguins Hockey Club plays games, Connelley Vocational school is uphill from the Boy Scouts Plaza along Bedford Avenue.

By the way, I thought that a photograph was a good "reliable source" because "seeing is believing." "Jews Hill" was a colloquial expression that was similar to "Polish Hill" (which is still being spoken). It was not a formal or legal term. Locating a published "reliable source" may be impossible. HeyYallYo 02:24, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

If it's impossible to find a published source, this article will probably have to go. (Nothing personal, of course, it's just that we have rules to ensure that the encyclopedia remains neutral and free of original research; see WP:V). When was this term supposedly used? Are there old newspaper articles or anything like that? — brighterorange (talk) 15:32, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

HeyYallYo 02:38, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hebrew on Miller Street

A better photographer than me equipped with a better camera than the one that I own can capture a sharper image of the inscription. The inscription identified the Jewish congregation.

HeyYallYo 14:30, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I am throwing in the towel

I had been determined to make an effort to gather some information, but I have decided to quit this article. No more photographs and statements will be presented by me. I believe that I am wasting my time by attempting to re-construct history in Pgh. YO, no one can locate a "reliable source" for the term "African American"that is more than 30 years old. I hadn't heard that term until recently. Nevertheless, Wikipedia is powered by that term. Things related to "African Americans" are being invented, not revealed, YO.

HeyYallYo 01:53, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't really understand the complaint... your sources don't need to be 30 years old, they just need to be reliable, simply because we don't allow original research. — brighterorange (talk) 05:13, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Crawford Square

The article named Crawford Square had been written with a statement in it which went this way: It replaced "a dilapidated housing project." That was news to me since I had drank beer in several of the taverns which had stood at the place where Crawford Square was built. I had been inside of Saint Joseph's House of Hospitality, the Vann Hotel, and other buildings which once stood in the place which is now called "Crawford Square." It is possible that some ants or some other insects had owned "a dilapidated housing project" there, but not human beings. I made some corrections to the article named Crawford Square, however, they may not last very long. Wikipedia permits the re-designing of history.

Jews Hill is my explanation of why a Jewish synagogue is in a place where no Jews live. They used to live there is why. Darling's drug store was at 1401 Fifth Avenue until the 1990s. I am not practicing any "original research;" I am simply writing down facts. Talenfeld Real Estate was across the street (from Darling's drug store) and nearby. I saw Mr. Talenfeld numerous times; basically, he was a slumlord; I talked with Mrs. Talenfeld; she told me the name of her sister. That isn't "original research." The building that the Talenfelds managed has been turned into dust.

I am wasting too much time on Jews Hill. Correcting the statements in Crawford Square is more important to me. Wikipedia permits a person to overrule many others who have written statements which they know are factual. It only takes one teenaged recalcitrant to obliterate an article. I quit because I do not want to see my contributions removed by people who do not have any information. I have been cognizant of Wikipedia since 2004. I have seen it develop a group of overseers who have assumed the role of Board of Directors.

HeyYallYo 12:07, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, well, we are sorry to see you go, but Wikipedia's policies on original research and attribution are precisely designed to avoid the situation that is frustrating you: We require a statement like "it replaced a dilapidated housing project" to come with attribution to a reliable source. Otherwise, editors can disagree about "facts" and wind up re-designing history. Maybe it would be worthwhile to read up on verifiability before deciding to leave? — brighterorange (talk) 21:37, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Line feed added here.HeyYallYo 18:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Erudite teenagers on Wikipedia's Board of Directors will decide whatever appears in Wikipedia. Real truth is worthless. I created HeyYallYo to correct the idiotic nonsense that I had read in Crawford Square. I'm abandoning Jews Hill, but I will still be watching Crawford Grill and Crawford Square. There was no "attribution to a reliable source" in the Crawford Square article until I saw the nonsense and removed it. I'm not "frustrated" by the nonsense, I'm stunned by it. HeyYallYo 05:42, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] YO

Here is an image of a chapel on Webster Avenue in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The building features a Star of David. This is a building that was constructed when this area of the city of Pittsburgh was called "Jews Hill" by other residents of the city who lived elsewhere in their own section of the city. Jews did not call the area "Jews Hill;" other people who lived elsewhere in the city called it "Jews Hill" out of envy of Jews.

