User talk:Jessemonroy650

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/archive (001) June, 2006 - July 27, 2006 /archive (002) July 28, 2006 - August 15, 2006

Contents

[edit] Fraser Gold Rush map thing

Hi; I'd love to find/scan a map. I have a vintage one which would be public-domain/scannable but the book layout splits the map on the binding; I'll have to find an unbound original. Ideally the map would show some of the major "bars" and trails, rather than the modern one; but yeah, at least a location map. this article was written as a near-stub and I haven't been back to it in a while; I was waiting until I got my butt to work on the Fraser Canyon War, David Spintlum and related bio articles, but I haven't found my focus for that yet.Skookum1 16:39, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Responses of Germany and Japan to World War II crimes

Hi, I've listed the page for deletion here. Please express your opinion. Also please add to your watch list so you can contribute to other responses - thanks. John Smith's 11:41, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Are you going to come along? You said you would when I last mentioned it. John Smith's 18:07, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Hi, someone's causing trouble on the deletion listing and is pretending you didn't want to change your vote to indicate it should be merged - he's trying to use it as a means of saying there's no consensus. Could you come over and sort this out if the article isn't closed first? Thanks, John Smith's 21:48, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry to jerk you around again! The discussion isn't closed, so perhaps you should change your vote to "delete/merge". That way it will increase the case for deletion but merger will occur if that won't. John Smith's 10:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your uploaded pics

Hi. I had a quick look at those pics of yours you uploaded, listed on your user page. Some of them aren't in use and don't really have any use for wikipedia. I think you should list the orphaned pictures for deletion yourself. John Smith's 12:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ohlone

Sure, no problem! Thanks for your efforts to improve the article. —Khoikhoi 07:01, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] disputed tag in Salmon#Salmon_as_food

I have removed your disputed tag from the article as you make no mention of your dispute in the edit summary nor in the talk page. If you add it back in, please explain why in the Talk page. — ceejayoz talk 21:14, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Transistor

With regard to your addition to the transistor article: you did fine! Carry on being bold!

Atlant 16:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. meatclerk 16:06, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vornado

Yessir, will do. - CrazyRussian talk/email 19:09, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Quite sarcastic. Basically there's quite enough. Consumer reports cover their products, which is a major component of WP:CORP, there are many magazine features of their fans, as listed on their site, their fans were apparently heavily promoted at VMA's, and that's about all I could find. I am not sure how much of this belongs in the articles (prob. little) but it makes a good case against deletion. - CrazyRussian talk/email 13:30, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Access Television Network

As I wrote in one of my edit summaries, the company is more of a telecommunications carrier which transports video programming than a traditional network, but it's big enough to be notable. The Hoover's page is not trivial. The Lyngsat one appears to be, but it provides the key information about the satellite used by Access Television Network, and that satellite name is linked to a page providing comprehensive information about the satellite. The article isn't a vanity article. It has been edited by several different editors since it was created, and I think it represents a neutral point of view. --TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 00:27, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] World Animal Foundation

I e-mailed the organization shortly after our first conversation. I haven't gotten any response. In addition I haven't been able to find any reliable sources on my own. I'm sure I've heard of them before, but without reliable sources I can't change the article from sounding like an ad to something actually encyclopedic. I copied the article to my userspace so I could work on it, but without any new information the version in my userspace is still essentially the same as the one in the mainspace.

Why don't you prod it, and then if new information ever comes up I can work on it in userspace and then when its ready ask an admin to do a history un-delete and merge. ~ ONUnicorn (Talk / Contribs) 18:27, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ohlone

Thank you so much for the Ohlone research scanned pages, thank you so much for the scans! As soon as I have time I will try to help review the facts and try to get Ohlone page in "a better state", maybe this weekend is a good time. Goldenrowley 15:48, 21 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Bayside salmon?

I cannot imagine any creek in the bay did not have a salmon run. I grew up next to a tiny nameless creek on Puget Sound, barely three feet wide and a hundred yards long. Even *it* had a own salmon run. Prior to human interference, I am certain that salmon would have run up every creek, even creeks barely wet enough to swim. BruceHallman 15:31, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Monterey Clipper

Nice article. This sentence needs some clarity:

The feluccas were at first used to gather shrimp in the SF bay, but when this fishery was abandoned the Chinese, they gillnetted for local bay fish, trolled for ocean fish, and pulled up the famous Dungeness crabs.

