Talk:Jewish philosophy

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Constantin Brunner was previously deleted from this article, but he himself definitely believed that his work derived fundamentally from his own understanding of Judaism. >Barrett Pashak

Contents

[edit] List of publications

User:APH added a link to his "important publications" project. However, the section on Jewish philosophy is... empty. I have therefore removed the link until something has been added there. Unfortunately, most "Jewish philosophy" is firmly enmeshed in various works of rabbinic literature, such as Nachmanides' Torah commentary, and identifying these works would be tedious. JFW | T@lk 07:13, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Being a philosopher is not the same as being a rabbi

At one or time another, every rabbi writes on a topic that can be considered philosophy. Nonetheless, that in of itself does not make that rabbi an actual philosopher. Unless you fall for the modern day view of "continental philosophy", in which damn near everything ever written counts as philosophy, then we cannot count rabbis such as Moshe Chaim Luzzatto and Menachem Mendel Schneerson as philosophers. These rabbis did not formally study philosophy, nor did they attempt to systematically study philosophical issues. Rabbis such as Joseph Soloveitch, Abraham Joshua Heschel and Neil Gillman, however, are. These rabbis engaged in years of formal study of philosophy, and they systematically wrote about philosophical issues as philosophy. RK 04:01, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

Izak writes "RK please refrain from attcking me personally. Thank you". Chill out, man. I am asking you to stop using polemical titles in the article. People can be described non-polemicaly. How is this a personal attack on you? (It isn't.) Relax, Izak.

Also, Izak, please read the above paragraph. Just because someone is a rabbi and/or a Kabbalist, that does not make them a philosopher! In fact, they are usually totally separate professions. So why do you keep inserting Moshe Chaim Luzzato as a philosopher? What evidence do you have to present that he is a philosopher? I am open to your views; but I need to know what they are! Philosophers do not view R. Luzzato as a philosopher, and even the Encyclopedia Judaica does not describe him as such. As far as I have been able to ascertain, he never studied or wrote philosophy. He was a mystic. You should put him in a list of Kabbalists. RK 13:13, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

RK writes "Unless you fall for the modern day view of "continental philosophy", in which damn near everything ever written counts as philosophy,..." RK is certainly correct that this is a "modern day VIEW of "continental philosophy"", propounded by the likes of Sokal, Scruton and RK himself, but it shows a basic misunderstanding of the thinkers who are usually designated under that term. Rather, for these thinkers, everything counts as worthy of philosophical enquiry. And this is no different from the view of most great philosophers (Wittgenstein being an obvious exception in some ways). But what is particular about, say, Heidegger and Post-Heideggereans (such as Derrida, Nancy, Levinas) is an emphasis upon the influence of metaphysics, particularly of Plato, Aristotle, Kant and Hegel, upon other areas of life, including language itself, particularly through religious and educational structures. Thus the question is not so much to question the validity of Platonism, but to assess it (paradoxically, for Platonism, in terms of what it designates,) as a "fact on the ground" (I do not wish to be contentious in this choice of phrase - it is simply the most convenient). Hence, unlikely texts are read in relation to canonical ones, and subjected to rigorous philosophical analysis in order to unearth the metaphysical inheritances that predetermine their views. Such a project lacks nothing in the way of philosophicality and, indeed, the very discipline and extended research it requires is itself largely responsibile for the off-the-cuff dismissals it receives from the likes of Sokal, Scruton and RK who are either too lazy, too philosophically undeveloped or too biased toward a received opinion (such as the fetish of positivism which haunts Anglo-American philosophy after Quine,) to give it due consideration, and who hence simply misunderstand it. RK should actively engage with "Continental Philosophy" in order to make an accurate statement upon it, or he should avoid mention of it at all. Received opinion garnered from populist diatribes should have no place in Wiki-philosophy, if we are to build it into an arena for informed philosophical enquiry and discussion. Simon

Derrida, Nancy, Levinas are not even recognized as philosophers by many philosophers themselves. In fact, Derrida, Nancy, Levinas attack most works of philosophy as meaningless. How can you leave this important fact out? In any case, stop making this article about a single Wikipedia contributor ("RK") and deal with the actual content. Your criticisms of me personally have no bearing on this article. Finally, your personal attacks on actual philosophers like Sokal as "lazy" demonstrate that you have no interest in working on an encyclopedia article, but merely wish to push a POV. Remember, No Personal Attacks. RK 19:55, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I think we should erase Hegel, Marx, Nietzsche, Heidegger, Bergson, Husserl, Jaspers, Hannah Arendt, Derrida, Nancy, Levinas, Paul Ricoeur, Foucault, Deleuze, Sartre, Althusser from the list of philosophers. Sorry for those I forgot... As a sidenote (but just as a sidenote, don't take it seriously please, I think Wiki-philosophy learnt me one thing: how much despise and ignorance a certain type of people (I won't say Analytic philosophy, I certainly hope this attitude doesn't represent all the Analytic tradition, does it?) show toward what is considered, in a small and old, surely too old place bound to get lost in space, once called "Europe". Santa Sangre 04:28, 30 April 2006 (UTC) And, to anybody interested (Is there anybody out there?), Derrida, Nancy and Levinas, apart of being very different authors, didn't of course consider others works of philosophy as meaningless. Simply, some people read deconstruction of metaphysics as synonym of attributing meaningless. Which demonstrates a sure lack of understanding meanings of words and concepts. Santa Sangre 04:31, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fackenheim

Did Emil Fackenheim self-identify as "reform?" The few books of his I have read address major issues in "Jewish" thought, not major issues in or ideologies of the Reform movement. Slrubenstein | Talk 17:17, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Removed introduction

Someone added a new introduction, but it was vague and offered no sources. It basically said that Jewish philosophy didn't even exist, and that the article only existed because it was a "scholarly" subject. That new intro made clear that real Jews don't even deal with philosophy, and that Jewish philosophy is non-Jewish and maybe even atheist. That entire intro had to go as it subtly made personal attacks on Jews who study philosophy (including much of the faculty of Yeshiva University and Bar Ilan, Orthodox institutions). It was very was misleading. Finally, it made the provably false claim that this was some sort of "latter day" attempt at apologetics, which is just bizarrely. Jews have engaged in serious philosophy since before the time of Saddya Gaon, and except in parts of the ultra-Orthodox community, Jewish philosophy has always been held in high regard by a large part of the Jewish community. I can't imagine what a Yeshiva would like without the works of the Jewish philosophers, but it would small indeed. RK 19:59, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Salomon Maimon

Needs to be added: Salomon Maimon

I read his page, and from what I saw there, he was a philosopher but he neither philosophized about Judaism nor did his Judaism particularly inform his philosophy. So, for now, I'd be inclined to leave him off this page. --Ben Kovitz 20:39, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Post-Enlightnment?

How is Spinoza post-enlightened? :) Kind of strange title. Why not simply "Enlightnment"? I don't know why, I always thought Spinoza belonged to the Enlightenment tradition... Santa Sangre 04:21, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Good point! I'll look at the text. RK 23:25, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Awkward wording in Holocaust Theology?

Is it just me or is the tone of voice in the Holocaust Theology section rather informal, unencyclopedic and conversational in nature? Admittedly, I know very little about the subject, otherwise the entry would be changed by now. Still, does anyone have something they would like to share about that area? It might need some help.--Son of More 07:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Restructured the article

I restructured the article today, by grouping the sections into historical periods. This cleans up the table of contents and might even lead to a nice intro. I hope someone will review the new structure to be sure I didn't botch anything. I also marked Position in the history of thought as needing citations. --Ben Kovitz 20:33, 30 September 2007 (UTC)