In 1868, a Jew named Rosenbaum had constructed the most impressive department store in downtown Pittsburgh. After 1920 another Jew named Edgar J. Kaufmann established his store. The Jewish presence in the city was prominently visible from the year 1868 and it spurred envy in others.

HeyYallYo 13:44, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fullerton Street

Fullerton Street paralleled Crawford Street which is much used in 2007. According to the 1920 R. L. Polk City Directory, a Jewish synagogue named Tipereth Israel was situated at Fullerton cor. Clark. Rabbi W. A. Kochin was its leader. At this time (2007), automobiles are parked there.

Other nearby synagogues included:

• Beth David — Miller cor Foreside
• Machsikei Hadas — Wylie Ave and Granville, Rabbi Saml Zahler
• Cher Chodosh — Reed nr Roberts, Rabbi Benj Bleiberg
• Paule Zedeck — Crawford nr Centre Av., Rabbi Joseph L. Alpert
• 

  

  25 Miller Street. Not Kanascis Israel originally. 72 Miller street still exists in 2007
  Kanascis Israel — 72 Miller
• Shaare Tfelo — Miller nr Centre Av., Rabbi Julius Bloom
• Shaare Torah — 29 Townsend, Rabbi Benj Miller
• Shaare Zedeck — 14 Townsend
• Tent of Jacob — Roberts cor. Centre Av.

• A place called Hebrew Mission was at 108 Fullerton.

Fullerton Street was not the only street to be obliterated. Townsend Street was turned into dust, too, along with numerous others. The parking lot in the photograph had been the site of various other streets, avenues, and alleys. I have seen old maps and charts of those streets.

The city directories by R. L. Polk are straight-forward, though, therefore the colloquialism "Jews Hill" may have not have ever appeared in print at any time.HeyYallYo 18:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

The one remaining synagogue was originally at 137 Washington Pl. Residents of Pittsburgh remembered "the Old Jewish Church" after it had been razed. The site appears to have become the site of a parking lot. In 1920, there was the Beth Hamedrash Hagodol congregation with Rabbi Aaron M. Ashinsky the leader. The replacement is close to the original location and Beth Hamedrash Hagodol occupies it still along with another congregation but Jews are few in the area and becoming fewer as time passes. HeyYallYo 18:32, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 72 Miller Street

Information is tremendously available in R. L. Polk city directories of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania published yearly and covering more than 50 years. Originally 72 Miller Street was a synagogue with a congregation called Kanascis Israel. The building is a place of worship in August, 2007. It is not a synagogue.HeyYallYo 19:58, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

It's near Dinwiddie Street.HeyYallYo 20:48, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Czechoslovakia

Max Solomon told me that the League of Nations provided the new nation of "Czechoslovakia" with the exclusive right to produce siphon seltzer bottles to encourage the industrial development of the new nation. For several years (circa 1920-1925), other nations were prohibited from producing siphon seltzer bottles. HeyYallYo 12:58, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please do not recoil

The expression "Jews Hill" is now obsolete, as is the expression "Deutschtown," which had been used to refer to a part of the city that is now called "the Northside." A very small "Chinatown" existed in the city at one time. "Polish Hill" still exists, though it has deteriorated. A large preponderating Catholic church exists there.

Readers of the article should not recoil at the mention of the word Jews. All of the information in the article may be confirmed by thoroughly examining copies of R. L. Polk city directories of the City of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. There is a complete set available for perusal on microfilm at the main Carnegie Library on Forbes Avenue in the Oakland section of the city.