Does it mean: [The feluccas were at first used to gather shrimp in the SF bay, but when this fishery was abandoned by the Chinese, they gillnetted for local bay fish, trolled for ocean fish, and pulled up the famous Dungeness crabs.] and if it does, the "abandoned...Chinese" doesn't fit logically with they [remained] to gillnet.... Or do I completely have the wrong idea?

Also, a very small point but proper, when you use a hyphen to set an interruption into a sentence, you should use an m-dash without spaces fore and aft such as "the boat—it's a great looking vessel, isn't it?—cruises well for its size". You place the m-dash into the sentence by using "& [ampersand]mdash;"[without spaces and without the word "ambersand"]. Outlook 13:00, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Salmon

I'm assuming this is your article. It's mature grammatically. I'm a bit confused by your reference to whitling here:

"When fish return for the first time they are called whitling in the UK"

Are they called something else somewhere else? If so, could that be noted in the same sentence? Outlook 13:36, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Salmon

Yes, it does answer my question. Another question on another topic: At what point does one remove the copyedit tag? I have been led to believe from Wikipedia that it should be removed once assured that all is right grammatically, usage, etc., and then factual accuracy is covered under the other tags. Is that correct? I've been removing the tag under that condition. Outlook 19:32, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] When to delete copyedit tag?

For articles other than yours, when should I delete the copyedit tag? I have been led to believe from Wikipedia that it should be deleted. To what extent is it a judgement call? Thanks! Outlook 14:23, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copy edit tags

All tags are at the discreetion(sp?) of the editor. ... Does this answer your question? --meatclerk 06:04, 2 October 2006 (UTC) Yes. Thanks. Outlook 11:41, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Britannia Beach

Yes, I can add references but it will take a little while as I am very busy these days with other work.

I added to the page because the material the addition replaced was inaccurate and incomplete.

- Millenia BB


Thanks for your input - I will add references (citations) when I have time soon.

Just wondering - what do you find inflamatory about what I added?

Perhaps I should change the words "behind closed doors" to "in camera".

[edit] Re: Yrjö Kilpinen

Hi, in response to your query, I'm certain that the spelling of the name was a typo. Things like his date of birth and style of composition did match in the Finnish wikipedia, but now that you mentioned it, I did expand it a bit from the German Wikipedia and another source. The amount of works he composed was wrong in your reference since he seems to have continued working after the book was written. Sorry for not checking earlier, the subject's not really that close to my heart. You can expand it more from the reference if you feel like it. - Bobet 09:52, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] =Notes on Ohlone

I have Milliken on order from the library, thanks for offering to share though! Wow you have a note taking program that's nice. Goldenrowley 15:30, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I am curious why you say the Ohlone were not 'technically' hunter-gatherers? BruceHallman 17:45, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Jeremy, sorry if any work was inadvertantly lost if we were both working on the same section yesterday, I was not aware of it I did have it open for maybe an hour trying to think what to replace Ishi with. I pick up Milliken on my way home from work tonight. Thank you for the notes on the population from Cook. Goldenrowley 15:47, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scott Peterson

