Talk:Jewish Task Force

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[edit] Wrong Information and Bad Edits

Many thanks to the morons and scumbags who changed my edits from yesterday! The article is now MUCH more false, misleading, and unedifying. Good job, jerks! At the very least you could note the cable access TV shows began in ~1984~ or earlier, and that Pesach is ~deliberately~ anti-PC. But why print the truth? 24.44.129.156 21:14, 16 May 2007 (UTC)KyZan

Why is it that this article cannot be edited by anonymous users? The current article is a COMPLETE HATCHET JOB. 24.47.193.156 13:36, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

--Eternalsleeper 02:16, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Good grief! Wikipedia seems to have a leftist slant, and you complain this article is too right wing?--69.234.213.239 (talk) 15:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] JTF and immigration

According to the article, JTF wants an end to all immigration into the USA and the gradual expulsion of legal immigrants and permanent residents. Does this include people from countries who are traditionally close to the USA, such as Britons, Australians, Canadians, and Israelis? Or Jews from whatever country? Or is this only confined to people coming from Third and Fourth World countries? I suspect the latter.

They would certainly like to block only Third World immigrants, but realizing that this is unrealistic, they advocate ending all immigration. They don't want Israeli Jewish immigrants to stay in America because they believe that all Jews belong in Israel.
It's no more or less unrealistic than ending all immigration. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.160.18.230 (talk) 17:56, 10 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Allegations of Racism

JTF hates evil blacks. Not good blacks. JTF hates evil hispanics, not good hispanics. To be a racist, you must discriminate between races. JTF does not. JTF treats every race equally. You can't get more "Neutral" than that. Yaakov Ben Chaim 01:31, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Their notion of good and evil is different than most's. From their prespective, all the blacks and the muslims are evil, with a few exceptions. They had even created an article titled "Malcolm X exposed as a homosexual rapist and prostitute". Also, its forum members often praise and promote all arabs deaths. As I've said before, this article should be from a neutral POV, and not JTF's. Nupractor 13:24, 29 January 2007 (UTC)



JTF's distinction between good and evil comes from the Torah because it is a religious organization. Nonetheless, they are entitled to an article that presents its views accordingly. Why is everyone picking on JTF all of a sudden? Just because it does not squarely fit the mold of secular/humanist/relativist does not mean its views should be distorted. I think JTF has been unfairly disciminated against.

JTF's distinction between good and evil differs from other religious Jewish organizations, with the exception of Kahanist organizations, but that's not the point. I'm not trying to argue whether JTF is wrong/evil or not, but it is indeed a racist organization, as it believes that most of the blacks and arabs are evil and deserve to be discriminated against, or even banished or killed. (a short examination of their website/forums verifys that) Nupractor 17:42, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I do not think it needs a 'racism' tag. Many people, when left to their own volition, associate the 'Kahanism' tag with racism. That should be enough to satisfy your desire to smear JTF. Even the Nation of Islam does not have a racism tag, nor does Hamas. Wikipedia should not make value judgements. It is up to the reader to decide what is racism.

Hamas is a part of the 'Islam and antisemitism' category, which is more fitting and accurate than 'racism'.
As I've said before, just a small examination of their website proves that it is a racist organization - with articles such as "There are no Arab "moderates", and forum members that often praise the deaths of arabs, including children. Could you really argue with the claim that JTF hates blacks and arabs? Nupractor 18:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

It is not racist to believe that there are no Muslim moderates. Narrow-minded, maybe. Insensitive, probably. Islam is not a race. JTF calls attention to versus from the Koran and Hadith that directly call for the slaughter of Jews and Christians. Perhaps the Koran is racist. JTF, as extreme as it is, is not racist because it calls attention to perceived racism against the West. Maybe you can write "Islamophobia". As for blacks, JTF does not discriminate against them. ANYONE who is disloyal to the U.S. should leave, including 'whites' and Jews. They are not hated because of their skin color. Statistics indicate that 70% of black babies are born out of wedlock. JTF promotes this verifiable fact and is opposed to black culture, much of which plainly contradicts Judeo-Christian norms Is that racist?

