Talk:Jesus is Lord

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See Talk:Slogan 'Jesus is Lord'/Delete for an archived discussion about the deletion of this page.

  • This entry is something of misnomer. These 'sayings' or 'slogans' are historically called creed. Among these, this one is notably short and ambiguous, one main reason that it was accepted by the ecumenically-oriented WCC. Philip Taron 23:30, 16 Oct 2003 (UTC)

The term 'lord' applied frequently in Eastern Mediterranean regions to local gods. In a number or Semitic languages the word for lord was ba'al, and prophets in the Hebrew Bible frequently rebuked those who worshipped 'Baal' or 'Baals'.

A particularly famous 'lord' is baal zebub, 'lord of flies'. This has come into English as 'Beelzebub'.

I'm not sure what the above is about. Is it meant to suggest that calling Jesus "Lord" is somehow blasphemous or otherwise against the Jewish scripture?

If so, good! Please tell us some more about how Jewish people (both laity and theologians) regard the "Jesus is Lord" thing!! --Uncle Ed 00:41, 27 Sep 2003 (UTC)


The stuff about Baal is just wrong. The new testament greek word usually translated 'Lord' in 'Jesus is Lord' is 'kyrios'. In the OT I believe it is usually either 'Adonai' or the name of God himself.

"When the early Christians referred to or confessed Jesus Christ as "Lord" (as occurs scores of times in the New Testament) what did they mean? What was the theological content of this appellation or confession? The root meaning of the Greek term kyrios was "legitimate authority," and this meaning carried into New Testament usage."

http://www.founders.org/FJ06/article1_fr.html

DJ Clayworth 20:22, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)


Removed references to Evangleicals and Fundamentalists. Most Christians regard Jesus Christ as God. It's a cornerstone of the faith. DJ Clayworth 20:49, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)


In what way is "Jesus is Lord" offensive? DJ Clayworth 13:21, 14 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I think it is because in the phrase it is implied that those of all other religions are wrong. Or it is considered to inflammatory. Or it is like the word "fuck", some think it is offensive and the rest of us can never figure out why. BL 13:38, 14 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Bigots find lots of things offensive; I don't know why their opinions deserve to be mentioned in the article. Why don't we go around to every article on a religious topic, ethnic group, country, etc, and write "Some people are horribly offended by this religion/race/country" on it? No...better to delete this article altogether, which is why I just listed it on VfD. If this topic is really central to Christianity, then it deserves a paragraph in Christianity, and if it is even more important than that it deserves a proper article with a proper name, like Christian doctrine of Jesus as Lord. Zero0000

Way to raise the temperature of the discussion, Zero. Seriously though, although I disagree with the tone of the above, the content has merit. Just because someone disagrees with a statement does not make it offensive. Otherwise pretty much any statement could be offensive. In fact calling the statement offensive might itself be offensive, because it implies Christianity is wrong :-) DJ Clayworth 14:30, 14 Oct 2003 (UTC)

My understanding is that the slogan "Jesus is LORD" affirms that Jesus Christ is identical with the god Yahweh of Judaism. As such it was considered blasphemy by non-Christian Jews at the time St. Paul was writing. This is the sense in which it was "offensive." -- Smerdis of Tlön 01:54, 15 Oct 2003 (UTC)

And to deny that Jesus is God is also blasphemy from a Christian point of view. Pick any page with religious content and imagine what it would be like if we added "This is considered offensive" every time a statement was made that another religion disagreed with. DJ Clayworth 13:08, 15 Oct 2003 (UTC)

can we delete this sentence altogether now? No. Good NPOV writing tries to show the different points of view. Kingturtle 02:43, 15 Oct 2003 (UTC)

True, but showing only the extreme points of view is not good NPOV writing. It is also terrible NPOV writing to use "some people" to express an opinion; each opinion should belong to some identifiable person or group. Far too often on WP, "some people believe" is a code for "I believe", and in many other cases it is mere laziness. The other reason I want to delete the sentence is that everyone with enough brain to find Wikipedia already knows that some people are offended by other peoples religious slogans. It is patronising to our readers to spell out universal everyday knowledge. --Zero 14:35, 15 Oct 2003 (UTC)
The phrase is Christianity's common denominator, all Christians agree to it and anyone who doesn't cannot be a Christian.
How is that an incorrect asumption? BL 08:30, 15 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Some Christians do not agree to it. Kingturtle 21:49, 15 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Which Christians do not? BL 10:54, 17 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I've removed the offending phrase temporarily, not to stifle debate but because what was there at the moment was a mockery. We can put something back if we decide to. DJ Clayworth 13:18, 16 Oct 2003 (UTC)


Now we've decided to keep this, I suggest it goes back to 'Jesus is Lord' rather than 'Slogan:'. It's importance is as a creed rather than a slogan, unless I've misunderstood what Slogan means. DJ Clayworth 17:19, 27 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I'm restoring my text that Ed Poor removed and put on this page, since no real objection was made to it. I think the fact that the semitic term for lord was frequently used as a name for local gods in the ancient middle east is significant. DJ Clayworth is completely wrong. The terms Adonai and YHWY are names for God in the Old testament; they do not mean 'lord', which was a secular term that was adapted to address gods. 'Kyrios' is Greek for Lord, but the Greek word for God is 'theos'.

                                      -User:66.190.242.110, 8  December, 2003
It was objected to and you did not respond. First why is it necessary or useful in this article? Second is it even correct? Beside how can DJ Clayworth be wrong when he said exactly the same thing that you did -Lord is Greek kyrios in this phrase and the Old Testament used Adonai or the name of God/YHWY instead. No difference here. Your addition seems to imply that the phrase is "Jesus is Lord (Baal)", not as is correct, "Jesus is Lord (kyrios)". Rmhermen 06:42, Dec 9, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Slogan 'Jesus is Lord' → Jesus is Lord – There is no need for "slogan." The expression is sufficient for article title, and is the way Wikipedia articles should be named. For example "Cat" not "Animal cat."

[edit] Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
Done. —Nightstallion (?) 09:12, 13 June 2006 (UTC)