Well, hyperbole is a secondary statement, but my main point is that it is a point of view statement, something that doesn't need to be stated. "Ironic" is good enough. Don't forget that we are an encyclopedia, and we try to maintain a Neutral point of view at all times. --Deathphoenix ʕ 01:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi, meatclerk, thanks for your proposal. You want to use "Incongruously" meaning that the details are different from the real Scott Peterson? I'm not sure if this is the right word. I'm still in favour of not using an adverb at all, but if you want to use an adverb, I'd be more in favour of "Coincidentally", because it is really a coincidence that Scott Peterson is mentioned in Demolition Man. In fact, I'd be in favour of using "coincidentally" instead of the first mention of the word "Ironically", since irony doesn't aptly describe this situation. If, by "incongruously" you meant to describe the details in the numbered list, some of those details describe the differences between the real Scott Peterson and the situation presented in the movie, but not all, so I'm not sure if "The incongruous details include:" would be a correct use either. I'm in favour of keeping the text as simple as possible while still being descriptive enough to capture your full meaning.
For convenience, I'll list the old versions and my two proposals below:
The original version before I edited it is this:
  • "Scott Peterson" is ironically listed as one of the cryo-prisoners in 2023 San Angeles. Truely bizzare and ironic, the name is listed on a screen for the MORNING HEARING SCHEDULE, which is in the opening schemes. The bizzare details include:
I changed it to this:
  • "Scott Peterson" is ironically listed as one of the cryo-prisoners in 2023 San Angeles. The name is listed on a screen for the MORNING HEARING SCHEDULE, which is in the opening schemes. The bizzare details include:
I think the best way to modify this while still retaining a neutral point of view is to use "Coincidentally" without additional rhetoric. I have two proposals based on where to place the word "Coincidentally":
  • "Scott Peterson" is coincidentally listed as one of the cryo-prisoners in 2023 San Angeles. The name is listed on a screen for the MORNING HEARING SCHEDULE, which is in the opening schemes. The details include:
  • "Scott Peterson" is listed as one of the cryo-prisoners in 2023 San Angeles. Coincidentally, the name is listed on a screen for the MORNING HEARING SCHEDULE, which is in the opening schemes. The details include:
Of course, I think whatever we agree on, we'll modify the wording of the Scott Peterson article to be consistent with this one. Thoughts? --Deathphoenix ʕ 19:16, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi meatclerk, I'd call it coincidence because Demolition Man was made before Scott Peterson committed his crime. Because of this, all details of Scott Peterson in the movie are also coincidence, which is why I'd prefer that term to "bizarre". Or perhaps I'm not fully understanding your point... --Deathphoenix ʕ 20:43, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Insectary_plants#Section_on_Pest_Deterrence

please check that talk page. thanks, --Cacuija (my talk) 07:34, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Palestinian immigration (Israel) restored

This article has been restored after its deletion was contested at Wikipedia:Deletion review. As you nominated the article to be deleted via WP:PROD, you may wish to nominate the article for a full deletion discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. --Sam Blanning(talk) 16:07, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Access Television Network

I added two references to this article. I also found that the company has a separate web site, http://www.buyitonaccess.com/ , for buying products advertised on its network. I considered adding it under "External links", but decided not to since some people might consider it spam. If you think it would be appropriate, please go ahead and add it. --TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 22:36, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you from Ohlone country

Thank you Jesse (meatclerk) for all your work and help and resources, sorry if at first I called you Jeremey, how embarassing for me, thanks you motivated me to write and think more than I would have on my own.Goldenrowley 16:33, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I received your message, thanks, I was working on info boxes and mythology all night last night on other people groups. I came across a good Wikipedia ethnic article outline last (what to cover, suggested headings to use) that might help Ohlone talk page. Are you ready for a new talk page? I am ready to let the old list go and only concentrate on what's unanswered or undone. I will propose some new outline topics later on. Goldenrowley 16:09, 24 October 2006 (UTC) Add that I'll read your new ideas later I am just overly extended right now.Goldenrowley 16:49, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks I just finished reading and working with the latest scratchpad introductiom > I think I was harried last night. Goldenrowley 04:08, 25 October 2006 (UTC) OH.. now that I know the meaning of harried, not by you, I thought I was saying I was working hard, hard working.

[edit] How to tackle them

Hi J your busted! Trying to make up a word. Just kidding. Did you see the next round in the Introduction scratch pad? Its still rough but we are starting to cover new ground. Also I plan to trial run the topics I listed as missing: their religion and their modern day. Goldenrowley 04:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi. I have reached the "most" of my abilities to program HTML, go ahead and fix the legend of the word box on Ohlone or other HTML concerns, I'd love if the Ohlone template at bottom was a small flattened menu like I've seen others do them, but I don't know how. I don't plan more graphic design, that hurdle is done! Re: The mention of Gusku. I know a little about Gusku (see coverage in Pomo mythology if you are interested) but I dont want to talk off the top my head on Costanoan without sources. Goldenrowley 16:20, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok I am intrigued are you writing a new page called salmon mythology you will link it to? Good luck! ...oh and dont worry I am a graphic designer with some html I won't overdue Ohlone designwork. I may search for a royalty free people picture to add though. Goldenrowley 22:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the sources you don't happen to have Theodore Kroeber Almost Ancestors do you? I need to verify the creation myth. I am curious why you decided to take out the quote from Brown on the burnt fields after you spent so much time researching it, it is specific to the Ohlone, did notyou want it? Also curious why you felt necessary to put back Cook's quote. Cook was a generalist. In any case I'll leave it up to you (but I suggest the Brown quote is specific to Ohlone and interesting while Cook quote is generic).Goldenrowley 04:03, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your reply! I was trying to see what you wanted to do with certain details where I did not have a clear idea. For me, just using the ethnic page template as a guideline of topics for recent additions. Having finished "religion" today I do Not anything else planned at the moment but to followup on the unfinished questions. Goldenrowley 08:09, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi not problem, it is a nice bio article. Goldenrowley 17:06, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Jesse, I think one of your wishes materialized ! see.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_of_Native_California Goldenrowley 20:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Jesse, no need to thank me.... someone else invented the California Native population article! I'll load some quotes to Salmon talk when I get some time. 03:50, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your Cabal Case