They seem to hate all arabian people, not just muslims, therefore racism is more fitting than 'Islamophobia'. Also, they do discriminate blacks, they presume all of them are evil unless proven otherwise. See this thread: http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=2630.0 Nupractor 22:55, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Baloney. JTF says nothing disparaging about Coptics/Alawis/Kurds/Bedouin/Druze/Eastern Orthodox and other 'Arabian peoples'. Besides, the JTF forum is maintained INDEPENDENTLY from the JTF. What you're saying is that the Hillary Clinton hates gays because someone makes a derogatory post on a fanclub forum. JTF's forum, while mainly representative of JTF's views, must not be considered 'proof' that JTF is racist. I thought you were being objective until now. You obviously have an agenda. So much for the wikipedia experiment in objectivity. Why do you think JTF did not have a racism tag before? Because wikipedia editors could wrap their minds around the fact that although they found JTF abhorrent, they had to remain objective. Members of the forum are not members of JTF. JTF is run by Chaim ben-Pesach and its 'members' are the Jewish leaders in the hills of Judea.

If they only hate Muslims, why was the topic of the article "There are no Arab "moderates"" and not "There are no Muslim "moderates""? And regarding the link, they discussed the ideas presented in Chaim's video, who indeed represents JTF.
Why it didn't have a tag before? It actually had, but it kept being changed by JTF supporters. Read the archive, it's full of arguments regarding JTF and racism. Nupractor 07:11, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

According to you, JTF is racist because it believes you can't be a moderate Muslim. Well I've got news for you: Winston's Churchill must also be a racist because he described the Koran as the 'Mein Kampf of war'. And your comments about the link make no sense. If I start a blog and discuss Derek Jeter, who represents the Yankees, does that make me a baseball player? How dare you label anyone who disagrees with the tag as a JTF supporter? I've read the archives. There are differences of opinion on thousands of articles on wikipedia and someone who takes the side of JTF should not be anymore marginalized than someone who takes the side against it. Let's resolves this once and for all. Add the tag Islamophobia, because it objectively fits into this category. JTF may be a lot of things but it is not racist. Chaim's video is not racist. Stop acting like a Bolshevik.

Perhaps not all who opposed the racism tag were JTF supporters, but the vast majority of them were, as can be seen from their comments.
Now, as I said earlier, in the forum thread I've linked to the members were talking about the ideas presented in Chaim's own video, and therefore these ideas represent JTF.
Islamofobia/anti-Islam' might fit, but 'Racism' is much more accurate.
Please stop pretending you're being more objective than me, calling me a Bolshevik (how is that even related?) doesn't support your cause. Nupractor 09:04, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

This is the Merriam Webster Dictionary's definition of racism: "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race" I challenge you to produce evidence from JTF's website [not the forum because it is indepedent of JTF] or from Chaim's videos that confirm this. What you will find, if you've listened to JTF's programs, is that JTF does NOT believe in the superiority of any race or people over another. JTF uses the Torah and Jewish sources to distinguish between good and evil. Now, even a cursory understanding of Judaism would lead one to know that the Torah judges people by their ACTIONS and not by any other defining attribute INCLUDING race. As an aside, JTF spends most of their show CRITICIZING JEWISH LEADERS and saying horrible things about them. Why? Is JTF anti-semitic? No. IT JUDGES PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR ACTIONS. Definition #2-"racial prejudice or discrimination"- I've already made the case that JTF does not discriminate by race. On their site, you will find as many articles attacking Woody Allen as you will Malcolm X. Lastly, Chaim ben Pesach, when he was in the JDL, roughed up neo-Nazis. Neo-Nazis are the epitome of evil behavior and racism. Chaim ben Pesach cracked their skulls. I'm quite confident that if you ever saw a neo-Nazi you would shit your pants.

