Talk:Jewish music

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[edit] Contemporary Jewish pop music

A whole branch of contemporary Jewish music is missing from this article, but I do not feel that I know about musical terms and styles well enough to fill in the gaps. I'm talking about popular Orthodox musicians like Yehuda!, Mordechai Ben David, Miami Boys Choir, who sing well known Hebrew verses (or English lyrics with religious themes) over keyboards, drums, and electronic sounds. If anyone knows more about this, please help!The Box 21:28, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

I just added a small section to the article, but it really needs help from someone who knows more about the topic. The Box 22:21, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

There is an article on contemporaary Jewish pop music over at Shiny Shoe Music. Consensus has decided that that title is a misnomer, but no consensus has been reached on where to move that article (i.e., what to rename it). I just suggested there that it be merged into this article. Please feel free to continue discussion there about what to do with that article; or to continue discussion here about the general topic of contemporary Jewish popular music. Thanks!—msh210℠ 16:48, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

This article needs a lot of work. It jumps around in time - from the temple period, to the middle ages, to synagogal music (when was that) then back to the temple, then to modern times. It is unclear when a lot of the developments took place.

But the biggest problem - the one that is pointed out in the beginning of the article - is that it is not about Jewish music. It is about Jewish liturgical music. As such, it is inappropriate for inclusion in the Wikipedia catalog of World music articles.

What we need to do is rename this article "Jewish Liturgical Music" and create a new article called "Jewish Music" which is an overview of the subject, with pointers to the various specific articles.

Since moving or renaming an article is considered a major event in Wikiculture, I feel reticent to do this without some discussion. So I am opening this to discussion now.

--Ravpapa 13:58, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

It certainly suffers from a certain schizophrenia: the disambiguation text at the beginning clarifies that the article is supposedly about sacred music, and directs readers interested in secular Jewish music to the article Secular Jewish culture. Yet a good deal of the music mentioned in the Contemporary Jewish Music section one would be hard-pressed to call sacred; neither, however, could it all be called secular -- so there's the problem: there's a good deal of music that takes its inspiration from religion or touches on religious subjects but which is not sacred music in the commmon sense of the term, including music which often formally resembles popular song but which treats of religious subjects. For this reason, I think it is too much to say that the article should be retitled "Jewish Liturgical Music," because not all religious music is either liturgical or even sacred. How about "Jewish religious music," which would cover liturgical, sacred and more contemporary music that is religious in theme or inspiration? --Rrburke 23:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Move and merges and creation

Everything is a mess, I created this to be the central article, similar to what Secular Jewish music and dance is and a Religious Jewish music should be created a central article as well. I also moved "Contemporary Jewish music" out of the original sacred article as it had nothing to do with it (see above) and moved it to it's own, Contemporary Jewish religious music. Furthermore, I think Synagogal Music and Sacred Jewish music at some point need to be merged. I'm not sure how this will go over, but I trying to be bold to fix this up. Epson291 13:19, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


It is MUCH better now. Really worked on it. It makes much more sense now in its structure. Also really work on the Jewish dance section. Jewish music and are more then less lists right now, but that should change with some work. Epson291 16:16, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok now this page needs not to look like a disambiguation page, along with the Religious Jewish music Epson291 13:14, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
I fixed it up! and it no longer looks like a disambiguation page. Someone kind, please fix up History of religious Jewish music, I'm scared to look at! Epson291 05:05, 27 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Radical Jewish Music

If this is the central article for Jewish music, it doesn't make sense to remove "Contemporary Jewish Music". Radical Jewish music is an indigenous form of Jewish music in America in the same way that Klezmer was for Eastern Europe. It is a diverse form, incorporating avant-garde jazz such as Massada and cabaret/klezmer/punk such as Golem. It is music that focuses on the diaspora experience. Aside from its importance from within Jewish American culture, radical Jewish musicians are often the face of new Jewish music for the rest of the United States. Tzadik founder John Zorn just got a MacArthur Award for his work. The text below belongs in this article:
John Zorn's record label, Tzadik Records, features a "Radical Jewish Culture" series that focuses on exploring what contemporary Jewish music is and what it offers to contemporary Jewish culture. Other lables which focus on similar themes through diverse music stlyes include JDub Records, Oyhoo, and the Knitting Factory's now defunct label: The Jewish Alternative Movement.yokyle 16:38, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
This so called "Radical Jewish Music" appears to be a one label show ("Tzadik Records"). I've never heard of it, and Goggle does not bring back many results other then directing to Tzadik Records. It is not prevlent enough to be included here in this central article, there isn't even a article on it on Wikipedia.
Is this secular Jewish music? Maybe a sourced explanation (from a real scholarly source), would be good in Secular Jewish music and dance, this music simply isn't prevlant enough to be on this main article and there are already articles to deal with Secular Jewish music. (If I walk into a Judaica shop, (or HMV), can I by this music?) Epson291 07:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shiny Shoe Music

Since Shiny Shoe music redirect here, it might be an idea to actually mention it somewhere in the article.

-- TimNelson 05:22, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

are jews really "a religion and a nation"? odd.

[edit] Revisions by 60.51.136.157

User 60.51.136.157 has twice added a phrase to the last sentence of History of Religious Music. The edit renders the sentence unintelligible. The first time this user made the change, I reverted it. Now that he has made it a second time, it is clear he wants to say something, maybe important, but I can't figure out what it is supposed to mean.

60.51.136.157, if you are out there reading this, please write me to explain what you meant. You can write to me directly in Hebrew via the "E-mail this user" function on my talk page. I will try to put it into proper English so everyone can understand.

I also question 60.51.136.157's other addition to the article. Does a popular song by an Indonesian singer about Jews really qualify as "Jewish music"? Is there anything Jewish about this song (other than the fact that the text discusses Jews)?

--Ravpapa (talk) 06:30, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Orthodox and music

I followed the link to the reference given for the contention that "Many Orthodox Jews insist their children listen to music produced only by other Orthodox Jews, so that their children will not be influenced by harmful outside ideas." I found no reference in the article to Orthodox Jews, and nothing to support this statement.

The statement may well be true, even if it is probably offensive to many. But without a source, it has no place in the article. If no one shows me a reliable source for this statement, I will remove it.

Thank you, --Ravpapa (talk) 06:38, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish Music Sidebar

I suppose this isn't the correct place for this comment, but I can't figure out how to fix this myself. The Jewish and Israeli Music sidebar has a link to the disambiguation page for the Hora. I think the link should link to the Hora (dance) article specifically. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.252.239.17 (talk) 17:07, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Done. --Ravpapa (talk) 18:02, 17 May 2008 (UTC)