Hi. I've agreed to mediate your dispute with Stu-Rat regarding the Demolition Man (film) trivia section. I'm going to do some research on the talk page over there, but feel free to leave me a message either here or on my talk page (left arrow in my sig) to tell me what you want to get out of the mediation. For your reference, your Cabal request is located here. →Bobby← 20:13, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Appologies

I looked thru my edit history and noticed when dealing with you civility was at an all time low. I appologise for my behaviour towards you, you are a good contributor to Wikipedia.--I'll bring the food 20:27, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Faxon Dean Atherton

Hi there! I noticed you started a page on Atherton. I had a bunch of data combed from various web sites and such and decided to add it. OK not the stuff of master class research, but I thought it would be a useful summary of the easily available information. Right now there are two different intro paragraphs, yours with the references and mine without. I thought I would give you first crack at consolidating them. :-) imars 15:31, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you /re Cook

Hi thnak you for the new myth notes, is super organized of you. On giving a full citations on the Ohlone page starting with Cook: are you taking the initiative on that one, or should I? Goldenrowley 21:46, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi! I found some of the new person's Ohlone additions were trying fill in out our requested citations. Obviously they meant very well and abiding by the rules of citation, just don't know the html tagging syste. Since I've already put an hour into it you might not need to revert things. I was just about to remove the uncited and detrimental carefully which is a kind way of dealing with new people. Goldenrowley 04:05, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Aside from user talk pages and article discussion pages, there is no other way you could get a new person's attention. I did however just send the new person the same greeting and instructions I received when I joined. Goldenrowley 05:19, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi ya. Well on handling the Ohlone page my suggestion is: I know you're taking an active leadership role and its hard to manage a politically charged page. My suggestion would be take a breather, give time for people to cite their sources, they may just need a nudge in the right direction. For example, I appreciate that I was allowed time to prove there were ducks. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars. Goldenrowley 20:56, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Ohlone

Hi, It looks like your a little exasperated with me please forgive that I copy edit so much, writing is a hard and laborious process for me, at times. It is of course not my intention to "drive you nuts" this is only an attempt to write and finish the article in the most thorough and professional English. In my defense I think I am adding a lot of good research here, I've got my four books checked out from the library and read them, mostly cover to cover. I added some topics I thought were basic to a cultural/historical discussion, and have pretty much reached the end of my goal. I've been writing slowly, and carefully from the sources (although I can be blind to some of my own errors) ...On new people, I don't understand where a convention was trashed by new person, I actually liked their additions this week... You've said a lot more and concluded we should accommodate each other's work... and on that, I can agree. Respectfully, Goldenrowley 03:14, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable... maybe not to you

Thanks for reviewing a couple of my new articles about footballers, but they are notable, according to WP:BIO : Articles about first team squad members who have not made a first team appearance may also be appropriate, but only if the individual is at a club of sufficient stature that most members of its squad are worthy of articles. The Fremantle Football Club is a fully professional league at the highest possible level of Australian Rules Football. It's squad is limited to 44 players and this person has just been drafted to that squad. All other existing members of its squad have articles, so he qualifies. The-Pope 10:51, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dating tags

Hi, you don't have to worry about dating tags, a robot will come along at least daily to do this. However if you do, please put just the month and year e.g.November 2006, as this corresponds to the sub-categories that the articel will be put in. Many thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 16:56 29 November 2006 (GMT).