Chaim had said on a video that he supports the laws that forced blacks to sit in the back of the bus, isn't that racism?
You could say it judges people based on their action, but it believes 99% of the blacks and arabs are acting the same, and considers them evil unless proven otherwise. Yes, they do attack SOME Jewish leaders, but not the jewish culture/people in general. Yet, I haven't compared JTF members/supporters to neo-nazis, and I have no intention of doing so.
Also, regarding the forums - these are NOT fan forums, but official forums managed by representives of JTF, and therefore they, for most part, reflect the ideology of the organization. Nupractor 20:30, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

1. 27 U.S. Senators voted against the 1964 Civil Rights Act. I dare you to go to Albert Gore Sr.'s wikipedia profile and add the tag, 'racism'. Do the same for Barry Goldwater and current senator Robert Byrd. If Chaim was a Senator, he probably would have voted against the act. That makes him a racist? Go to the Brown v. Board case and add the 'racism' tag to William Rehnquist and other famous people who opposed its legality. These people are not racists. Believing in states rights and freedom of association may seem abhorrent to you but it's not racism.

2. Find me a link that shows JTF believes 99% of the blacks and Muslims act the same. I can find you links that show 70% of black babies are born out of wedlock. I can find you a Gallup poll showing that 100 million Muslims believe 9/11 was 'justified'. Of course they do not attack the Jewish religion. The Jewish religion does not make broad statements about killing non-adherents. Unlike Islam, Judaism did not spread through rape, murder, and pillage. JTF strongly supports Christians. My point about the Neo-Nazis was that JTF opposes racism/anti-Jew hatred in all its forms, black and Islamic. JTF dwells on the racism of other ethnic groups because they pose a danger to Judaism and the west.

3. The forums, as I've tried to make painstakingly clear, are independent of JTF. There is a Hebrew forum and an English forum. Chaim isn't even a member of the forum. As it says on JTF.org, the forum is "created and maintained by friends of our organization". Stop making things up about the forum being official. It was created without JTF even knowing about it and its administrators do not even live in NYC, where JTF is based. My Derek Jeter analogy was a very clear but I'll revise it for you. If I go onto forum for Yankee fans and insult Derek Jeter, it does not mean that the New York Yankees oppose Derek Jeter.

1. I'd rather not fix articles regarding topics I know little about, and concentrate on this one.
2. Their articles and behavior reflects what I had said. Again, please don't question my objectivity, as you seem to be lacking it yours.
3. Actually Chaim frequents the forums, I've seen him logged in quite a few times, and he's even given a few good words to a poster who seems to be fond of the idea of exterminating all Arabs. Also, have you noticed that JTF is currently hosting (and therefore supporting) it? Nupractor 21:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Chaim posts on the forum? That's rubbish. Find me a single post of his (and not one of the various Chaim fans).If you can find me this post about Chaim ben Pesach supporting the "extermination of all Arabs", I'll concede this argument. If not, you'll seriously have to re-examine your supposed objectivity. Your allegation is a very serious one.

I think you misunderstood, I said Chaim praised a member that had shown support that idea in a few different threads. Chaim posted in the Hebrew forums, that are currently unavailable to unregistered users, so I'm afraid I cannot provide a direct link. Nupractor 22:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I must say your hearsay evidence is quite underwhelming. Please register for the forum and find me these links where he allegedly supports the extermination of Arabs. I'm fluent in Hebrew so I can read the posts. Please find them for me because you made the accusation.

I said he praised a member who supports it, he didn't say he himself supports it. Just search for recent posts by his account. Nupractor 22:40, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


Stop changing your story! This is the most absurd argument ever made! He praised a member who supports it. What did he praise this member for? Is there a reason he praised this member? You want to argue that Chaim ben Pesach is a racist because he praised a poster for some unknown reason who hates Arabs. Absurd! I can't go on with this discussion anymore. Your argument is CRAZY. Surely you are the one breaking wikipedia's rules. You are not objective. .