Readers must keep it in mind that streets such as Fullerton and Townsend are things of the past. They have been completely destroyed. Other streets have different names from their original names, e.g., Watson Street was originally called Ann Street. Some streets were renamed around 1915 to correct the duplications of names which existed after Allegheny, Pa. was annexed in 1906-11. HeyYallYo 03:27, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

A dedicated person can uncover the name Nathan Marcuson (a bottler) and many more names of Jews with their occupations listed by searching city directories.

HeyYallYo 14:39, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

---

I've heard this expression used about Squirrel Hill by people who don't like us, so unfortunately it is not completely dead. The interesting part of this is that part of why saying this now is insulting is because it makes reference to the fact the community which is now Squirrel is descended from the now decimated The Hill. I guess in that manner it is an insult to both communities. --Absolute Relativity 13:26, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

---

The Admiral (below) was still in operation in the 1970s. Sam Rosen was its proprietor. HeyYallYo (talk) 23:21, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] My edit

The influences of Catholics predominates in the city of Pittsburgh at this time (2007). Other groups of religious citizens, Jews amongst them, are less active and less visible.

This statement is false and a promotion of the writers religion/neighborhood/etc. Pittsburgh is a very diverse city, and this is a lie when referring to many of the city's neighborhoods. I changed the statement to say "The influences of Catholics predominates some neighborhoods in the city of Pittsburgh at this time (2007)." Which is factually correct.

--Absolute Relativity 01:45, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

There are large Catholic churches visible in the region. Any photographer can capture their images. They are not concealed from view. "Diversity" is a new term that is popular nowadays, but it cannot refute my claim that Catholics are are the dominant religious group in the region. I intend to place truths into articles, not misleading claims. I am not a liar. I am not interested in writing about religions, a subject which incenses and enrages people all over the earth. HeyYallYo (talk) 23:21, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Evidence?

"Despite the fact that Squirrel Hill and The Hill are legally in the same jurisdiction, Squirrel Hill does receive preferential treatment regarding some city services (most importantly police protection)."

Could someone provide some evidence before spouting off effective insults about the Pittsburgh Police? I'm not saying it's not true, but without some citation, this is just conspiratorial. I lived in Pittsburgh for four years and I never saw any evidence of police favoritism by neighborhood. 24.207.160.25 21:48, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I did not write that statement. I believe that police protection is strongest in the downtown area. If you are downtown in the evening, policemen and/or women probably have noticed your presence. Cameras have been implaced, and connected to remote locations.

HeyYallYo 21:04, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can you identify the emblem?

This building is now a Baptist church, however, it may have been a synagogue, when new. HeyYallYo 23:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Does a reference book exist? Is one available with religious symbols therein?

HeyYallYo (talk) 13:30, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It may be an architectural representation of a sanctuary lamp, perhaps. HeyYallYo (talk) 23:21, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

There is a large Christian church named "Zion Memorial" in existence on Herron Avenue. It may have originally been a Jewish structure. Herron Avenue is at the easternmost edge of "Jews Hill" at the end of Wylie Avenue. Herron Avenue is a severly destroyed street with vacant lots where buildings had rested in the Upper Hill. HeyYallYo 23:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1920s

It appears to be so that the area that is now called "the Hill District" reached its most glamorous stage after 1920. The war to end all wars in Europe enriched American bankers who lent money to the warring nations. Money to finance the building of structures was available in the United States in the 1920s at very low rates of interest such as two percent. HeyYallYo (talk) 04:30, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

J. P. Morgan, Jr. was a leading American banker during The Great War.

HeyYallYo (talk) 05:40, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Admiral tavern

Sam Rosen operated the Admiral at 1400 Fifth Avenue. The Admiral is worth mentioning for several reasons:

• The building still exists in January, 2008.
• Sam managed the establishment in the 1970s which made him one of the latter Jews to keep an establishment in the area.
• After being robbed, Sam armed himself with a large revolver that he wore in a holster on his waist in plain view. His motto was this: "It ain't who shoots first, it's who shoots last."
• Directly across the street, Darling's drugstore has been razed. It was a busy place, too, in the 1970s. HeyYallYo (talk) 23:21, 9 January 2008 (UTC)