[edit] Hideaway Park, Colorado

Please do not restore PROD tags. The idea of proposed deletion is that anyone can object, and then it has to go through AFD. In any case, if you think there is no information in that article that is not in Winter Park, Colorado, it should be redirected, not deleted. --NE2 05:47, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TFD Rafik Djebbour

Hello, Thank you for reviewing this new article. I added several items to the orginal article and believe that it meets the notability criteria under WP:BIO for footballers. This player has appeared in the first team for several top-flight football clubs and even has received a call up to the full Algeria national team. Is it okay if I remove the TFD tag? Best regards. Jogurney 06:16, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your help. I realize there is some controversy regarding notability on sportspeople (there is some disagreement even among the WP:Football Project team -[[1]]). However, I think its fair to say any player who plays for the senior national team is notable. By the way, I also noticed that you reviewed the Lazhar Hadj Aïssa article and added a TFD tag for notability. I think Hadj Aissa is also notable for the same reasons as Djebbour and was hoping you would agree to remove the TFD tag. Best regards. Jogurney 06:42, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Award

The Original Barnstar
For hard work on Ohlone and ethnohistorian biographical articles. Goldenrowley 22:56, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gartner

I've added the "{{prod}}" template to the article Gartner, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, or, if you disagree with the notice, discuss the issues at Talk:Gartner. You may remove the deletion notice, and the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached, or if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria. TheRingess 05:34, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

It's at AfD now. NickelShoe (Talk) 04:42, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aaron Gray

Well, I had thought that specifying the result on the talk page was enough, but I suppose one could always be a little bit clearer =) I'll do that on further AfDs. Thanks for the advice! –Larry V (talk | contribs) 21:12, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bustos Media LLC

Hi Jesse, Hope you are doing great and that you have a good editing year in 2007. Listen, I just created the article Bustos Media LLC and wondered if you could help out in its development? I sure could use the help.PEACETalkAbout 07:06, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Hi Jesse, where are you? I miss the contributions! ... I took a stab at your stub Olompali Park & think I'll take a field trip there soon to snap a picture because its in the area. I stopped writing anything new for Ohlone & would love to do a peer review soon? ..& Please forigve if I misunderstood the last requests you made, when you said "get Levy" I thought you meant I should go out and get Levy and fix the article, so thats why I made some last minute changes on language and that citation errors, per a former editor, should be corrected immediately whenever found? Goldenrowley 04:32, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: High time before 1849... I hope the article goes well, that's a good idea, publish something that Wikipedia can someday quote....Ohlone waits your okayon the talk page I want it to be a consensus and everyone to be happy. Goldenrowley 04:13, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Invitation

Hello – Based on your significant contribution to one or more San Francisco Bay Area-related articles and/or stated interests on your homepage, I thought you might be interested in this project:

You have been invited to join the WikiProject San Francisco Bay Area, a collaborative effort focused on improving Wikipedia's coverage of the Bay Area. If you'd like to join, just add your name to the member list. Thanks for reading!

Peter G Werner 04:27, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good link

Hi based on our mutual work on Ohlone I thought you might like this page link: salvage ethnography as a possible place to expand, elaborate, and link many California articles to. No pressure of course ! Just seemed up your alley. Goldenrowley 03:33, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ohlone, reply

Hi! ... not sure you got my message on my talk page so letting you know I replied to you on my talk page...Thanks for offering a book, however, I will be going to Europe this month, so better not borrow any thing right now. Thanks! Goldenrowley 20:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] re:Hey

Please remain civil. Your insults are completely uncalled for. Furthermore, next time wait until you're ready to edit before doing so. Your initial edit added no content, and the removal of it was justified. Also, please sign your posts using four tildes (~~~~). faithless (speak) 04:52, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Again, I would ask that you refrain from personal attacks. I have in no way wronged you, and your behavior is completely inappropriate. If you feel that I have in some way wronged you, be assured it was not intentional. But please, let's be mature about it. Name calling and insults have no place on Wikipedia. faithless (speak) 05:05, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] USS Thagard NCC-652

You added USS Thagard NCC-652 into List of United States Navy ships, T. The USS Thagard NCC-652 is a fictional ship, and even in fiction, it belongs to Starfleet, not the United States Navy. Were you aware of this when you added it? I do not believe it should be listed there. JIP | Talk 21:50, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New materials

Welcome back. I read your new material thanks for letting me know!Goldenrowley 03:57, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:100_0386.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:100_0386.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Videmus Omnia Talk 15:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AfD nomination of World civil war (concept)

An article that you have been involved in editing, World civil war (concept), has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/World civil war (concept). Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Ecoleetage (talk) 02:09, 5 June 2008 (UTC)