I'm not changing my story, I've said the exact same thing in the last three messages. He just praised him for his activism. My main point was that he actually posts, unlike what you had said. Anyway, even without his message, he's racist for all the things I have stated earlier, even if he denies it.
I really don't understand how you could say I'm being unobjective, when you're clearly a supporter of JTF, and seem to regard their opinions as 'facts'. Nupractor 22:53, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

He only posts on the Hebrew forum. He doesn't post on the English forum. Let's just make that distinction. You in effect just said: "Chaim is a racist, even if he denies it". Chaim is a racist, even if he denies it? Even if he clearly differentiates between culture and race. Even after he repeatedly states on the Ask JTF programs that he doesn't believe in racial theories, or inherent racial inferiority/superiority. He's a racist? No matter what. That is your OPINION, but don't you dare insert it into this article as if it's a fact. 24.46.114.229 06:57, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Stormfront members also often claim they're not racists/anti-semitic, does it make it true? I accused JTF and Chaim of racism, because they strongly support race-based discrimination. (such as forcing blacks to sitting in the back in the bus, because they believe most of them have EVIL culture) Nupractor 07:48, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
You know NOTHING about the organization. Race-based discrimination? JTF wants to level the playing field. They want to end affirmative-action. And I got news for you. I'm of mixed race, but to the vast majority of people I'm considered "black". And guess what? I PROUDLY support that initiative. And I PROUDLY support the JTF with the pitiful funds that I have at my disposal. Your argument is pure NONSENSE. The leading figures for that neo-Nazi organization you mentioned use racial theories to prove that other races are "inferior" to the "Aryans". 24.46.114.229 20:48, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Your own race is irrelevant to the argument, even Stormfront (which is usually considered more radical) is supported by quite a few non-whites.
Once again, the racism category fits JTF because it supports racial discrimination (I've provided an example in my last edit). The reasons for the discrimination, and whether it's considered right or wrong by the majority, are irrelevant. Nupractor 22:10, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Supporting affirmative action against white people is racial discrimination, 'whether it's considered right or wrong by the majority.'

Affirmative action is already under the racism category. Nupractor 09:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Fine, then add the 'anti-racism' tag to JTF because it opposes racists of every creed and color.

Yeah, only if those racists also happen to be antisemitic; it really doesn't fit the category. Nupractor 21:53, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Fine, so it's "anti-anti-semitism." Happy?


This must stop. Nupractor, you say that JTF needs a "Racism" tag, even when JTF does not discriminate between the races. Whos fault is it if a majority of a people who have the same skin color are evil? Is it JTF's, for following the standards of the Torah? Or is it the fault of the people of that skin color who CHOSE to be evil? Chaim Ben Pesach supported ALAN KEYES, a black man for President of the United States of America in 2000. Over white men, George Bush and John McCain. Jesse Jackson, for example, is a racist anti-semite. Jesse Jackson called New York "Hymietown" and the Jews "Hymies". Put an anti-semitism tag on him. I would like to see you do that. Yaakov Ben Chaim 20:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

As long as JTF views black people as 'evil' IN GENERAL (even with a few exceptions) and supports discrimination, the racism tag fits perfectly.
Regarding Jesse Jackson, feel free modify his article if you believe it's needed.
By the way, calling me a bolshevik nazi in your forum doesn't help your cause. --Nupractor 22:34, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Chaim Ben Pesach Page

Can someone please message me on how to re-create the ben Pesach page, I will do it ASAP.
--Eternalsleeper 17:26, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Can we please create a separate article for Chaim Ben Pesach. The bombing and tear gas attacks he carried out, plus the fact that he has been chairman of both JDL and JTF, and is a minor tv personality means that he is certainly a person of enough significance to be placed in an individual wikipedia article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Joel2017 (talk • contribs) 22:30, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

Not to mention that his program reaches thousands of young Israeli Jews.

I have created a page about Chaim Ben Pesach, and I have copied the information about him on the Jewish Task Force article and placed it onto his own page. I cannot delete the same info on the JTF page here however since I am a new user and this page is protected. Please can someone else delete this information here for me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Joel2016 (talk • contribs) 12:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC).

Where is the new article? Chaim Ben Pesach still redirects to JTF.
At the moment this article cannot be modified by anyone, you just have to wait until it gets unprotected. Also, I suggest including additional information in the new article, to make its existance more justified. Nupractor 16:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I have placed it under the title "Ben Pesach" since "Chaim Ben Pesach" just redirects back to the JTF page.

You can still edit it. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chaim_Ben_Pesach&redirect=no Nupractor 06:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Pesach is a truly great man who has moved the world! The legitimate heir to Meir Kahane, he's also widely known throughout the planet among "movers and shakers." He clearly deserves his own page. KyZan 08:50, 16 May 2007 (UTC)KyZan

I strongly suggest and plan to re-create the ben Pesach page. I don't want to read about JTF, I want to read about ben Pesach who is very worthy of hav

ing his own page.

--64.230.25.4 17:23, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


even this little hitler deserves his own page, I agree. Likeminas 14:23, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Racism apt description

The description of JTF as racist is apt. I saw a program on Queens Public Access of theirs which consisted of a long racist rant. He said that people of African descent "F" their mothers (does not using the explitive make you a moral person?), he said that Black people "cover themselves in doodoo," and he likened Blacks to monkeys and baboons. Maybe he is was only talking about "the evil" Black people as JTF defenders on this board insist, but if that was his intention he made no attempt to voice his "criticisms" of Black people in a way that would not be construed as racist. It is unfortunate that such garbage can be played on TV where children can easily watch it. I wrote to the public access station about it and they said they couldn't do anything. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jamec378 (talk • contribs) 02:00, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Category:Anti-Islam sentiment

The purpose of this category is to show links to articles about prejudice against muslims. How is this article relevant to Anti-Islam sentiment? Secondly, provide indisputable citations before labeling websites and people as racists.--Sefringle 00:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Just visit the website, you shouldn't have any problem finding anti-black and anti-muslims articles.
Here's a fine example:http://jtf.org/israel/israel.arab.moderates.part.one.htm Nupractor 07:13, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Sounds like he is calling arabs anti-israel, and the article seems very anti-Arab, but I wouldn't say anti-muslim or anti-black.--Sefringle 21:28, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Most of the articles in the website are obviously targeting blacks and muslims. Also, see on the main page: "THE KORAN Read Islam's terrorist bible for yourself!" - clearly anti-Islam. Nupractor 22:32, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
How is that prejudice against muslims, and not just Criticial of Islam. Where does he specificly say something along the lines of "All muslims are terrorists", and not "islam is a religion of terrorism"? And again, provide a link--Sefringle 22:34, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
If they believe Islam is evil, they also believe its followers are also evil. The article CLEARLY fits the Anti-Islam category. And also from the main page: "Our movement is the only hope for saving America and Israel from Islam, whose fanatical hatred seeks the destruction of all non-Muslims" Nupractor 22:50, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

No that is not necessarily the case. It is for that very reason that the concept of Islamophobia is contraversial. Critics of Islam are not prejudice against Muslims. Many people may also think a religion, or multiple religions are evil; that doesn't mean they hate all followers of that religion. Many critics of Islam have said the exact same thing; they only provide evidence to prove it. But to say that just holding negative views of Islam means you hate all muslims is hasty generalization.--Sefringle 22:58, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Very well then, here's a fine piece of evidence, from http://jtf.org/israel/israel.arab.moderates.part.one.htm: "As a child, Sadat - like virtually all Arabs and Muslims - worshiped Hitler." Nupractor 23:15, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

What is racist about this, Sadat by his own admission in his autobiography in search of identity, wrote his two greatest heroes for his whole life were Mohammed and Hitler. Mein Kampf is the second best selling book in the Islamic and Arabs worlds, behind the Koran.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.64.200.36 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Racism?

JTF never said that there is something wrong with the black or the Arab races, they say the problem is with their culture of religion. Nupractor, don't put this category back without arbitration. --TRFA 19:05, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I really don't feel like repeating myself, please read the rest of the page and bring up some NEW arguments. Here's a good JTF article that justifies the category: http://jtf.org/israel/israel.arab.moderates.part.one.htm -Nupractor 19:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Again this is your point of view. If you want to put it back go to Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation. --TRFA 08:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
How is saying that ALL arabs with no exceptions, are evil jew-hating terrorists NOT racism? Nupractor 15:41, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
You think that this is racism, someone else doesn't. --TRFA 13:50, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Racism is prejudice based on race. Their opinion fits the definition. Nupractor 15:00, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
They don't see the Arabs as a race. They see them as a nation. --TRFA 09:53, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
One definition of a race: "A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution". Besides, I don't see any mention of a global arabian nation in the link I've provided. -Nupractor 12:54, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
"The most widely used human racial categories are based on visible traits (especially skin color, facial features and hair texture)" - from race. --TRFA 10:57, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Doesn't contradict my point. -Nupractor 12:36, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

What happened to the section with the quotations from them like "The blacks, you cant live with them ... They are just completely uncivilized."?--128.59.143.41 19:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Why do you JTF assholes care so vehemently about your shitty little terrorist outlet being called "racist"? You act like a bunch of fucking little kids. That archive is MASSIVE. IT ALMOST ENTIRELY REVOLVED AROUND ALLEGATIONS OF RACISM- YOU ARE FUCKING LUNATICS.

Interesting. Do you have reliable sources? --69.234.213.239 (talk) 15:43, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "JTF" is undeniably racist against AFRICANS

Anybody attempting to prove "JTF" as not racist will now be refuted.

Go to their OWN page and reads their article entitled:

"The Truth About Black Africa"

Here are just a few excerpts:


"The still backward Dark Continent, the "cradle of civilization," seen at night from a satellite"

"the absurd notion that the Dark Continent is the cradle of all human civilization."

"the nightmarish tyranny of Ghana, a truly black polity which, like every other west African kingdom, owed its existence to slave trading."

"the outlandish Third World hell hole"

Plus the LEADER of the organization is a convicted terrorist. That concludes my argument. These people are clearly racist, no amount of rhetoric could ever make that propoganda seem fair and balanced.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.120.136.183 (talk • contribs)

Why is it racist to say the truth that civilization didn't start in Sub-Saharan Africa? It's not racist to say it didn't start in Europe, which it didn't, so why the double standard? Civilization started in The Middle East. 72.92.124.149 23:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

The difference here is that they published a 40-page long screed that basically shits all over african history.

Actually, there is slavery in Africa still. Saying that Africa isn't a pleasant place to live doesn't necessarily mean they hate Africans. I mean, sometimes people move because they believe their former homes aren't pleasant places to live.--69.234.213.239 (talk) 15:43, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] JTF is a Jewish civil rights organization.

JTF is only against people if they are evil, not because of race. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.26.117.1 (talk • contribs) 19 April 2007 (UTC).

They don't deal with civil rights at all. According to them all the Arabs and Muslims, 99% of the black people, and all of the leftists (compared to them) are evil. -80.230.212.33 19:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

They deal with the civil rights of good people. Bad blacks don't have any rights. Good blacks like Alan Keyes do have rights. 72.92.124.149 23:49, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

JTF is certainly not a civil rights organization. JTF is simply a 2 or 3 man show ran by a convicted terrorist with a nazi fetish. Vancier is an unemployed farbrecher Gilligan lookalike who swindles money from fellow racists and asks them to spam message boards with the JTF website link. Pretty much the only mention of JTF is the result of their own shameless self-promotion. Lothey 12:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Lothey, have a look at the JTF organisation in israel.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Ftfl (talk • contribs)

JTF does nothing in Israel. All Vancier does is openly support radical Jews, hang on their coattails and claim credit for everything THEY do! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lothey (talk • contribs) 11:03, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Wikipedia is racist.

Wikipedia is racist and Anti-Semitic. That is why they disriminate against JTF. The JTF article used to be the only non-biased article about Israel and Right Wing Jews. Now it is the worse article dealing with Israel and Right Wing Jews. Even the articles about Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria aren't Anti-Semitic anymore. Kahane Chai! 72.92.124.149 19:07, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

If you are looking for racists, look no further than that little five foot 90 pound racist named Victor Vancier. Vancier seems to be doing his best to make people anti-Semetic by his racist tirades he films in front of the Israeli flag. Fortunately, hardly anyone knows about his racist organization despite his campaign of spamming forums and YouTube. Vancier is a small man filled with large amounts of hatred looking for undeserved attention and money to support his unemployed self.
Vancier is so hypocritical it's almost funny. He accuses Arabs (all of whom are Nazis, according to Victor) of being terrorists, yet Vancier himself is a convicted terrorist who hurt over 20 innocent people in 1986. He takes pride in his felony conviction and takes credit for the collapse of the soviet union as a result of his little terrorist attack!
Vancier also is very critical of gays, yet he himself openly had homosexual relationships in the early 1980s! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
Vancier is attempting to do great harm to the people who claims to represent. Luckily we know that most Jews, even Zionist Jews, are not racist or hateful like he is. There is very little difference between Vancier and David Duke. Lothey 11:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

This is exactly what JTF does. Like many other israeli and jewish extremists, they scream at all opposition as a bunch of mean old evil nazis and anti-semites. Yet JTF, at the same time, is an outright jewish and white supremacist organization that constantly denigrates and dehumanizes arabs, blacks, hispanics, etc.

Telling outright lies does not help a discussion, looking at you there Lothey.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Ftfl (talk • contribs) ]

Actually, Hispanics are allowed to join JTF.--69.234.213.239 (talk) 15:48, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Neither Wikipedia nor Pesach is racist. Such claims are passion dominating reason and truth. Enough already with wild charges. KyZan 08:45, 16 May 2007 (UTC)KyZan

[edit] Victor Vancier or Chaim Ben Pesach?

Victor Vancier is apparently his real registered name. This name was listed under the WHOIS data of JTF.org a few months ago, but unfortunately I cannot cite this. However, the same output is recieved from the WHOIS data of another website owned by him.[1]
Also, "Victor Vancier" gets more Google results than "Chaim Ben Pesach". --Nupractor 09:46, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree that his legal name should be used in this article. This is especially the case seeing how even Vancier himself can't seem to make up his mind on what he wants to call himself. Lothey 19:46, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

His Hebrew name is Chaim Ben Pesach. His civil name is Victor Vancier. That is for legal documents. But his Hebrew name is his religious name, and all Jews have one. Kahanechaivekayam 14:57, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

And why shouldn't we use his civil name, which is more widely known? Also, not all Jews have Hebrew names. --Nupractor 15:37, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

All Jews do have Hebrew names. It is their name Ben (son of) their father's name. If Chaim only had the name Victor and not Chaim, his Hebrew name would be Victor Ben Pesach. Kahanechaivekayam 00:04, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Not many use it to identify themselves. Anyway, I still see no reason not to use his civil name. --Nupractor 07:01, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
So what? Chaim does use his real name (His Hebrew name) and that is a fact. Yaakov Ben Chaim 23:20, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Now he uses it, but he is still more known by his "official" civil name. Nupractor 06:48, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
People should be allowed to choose their own name! Referring to him as "Vancier" seems hostile and bigoted. HE never refers to himself thus. KyZan 08:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC)KyZan
I have yet to see the Nation of Islam article edited to reflect the "civil name" of their current leader as Minister Louis Eugene Walcott. This incredible double standard is so blatantly disrespectful and anti-Semitic. As a public figure he's known as Chaim Ben Pesach. Period. A simple insert "Chaim Ben Pesach, whose English name is Victor Vancier" would be sufficient enough. 24.47.193.156 13:28, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
At the moment, he is more widely known as Victor Vancier, and therefore I believe it should remain as it is. There is no double standard or anti-semitism (I myself am Jewish). I possess absolutely no knowledge of the Nation of Islam or its leader, so you cannot expect me to edit their articles. --Nupractor 21:14, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
You just made that up. There is NO way of knowing if people know the name "Chaim Ben Pesach" or "Victor Vancier" more. Once more, even if you didn't previously know of Farrakhan's real name, you know now. Your unwillingness to edit his article speaks volumes of your own prejudices. 67.126.131.99 23:25, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
It seems that the amount of Google results has changed, but I am still unsure regarding which name should be used. --Nupractor 21:25, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why Can't We Edit References?

The References section is a real mess. Someone needs to delete all those pointless repetitions. Unfortunately, I don't know how to do this. KyZan 09:03, 16 May 2007 (UTC)KyZan

That ought to do it... GCarty 13:29, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] racism again

While I'm pretty sure this category belongs here, there is no sourced evidence within the article, so it has to be removed.--Sefringle 05:39, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Real organization

Nearly everything in the article is taken from the JTF website, which makes me doubt its accuracy. I've been wondering, are there any members of the Jewish Task Force besides Victor Vancier (AKA Chaim Ben Pesach), or is it a one-man organization? Also, does it truly exist outside its website, is there any evidence that the organization is involved in supporting and funding far right-wing organizations in Israel as it claims to be? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.228.94.70 (talk) 10:40, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of Chaim ben Pesach's page

It was a big mistake to remove Pesach's page. He is a very notable person for many reasons and I would like to see his page recreated and may do so myself. This article about Jewish Task Force and Ben Pesach is way to small considering the information available out there on both the group and ben Pesach.

Do you mind providing some references that don't include Kahanist websites? 83.130.227.243 17:50, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


This aritlce should be deleted. 72.92.13.9 (talk) 01:59, 13 December 2007 (UTC) Why? 84.228.68.238 (talk) 08:04, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Victor Vancier has called for Ron Paul supporters to be put to death

I'm wondering if anyone agrees that this should be worked into the article: http://youtube.com/watch?v=BtLa9Q6xW-8 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.241.198.109 (talk) 07:58, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

That was taken out of context.--69.234.179.16 (talk) 22:05, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Does this guy opperate out of Fresh Meadows, Queens on Queens public television? This guy is a fucking shrew.

[edit] New section on Jews Against Obama

This article should include an additional entry on the JTF's most recent activity as "Jews Against Obama", as that is what is now most prominent on their web site. Additional attention should be paid to their role in spreading the "Obama Smear". Some of this can be confirmed in Pesach's video rants. In this one, he links Obama to Jesse Jackson and Farrakhan [2] and in this one, he openly states that Obama is a Muslim, even though it's well known that he's a Christian[3].Jemiljan (talk) 04:25, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Here is the link to the Jews Against Obama blog: jewagainstobama.wordpress.com. As for the links to Jesse Jackson and Farrakhan, I've heard rumors that there's a connection between Jeremiah Wrong and Farrakhan, and that's where Jesse Jackson and the rest come in. As for "it's well known that he's a Christian" here are Obama's pastor's rants: youtube.com/watch?v=vdJB-qkfUHc. Doesn't sound like Christianity to me. --69.234.213.239 (talk) 15:40, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] HaYamin HaAmiti

This guy lives in Fresh Meadows,Queens. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FlushinQwnzNyc (talk • contribs) 17:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Chaim Ben Pesach

The guy is a hater and a racist.If he wasn't Jewish people would call him a nazi. He also has a terrorist past and he served few years in prison for his deeds.Most of the members of the JTF are racists.--(GriffinSB) (talk) 22:43, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you have any reliable sources on this? If not, that shouldn't be worked into the article.--69.234.213.239 (talk) 15:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
There are references in some of the above discussions, but the links are all broken at the moment since the site is down. 84.228.87.105 (talk) 20:16, 19 May 2008 (UTC)